Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[drizgirl]

We were there from 12/20 - 12/24. Everyone that I saw enjoyed Moana and left with a smile, even my two teenage kids. To each their own I suppose but looked to be a success from what I saw.

I'm sure it's nice for what it is. But it shouldn't have taken multiple years to complete, even in a pandemic. And it should be filler, not a destination attraction.

 

[Ayla]

Wow, a little sensitive.

Being called out on hypocrisy makes some defensive.

Though my post being called a "diatribe" by the King of Diatribes was an awesome way to end 2023.

 

[Disone]

I use to love churros. They are absolute trash and borderline inedible now

For a hot minute or two the out doors food at the hub near lib tree entrance had a almost Disneyland quality churro. They put it in the churro toaster as you ordered and it fell in the cinnamon sugar coating after going through the toaster.

And though the toaster remain the reverted back to preheated churros from somewhere backstage that are under a heat lamp and by the time you order them are about as stale as can be.

Not Disney's ood and beverages the best moment for sure.

 

[Disone]

Wow. I am honestly a bit surprised that even in this economy, there is still that much left during "hell week" for crowds. Then again, I am probably a bit silly for even being surprised.

There is almost always availability Christmas week at Walt Disney World, at least in the deluxes. It's a rare year that those are sold out during the holiday week. Peak pricing ensures if they do not sell out in hotels have plenty of flexible inventory to play with so that they can handle any emergency that they might have in all those lovely accountants and executives and team Disney Orlando can all take the holiday off knowing that the peak season rates will offset any occupancy and the occupancy will allow the hotels to handle any emergency. This is just my theory by the way. Your mileage will vary.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wow, a little sensitive.

…I’m the least sensitive person here…

But that was stupid.

Here’s the way I see it: I’ve dumped so much into the operation over the years - I’ll kindly reserve the right to be honest about it.

What that also gives me a free pass out of is being lectured by people who defend the name and the “idea” of Disney and seldom actually consume it.

If you need to motivate yourself to pay for or pack a suitcase to go on vacation - so be it. I leave those types alone and they can ask “how magical is port?” To their hearts content over on the dust anonymous threads…but stay in your lane.

I don’t hate it…it needs to be better. Because over time you become “far-sighted” about Disney parks due to how they’re being run. They’re not being run very well.

And aud lang sign language…and all that

 

[ChrisRobin124]

…I’m the least sensitive person here…

But that was stupid.

Here’s the way I see it: I’ve dumped so much into the operation over the years - I’ll kindly reserve the right to be honest about it.

What that also gives me a free pass out of is being lecturing by people who defend the name and the “idea” of Disney and seldom actually consume it.

If you need to motivate yourself to pay for or pack a suitcase to go on vacation - so be it. I leave those types alone and they can ask “how magical is port?” To their hearts content over on the dust anonymous threads…but stay in your lane.

I don’t hate it…it needs to be better. Because over time you become “far-sighted” about Disney parks due to how they’re being run. They’re not being run very well.

And aud lang sign language…and all that

I have to say...I rarely post but have mainly been a lurker for years who mainly liked to read @WDW1974 Posts. But I will say that @Sirwalterraleigh I really enjoy your posts and candor. Even as an oldtimer (DVC since 1993).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I have to say...I rarely post but have mainly been a lurker for years who mainly liked to read @WDW1974 Posts. But I will say that @Sirwalterraleigh I really enjoy your posts and candor. Even as an oldtimer (DVC since 1993).

Much appreciated

…you can love something and NOT want to see it cheapen, fail, or embarrass itself.

They are not mutually exclusive concepts.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We were there from 12/20 - 12/24. Everyone that I saw enjoyed Moana and left with a smile, even my two teenage kids. To each their own I suppose but looked to be a success from what I saw.

Don’t misunderstand me…I think it is well done for what it is…

But years of construction? An “attraction”?

No

There weren’t that many people walking through it yesterday…and if you look at the calendar…it definitely was crowded

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Side note…I’m noticing some of the “insider” sites and bloggers are talking “down year” for 2024…
So something is up. Ironically 2023 was down by quite a bit in the whole.

The forecasts are known well in advance.

 

[Po'Rich]

They’re not being run very well.

At the risk of jumping into something and really wishing I hadn't, is this statement true? I've read a lot of the criticism that is written on these forums, and I have contributed to some of it myself (mostly about WDW becoming too expensive for average people), but is it accurate to say that the parks are not run well? Note, this isn't the same as saying that we wish they were run better in one way or another or even in looking back and saying the discontinuation of that this or that service has detracted from the experience.

Is it true that the parks are not run well by the standards of general amusement parks? Is Disney no longer the gold standard, and if so, what park(s) have replaced them?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Even if there is a Disney spreadsheet somewhere that indicates the attendance is “lower” relative to years past, we all know it’s MOBBED for NYE.

I would love to see the spreadsheet that shows the prices for everything today and the number of cast members on duty today compared to years past.

Success or failure of the parks should not be measured in attendance. Success or failure should be measured by the guest experience; guest satisfaction.

Having said that, Disney can spin up any survey results they want saying anything they want.

The parks were definitely thick…

But still a lot of dining out there and the wait times were inflated beyond ridiculous again

So that’s 4 days in a row we witnessed…anecdotally.

It sucks im so miserable…but it always seems like I handle the “mobs” with little issue

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

At the risk of jumping into something and really wishing I hadn't, is this statement true? I've read a lot of the criticism that is written on these forums, and I have contributed to some of it myself (mostly about WDW becoming too expensive for average people), but is it accurate to say that the parks are not run well? Note, this isn't the same as saying that we wish they were run better in one way or another or even in looking back and saying the discontinuation of that this or that service has detracted from the experience.

Is it true that the parks are not run well by the standards of general amusement parks? Is Disney no longer the gold standard, and if so, what park(s) have replaced them?

The maintenance is atrocious…breakdowns are frequent and lengthening…

But I talk more strategic…not tactical on the ground.

They have NOTHING under construction to plan for the future…and you simply can expect increasing revenues…with stagnation for long periods. In one park…let alone 4.

Very bad management…but on the corporate level more than on the ground.

The things they don’t do now…will create tons of issues down the road.

 

[Po'Rich]

The maintenance is atrocious…breakdowns are frequent and lengthening…

But I talk more strategic…not tactical on the ground.

They have NOTHING under construction to plan for the future…and you simply can expect increasing revenues…with stagnation for long periods. In one park…let alone 4.

Very bad management…but on the corporate level more than on the ground.

The things they don’t do now…will create tons of issues down the road.

Thanks for the reply. I can definitely see your point. While there are rumors (perhaps even plans) for expansions in MK and changes in AK, there really isn't much going on now (and the time frames for construction are really long). I agree that there needs to be more investment if Walt Disney World is going to continue to be competitive with the top parks in the world.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Thanks for the reply. I can definitely see your point. While there are rumors (perhaps even plans) for expansions in MK and changes in AK, there really isn't much going on now (and the time frames for construction are really long). I agree that there needs to be more investment if Walt Disney World is going to continue to be competitive with the top parks in the world.

Well Bob also deliberately slow rolls everything - beyond more dvc with lessening demand for it…

“We’ll tell them “coming soon”…take 5 years to build…then we don’t have to do Anything for 10!”

No…genius…you used up what Mike gave you and have been playing catch for 10+ by choice…and it’s starting to “reap” what you sown

 

[Disstevefan1]

Wall Street and shareholders won't buy into this. Success or failure in a business like parks and resorts are measured by profits. Disney stock is tied into my 401K but I'm not walking on a tightrope without a net so its sandwiched into mutual funds I'm invested which have done very well long term.

Well yes, success is ultimately measured by profit. It seems Disney’s parks and resorts business knows this and the parks and resorts remain profitable regardless of the guest experience.

Too bad Disney doesn’t measure success this way in their “highly successful” movie business.

 

[_caleb]

Wall Street and shareholders won't buy into this. Success or failure in a business like parks and resorts are measured by profits. Disney stock is tied into my 401K but I'm not walking on a tightrope without a net so its sandwiched into mutual funds I'm invested which have done very well long term.

Seems to me that anyone with longer-term outlook will understand that customer satisfaction is the key to market share, which is what leads to solid performance and ultimate returns on the investment. I think fixation on short term metrics, like stock price fluctuations or the number of guests in the park on Christmas break are misguided.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Well Bob also deliberately slow rolls everything - beyond more dvc with lessening demand for it…

“We’ll tell them “coming soon”…take 5 years to build…then we don’t have to do Anything for 10!”

No…genius…you used up what Mike gave you and have been playing catch for 10+ by choice…and it’s starting to “reap” what you sown

And they are only going to feel the burn even more in 2025 when universal's next big park opens up. Between 3 land and another Harry Potter world, Universal will start turning into the main destination for many families instead of Disney.

 

[Disone]

And they are only going to feel the burn. Even lore in 2025 when universal's next big park opens up. Between 3 land and another Harry Potter world, Universal will start turning into the main destination for many families instead of Disney.

I hope you're right. I think this is needed to give Disney the wake-up call and self-realization that they've been phoning it in. But the same thing was said decades ago about IOA and that never came to fruition. Here's hoping EPIC is different.

For decades Disney has trained people that if Disney does it it must be thee best and now TDO takes advantage of legions and legions of individuals who believe just that and frankly won't even bother to check.

They come here with proverbial blinders on and they think, "Walt Disney World is just so extra magical during Christmas, so many Christmas trees." They don't even bother going to Universal or to SeaWorld or the Busch gardens to see what they're offerings are. And if they do, they are shocked.

" What are all these extra shows?".

" Look at all these amazing lights all over the park not just at the entrance!"

"Oh my god it's so much more holiday offerings here than it is at Walt Disney World."

But most don't. They've been trained that Disney is the best. No one can touch Disney. And Disney takes full advantage of this by totally phoning it in.

TDO two years ago: " Put up another Christmas tree, hang some garland over here, and let's put a holiday wreath up for good measure. it'll be fine."

They are doing the same with their attractions and their shows. And even worse, the corporate rot has gotten so bad that I don't think Disney realizes they're doing it. They may not even know how to turn it around even if they wanted to. The corporate rot is that bad.

TDO now : put up the Christmas tree, hang some garland over there, but we can save on some labor costs if we just leave the holiday Wreaths and some of the garland in storage and almost no one will notice".

Meanwhile the ' Disney is best" trained tourist : Disney is so amazing and nice, they know how busy Christmas week is and so they do for free all the holiday offerings, that they normally charge extra for during normal park operating hours. They're just amazing.

I still love the product. It is still Walt Disney World. And it is still an amazing place to come visit. But there's absolutely no denying it is also less then it used to be by always prioritizing the almighty wallet over everything else. Now if it's good enough for the competition it's good enough for Disney.

 

[KrzyKtty]

I hope you're right. I think this is needed to give Disney the wake-up call and self-realization that they've been phoning it in. But the same thing was said decades ago about IOA and that never came to fruition. Here's hoping EPIC is different.

For decades Disney has trained people that if Disney does it it must be thee best and now TDO takes advantage of legions and legions of individuals who believe just that and frankly won't even bother to check.

They come here with proverbial blinders on and they think, "Walt Disney World is just so extra magical during Christmas, so many Christmas trees." They don't even bother going to Universal or to SeaWorld or the Busch gardens to see what they're offerings are. And if they do, they are shocked.

" What are all these extra shows?".

" Look at all these amazing lights all over the park not just at the entrance!"

"Oh my god it's so much more holiday offerings here than it is at Walt Disney World."

But most don't. They've been trained that Disney is the best. No one can touch Disney. And Disney takes full advantage of this by totally phoning it in.

TDO two years ago: " Put up another Christmas tree, hang some garland over here, and let's put a holiday wreath up for good measure. it'll be fine."

They are doing the same with their attractions and their shows. And even worse, the corporate rot has gotten so bad that I don't think Disney realizes they're doing it. They may not even know how to turn it around even if they wanted to. The corporate rot is that bad.

TDO now : put up the Christmas tree, hang some garland over there, but we can save on some labor costs if we just leave the holiday Wreaths and some of the garland in storage and almost no one will notice".

Meanwhile the ' Disney is best" trained tourist : Disney is so amazing and nice, they know how busy Christmas week is and so they do for free all the holiday offerings, that they normally charge extra for during normal park operating hours. They're just amazing.

I still love the product. It is still Walt Disney World. And it is still an amazing place to come visit. But there's absolutely no denying it is also less then it used to be by always prioritizing the almighty wallet over everything else. Now if it's good enough for the competition it's good enough for Disney.

I do think Epic can be a game changer. I had the pleasure going to Nintendo world in Japan this past summer. OMG that park was awesome! We easily spent half the day in that one small area. Add to it the rumored Ministry of Magic from Harry Potter..., those two world alone can carry the entire park.

 

[Lilofan]

Well yes, success is ultimately measured by profit. It seems Disney’s parks and resorts business knows this and the parks and resorts remain profitable regardless of the guest experience.

Too bad Disney doesn’t measure success this way in their “highly successful” movie business.

John Lassiter was an accomplished exec for Pixar but his demons he battled with alcohol on the job at functions and womanizing on the job were his downfall that led to his departure even with a CM escorting him at work to assist him in not getting in these situations.