Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Trauma]

I don’t disagree with you…I see warning signs all over the place. But I always temper in that Disney gets propped up by its customers in Florida no matter how they dive bomb their heads…

You gotta see it…like when they “announce” rides…to believe it.

It will be interesting how it plays out.

Personally I hope Universal hits a home run with the new park.

Something to force Disney to get its act together.

Plus the more great theme parks the better.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Let’s pretend that the market bleed is only in its infancy.

Would you agree it’s safe to assume when the new park opens, that a greater portion of Florida travelers will choose to include a couple days at Universal?

What if those travelers have more fun and find better value at Universal?

They then return home and word of mouth starts to spread.

Maybe it’s 5-10 year process.

How much bleed can Disney withstand assuming that raising prices at a rapid pace can not be sustained forever?

If Disney starts to see significant bleed they have a lot of fairly easy and quick solutions, 90% of the complaints are about prices and crowd control schemes, not the physical parks so they could simply lower prices, remove reservations, offer AP discounts, bring back fan favorites like Magical Express, FP, etc and turn the tide.

Ideally we’d get new rides to counter Uni but that takes years, all the options I listed could be done in a matter of days and would result in increased visitation. Guest spending may take a hit but the parks make billions, they have profit to spare in case of emergency.

 

[Trauma]

If Disney starts to see significant bleed they have a lot of fairly easy and quick solutions, 90% of the complaints are about prices and crowd control schemes, not the physical parks so they could simply lower prices, remove reservations, offer AP discounts, bring back fan favorites like Magical Express, FP, etc and turn the tide.

Ideally we’d get new rides to counter Uni but that takes years, all the options I listed could be done in a matter of days and would result in increased visitation. Guest spending may take a hit but the parks make billions, they have profit to spare in case of emergency.

The Billions the parks make are what is keeping D+ afloat.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I see it as helping others plan their trips..and keep in check their expectations.

That’s…creative.

Yep 100%...and hence why we will never be coming back. Finally voting with our feet.

Is this trip almost over?

Once I've been to Tokyo Disney in January I will report back

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll find the ignore button long before January.

Here are some things you’re missing:

Others don’t care about what you complain about.

I am a FL resident with less than a 3 hour drive to the World - not exactly around the corner, but we can pretty much go whenever we want.

Therefore, we’ve done almost everything enough times. If something is down, I may not notice, or I’ll catch it next time. I absolutely don’t care.

My weekday annual “pixie” pass is something like $450(?) for the year. I don’t care.

I use points from our Chase Visa card to pay for all or most of our trips. I don’t care about the price of a snack or whatever. (The fee that annoyed me on principle was for parking at the hotel, which has been reversed.)

There was a time when wait times were more important (but manageable) and certain aspects were unaffordable and therefore higher stakes - so we had a blast with what we could afford.

If you’ve been so many times, I don’t understand why you don’t take it in stride like I do. You come across as seething.

And that’s the other difference between you and some other people: chosen perspectives, realistic expectations, and temperament.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If Disney starts to see significant bleed they have a lot of fairly easy and quick solutions, 90% of the complaints are about prices and crowd control schemes, not the physical parks so they could simply lower prices, remove reservations, offer AP discounts, bring back fan favorites like Magical Express, FP, etc and turn the tide.

Ideally we’d get new rides to counter Uni but that takes years, all the options I listed could be done in a matter of days and would result in increased visitation. Guest spending may take a hit but the parks make billions, they have profit to spare in case of emergency.

Well here is where I disagree.

They have really zero way to Handle their crowd flow/distribution problems

We are now in the “endgame” of bobs near 2 decades long failure to understand why and now how Disney parks operate. It took along time…but now it’s roosting

 

[Lilofan]

Well here is where I disagree.

They have really zero way to Handle their crowd flow/distribution problems

We are now in the “endgame” of bobs near 2 decades long failure to understand why and now how Disney parks operate. It took along time…but now it’s roosting

The one way which I think only happens 1x a year at Epcot is when there is cut through alleyways filled with planters by Mexico and Test Track. Both cut through areas gave us a sneak peak on the backstage areas and the sewage smell and sight of the garbage dumpster by the Mexico restaurant. This helps with the huge crowds on NYE with us and many others wearing our NYE hats .

 

[nickys]

A CM shared with us that entertainment cast at the Fantasmic gets paid their entire shift whether even if the show get cancelled day of. Florida being a lightning capital and one night the F! show got cancelled last minute with a full house of people sitting in the theatre with a far away lightning strike without a drop of rain but the show still was a no-go.

I understand the disappointment, but if there’s lightning within a certain radius then they have to cancel for safety reasons.

 

[Thepuma]

Went before the Covid outbreak.

Wow...thats quite a long long time ago - things have changed massively since then.

Our favorite times were around the last time you went and so, it explains why you don't get the vitriol towards Disney as you haven't witnessed first hand what's been happening.

 

[Thepuma]

I will not be one of the ones who skips Disney to go to Universal. My wife and I will be in Orlando in about a week. I bought the Disney 4 park, 4 day special for $99/day. I will also probably buy Genie+ for each of those days and maybe a few ILL.

However, all that added up doesn't even come close to what I paid for a one day park hopper ticket with Express Pass to Universal on the 30th. For the two of us it cost me $800 in tickets for one day there.

I always assumed that hardly anyone actually pays for the Universal Express pass, but those that have it are staying at their Premier Resorts and have them included.

Because if you're going to pay $800 for 1 day in Universal, you'd almost be better off booking the Hard Rock for around $500, getting 2 days Express pass free and buying a 2 day hopper ticket for Universal. May cost you around $200 more but you're getting the 2nd day for very little outlay.

That’s…creative.

Is this trip almost over?

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll find the ignore button long before January.

Here are some things you’re missing:

Others don’t care about what you complain about.

I am a FL resident with less than a 3 hour drive to the World - not exactly around the corner, but we can pretty much go whenever we want.

Therefore, we’ve done almost everything enough times. If something is down, I may not notice, or I’ll catch it next time. I absolutely don’t care.

My weekday annual “pixie” pass is something like $450(?) for the year. I don’t care.

I use points from our Chase Visa card to pay for all or most of our trips. I don’t care about the price of a snack or whatever. (The fee that annoyed me on principle was for parking at the hotel, which has been reversed.)

There was a time when wait times were more important (but manageable) and certain aspects were unaffordable and therefore higher stakes - so we had a blast with what we could afford.

If you’ve been so many times, I don’t understand why you don’t take it in stride like I do. You come across as seething.

And that’s the other difference between you and some other people: chosen perspectives, realistic expectations, and temperament.

Unfortunately burying your head in the sand isn't really a viable option if you want to advise others on the truth and reality of what's going on in Disneys Parks.

It's not all bad at all - Disney has some really good attractions that have been added in recent times - Remy,Rise,GotG, Tron....but by just addressing that and trying to quieten the voice of people who go to the parks regular and get the real story, is simply an uninformed way to make a point on Disneys Parks and how they run.

 

[Thepuma]

I understand the disappointment, but if there’s lightning within a certain radius then they have to cancel for safety reasons.

Point being...the forecast at 10am clearly stated there was going to be storms around 8pm/9pm - it never changed the whole day.

People were herded about like sheep ona very humid and hot evening. Many people queue jumping while the staff did nothing.

Why at 7.30pm they didn't just announce that due to weather it 'may be cancelled' and let people decide if its worth staying...instead they conned people to come into the park and wait in am hours queue by saying "if it rains it may be delayed"...which people took at facr value...ie if it rains we wait till its stopped and then continue....we were led a merry dance by Disney where they cancelled it at 8.29pm when the auditorium was jam packed.

To be honest, by that point in my holiday, I wasn't at all surprised with Disneys incompetence to manage the queue, the crowds and queue jumpers and the poor communication before the weather turned. And when the almost inevitable "tonight's show is cancelled" at 8.29pm I just thought...yep, why doesn't that surprise me....I almost chuckled to myself.

 

[Touchdown]

.

Why at 7.30pm they didn't just announce that due to weather it 'may be cancelled' and let people decide if its worth staying...instead they conned people to come into the park and wait in am hours queue by saying "if it rains it may be delayed"...which people took at facr value...ie if it rains we wait till its stopped and then continue....we were led a merry dance by Disney where they cancelled it at 8.29pm when the auditorium was jam packed.

Because Disney will try to put on the show at all costs, provided it starts before the contracted latest time their performers have in their contract the show can start. It’s the same at DLR with fireworks, if weather is too windy show gets delayed until it’s too late to shoot them off per Anaheim regulations.

Delayed means might be canceled, stay at your own risk. Always has, always will.

 

[RoadiJeff]

Well express pass is a much better product than G+ so makes sense that it costs more.

However it is included free with your deluxe resort room.

We're renting a 5 br house for $200 per night, about 14 minutes from the Magic Kingdom entrance. It was a special deal thru one of my coworkers who owns the rental house.

 

[eliza61nyc]

I don’t think anyone here with a straight face can say that they have the same level of enjoyment from they parks as they did 10 years ago.

Unless somehow a sharp decline in quality and value is something that appeals to them.

I can. I just returned Wednesday from a 9 day trip. Our trips are different from 10 years ago, for one thing our kids are no longer little. Now value depends on the person, so not going to get into that.

So yes I can say with a straight face that my family and I enjoy wdw aa much as we did 18 years ago when we became dvc members.
Now as a general rule I don't compare much of anything to "way back when". If I did I wouldn't get any enjoyment out of anything. I also went to Greece this year, was it the same as when I first went over 30 years ago?? Not at all.
And our very first trip when the kids was special. Nothing will compare to that so most folks don't compare.

We only did Genie plus one day out of the 7 park days but I can say I wasn't a fan buy that has not dimmed our enjoyment.

We're planning our next trip. Lol you do realize that there is a trip reports forum where hundreds of people are writing about their great vacations

I will say I totally miss Illuminations

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Went before the Covid outbreak.

Wow...thats quite a long long time ago - things have changed massively since then.

Our favorite times were around the last time you went and so, it explains why you don't get the vitriol towards Disney as you haven't witnessed first hand what's been happening.

@Lilofan the above is nonsense. I’ve been several times during and after, and it is not “changed massively.”

Other than new attractions and construction, the big change is Genie+ and LL. To date, we haven’t had a reason to use either. We were prepared to use it for Ratatouille not long after it opened, but came upon it with a 40 minute wait time that ended up closer to 30.

We pick attractions with shorter waits, but have other priorities.

Per usual, if you want to be miserable, you’ll find reasons. If you have a generally realistic and optimistic approach in life, you’ll have a great time as always.

Unfortunately burying your head in the sand

That’s not me - ever. Try again.

Your presumption of having visited more and knowing more than everyone here is not only obnoxious but incorrect. Don’t Disneysplain us.

Maybe I have a better time because, rather than burying my head in the sand, I just have a healthier approach to life in general.

 

[Jrb1979]

@Lilofan the above is nonsense. I’ve been several times during and after, and it is not “changed massively.”

Other than new attractions and construction, the big change is Genie+ and LL. To date, we haven’t had a reason to use either. We were prepared to use it for Ratatouille not long after it opened, but came upon it with a 40 minute wait time that ended up closer to 30.

We pick attractions with shorter waits, but have other priorities.

Per usual, if you want to be miserable, you’ll find reasons. If you have a generally realistic and optimistic approach in life, you’ll have a great time as always.

That’s not me - ever. Try again.

Your presumption of having visited more and knowing more than everyone here is not only obnoxious but incorrect. Don’t Disneysplain us.

Maybe I have a better time because, rather than burying my head in the sand, I just have a healthier approach to life in general.

I'm sure my family would have a good time if we ever went to Disney again. We do have great times no matter where we vacation. The problem is all the changes with Genie+, the loss of perks and nothing they have recently added are a draw for us is why we haven't been willing to give it a chance again.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

@Lilofan the above is nonsense. I’ve been several times during and after, and it is not “changed massively.”

I’d say there’s been massive changes but the narrative they’ve “ruined” WDW is greatly exaggerated.

Is WDW as good as it was before they eliminated ME, eliminated FP, added G+, added reservations, reduced appearance standards, etc? Nope, but I’d argue it’s gone from an A grade to a B grade, not the disaster many people make it out to be.

Even as a B it’s still better than everything else that doesn’t have the name Disney attached to it, Disney really needs to stop the downward trend if they’re going to remain the top dog though, others are stepping up their game while Disney is making cuts and reducing perks.

 

[Jrb1979]

I can. I just returned Wednesday from a 9 day trip. Our trips are different from 10 years ago, for one thing our kids are no longer little. Now value depends on the person, so not going to get into that.

So yes I can say with a straight face that my family and I enjoy wdw aa much as we did 18 years ago when we became dvc members.
Now as a general rule I don't compare much of anything to "way back when". If I did I wouldn't get any enjoyment out of anything. I also went to Greece this year, was it the same as when I first went over 30 years ago?? Not at all.

We only did Genie plus one day out of the 7 park days but I can say I wasn't a fan buy that has not dimmed our enjoyment.

We're planning our next trip. Lol you do realize that there is a trip reports forum where hundreds of people are writing about their great vacations

I will say I totally miss Illuminations

For my family for most things we don't compare to way back when. For Disney we do and it's cause what drew us to WDW was the immersive dark rides. We don't go to Disney for coasters or thrill rides. If we want that we will go to a park that has coasters with high G forces.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I’d say there’s been massive changes but the narrative they’ve “ruined” WDW is greatly exaggerated.

Is WDW as good as it was before they eliminated ME, eliminated FP, added G+, added reservations, reduced appearance standards, etc? Nope, but I’d argue it’s gone from an A grade to a B grade, not the disaster many people make it out to be.

Even as a B it’s still better than everything else that doesn’t have the name Disney attached to it, Disney really needs to stop the downward trend if they’re going to remain the top dog though, others are stepping up their game while Disney is making cuts and reducing perks.

I agree. I think that Disney still does most things right - it’s just that they made cuts in a way that hurt them badly in overall goodwill. Perhaps for things like Genie+, where they make absolute bank, the trade off was worth it (from a financial perspective). For other things, maybe not as much.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I agree. I think that Disney still does most things right - it’s just that they made cuts in a way that hurt them badly in overall goodwill. Perhaps for things like Genie+, where they make absolute bank, the trade off was worth it (from a financial perspective). For other things, maybe not as much.

They could have made more bank just raising ticket prices $20 and not paying to change anything.

The reality is the system costs money to run, but instead of making everyone pay for it, only those who use it are paying for it.

Beyond that, it sounds like it needs some tweaking.

 

[DisneyHead123]

They could have made more bank just raising ticket prices $20 and not paying to change anything.

The reality is the system costs money to run, but instead of making everyone pay for it, only those who use it are paying for it.

Beyond that, it sounds like it needs some tweaking.

I thought they did raise ticket prices, but I understand your general point. They could have raised them $20 more.

That said, perception is still important. Labeling something “nickel and diming” vs. “paying a la carte from a menu of amazing services” is subjective. There’s generally emotion behind subjective perceptions. And I think the perception right now leans towards “nickel and diming” (as opposed to the days when people happily paid for dessert parties, after hours parties, tours, and “early mornings in Fantasy / Toy Story Land”, seeing this as a delightful menu of add-ons, not nickel diming.)