Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[JD80]

Is it possible that people are just tired of a stale product the repeat customers no longer have that fomo bc what is their to miss? I also think this younger generation no longer is basically brainwashed by everything Disney for whatever reason that its not always daddy/mommy i wanna go to WDW. Its plenty of factors and most imo all Disney driven as they have found so many ways to alienate pretty much all their guests one way or the other. Which is a pretty impressive thing to accomplish considering where they once were with guest loyalty

Not sure about this. I don't think generational shifts in vacation habits happen this quickly. That would be a slow downward trend and you are not seeing that at all. WDW was going stronger than ever in 2019 and those types of shifts are measured in decades.

This is more of a sharper decline that is probably indicative of a value proposition change than anything else.

 

[JD80]

Which continues to get harder as they add more rooms.

Maybe - but what kind of rooms are they adding? DVC/Deluxe. People spending that kind of money are the type of people who are more likely to add G+ every day.

 

[Splash4eva]

That's what I mean. Neither of those would entice me into booking a trip. What's being built at Epic Universe looks way more interesting to me.

oh okay sorry misunderstood....

 

[Splash4eva]

Not sure about this. I don't think generational shifts in vacation habits happen this quickly. That would be a slow downward trend and you are not seeing that at all. WDW was going stronger than ever in 2019 and those types of shifts are measured in decades.

This is more of a sharper decline that is probably indicative of a value proposition change than anything else.

i do see your point and agree.... but maybe these recent decisions by Disney along with price hikes finally have created a spiral they no can no longer control...

 

[UpAllNight]

We're lifelong Disney fans who've visited Orlando, from the UK, for extended holidays, 5 times.

Universal Orlando has been our favorite resort on 3 of the 4 trips we've done both resorts. The exception was 2017 when Disney had a feeling of excitement again with the addition of Pandora & Happily Ever After, with more announced on the horizon.

Last year, we only went to Universal, and Seaworld & Busch.

As we've gotten older, we've struggled to justify the cost vs benefit equation in our favor of visiting Disney. I spend my whole life planning, I do it for a job. I don't want to do it whilst I'm trying to have a fun time. Universal is, currently (although I've heard some worrying plans), effortless, and that appeals to me so so so much more than anything Disney are offering.

I recently went to Disneyland Paris and it allowed me to experience some of the Universal Orlando feeling, in a Disney setting, and I loved it.

We're next planning a return in 2025 for Epic Universe, where I probably will visit Disney, but will likely be 10 nights Universal (+ Seaworld, and Busch) and maybe a week at Disney - but Universal are deservedly taking a much higher % of my money. They've earned it.

Disney has 4 parks and they're all underbuilt, and that's pretty shocking for the money that rolls through the place.

 

[monothingie]

If that were truly the case, then Universal would not be gaining on WDW as fast as they are.

How so? It's not a zero-sum game where one wins and the other looses. If both parks are growing in attendance, you can go to both and it still counts.

Also keep in mind that Disney artificially limited their capacities in 2021 and into 2022. So it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It already broke even.
Eta: this is from collider

$250 production budget
X2

+ estimated $140 (low) to $170 (high) marketing budget



So the real question is: late at night - when you get all cozy in your stitch footie Jammies and hug your tigger pillow -and the demons come…what do they say to you?

 

[UpAllNight]

How so? It's not a zero-sum game where one wins and the other looses. If both parks are growing in attendance, you can go to both and it still counts.

Also keep in mind that Disney artificially limited their capacities in 2021 and into 2022. So it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

Disney are losing from me. I come to Orlando as a blank canvas willing to spend 14-21 days in whatever parks capture my attention, and Disney is getting less and less of them. I'm spending less money on food, merchandise, add-ons, hotel nights, and spending it at their competitors.

My hope is that by some miracle, someone high up or influential from Disney is reading this. To get me, and international guests to visit, you need to work for it. Attendance is not a guarantee & it should not be assumed.

From the UK, I can visit Rome for £10. I can jump on a ferry, flight or plane to Amsterdam or Paris. I paid £15 for a flight to Cologne, where I plan to visit Phantasialand, and it looks phenomenal. As cost pressures and a possible recession bite... you need to work for your money. Disney's pipeline of projects at the moment is insulting...or none-existent, whichever way you look at it. Regional parks, which make significantly less revenue/profit, are doing more. There's a limit of acceptance of the "Disney Magic" and they've burst past it.

Disney holds such nostalgic feelings and goodwill that they can rescue this, but my word....make an effort.

 

[JusticeDisney]

So these innumerable people are willfully not supporting DIS because of the govs stance?

It’s pretty clear what I said. And this may come as a shock to you, but there are plenty of people who might like to visit Florida for reasons other than WDW.

 

[JusticeDisney]

and i can tell you how many I know who have not only spent extra time in florida but have actually moved there from NY to Fla bc of the Gov.... so like i said we can go back and forth all day long

You are the only one going back and forth. I never claimed that what you are saying is not true. But you on the other hand did claim that what I said is untrue.

 

[JD80]

i do see your point and agree.... but maybe these recent decisions by Disney along with price hikes finally have created a spiral they no can no longer control...

The practice and strategy to raise prices slowly above inflation, increase per guest spending while also removing overhead and additional expenditures has been in play for at least 10 years or more. These aren't recent decisions.

This is all about cost and nothing to do with a male cartoon character having a crush another male cartoon character.

 

[DisneyJayBama]

Disney shockingly low.

Not really a shock if you’ve been paying attention.

Meanwhile, Universal is making a killing.

 

[5thGenTexan]

Also, there was plenty of people in Orlando, they just were at Universal, Sea World and other places. People aren’t going to Disney World. Money is some of it, but I think the barriers are a large part too, park reservations, no park hopping before 2pm, genie+, etc. Disney needs to lower the complexity, ASAP.

we just got back from a trip to WDW. Last big trip was 2016 to DLR.

IMO, the planning for this trip and implementation after we got there was a breeze. It was not that complicated. Aside from I couldnt figure out where to pick lightening lanes within the app, but thats because I waited till it was time before even tried to look.

 

[5thGenTexan]

My “suspicion”…and Remember I’m a quack with no experience who never guesses anything right…is that not only are the hotels not selling - which is fairly obvious as you’ve pointed out - but the real problem is off property.

Remember there are hundreds upon hundreds of hotels outside the arches that were built to put people in the Disney parks too. And my hunch is the price coupled with the planning difficulties has really gutted that segment of the customer base.

You can discount and fill the wdw rooms…not sure you can reverse the outside trend.

They just pushed it too far.

I'd love to save some cash, but I have yet to find and decent advice or confirmation of how and what the transportation is like from those outside hotels.

I live in a rural area and I have never in life taken a taxi or utilized public transportation. Until 3 weeks or so ago I had never used rideshare. I don't know how I will get from those cheaper hotels to the parks, how much it will cost, and how often I might assume the "shuttles" they do have run or IF they even run. I have absolutely no inclination to drive in that mess.

To me it is worth the extra cost at a resort hotel, this past trip was POFQ to walk out and get on a bus that I know is going to get me to where I need to be.

 

[monothingie]

Disney are losing from me. I come to Orlando as a blank canvas willing to spend 14-21 days in whatever parks capture my attention, and Disney is getting less and less of them. I'm spending less money on food, merchandise, add-ons, hotel nights, and spending it at their competitors.

My hope is that by some miracle, someone high up or influential from Disney is reading this. To get me, and international guests to visit, you need to work for it. Attendance is not a guarantee & it should not be assumed.

From the UK, I can visit Rome for £10. I can jump on a ferry, flight or plane to Amsterdam or Paris. I paid £15 for a flight to Cologne, where I visited Phantasialand, last week, and it was phenomenal. As cost pressures and a possible recession bite... you need to work for your money. Disney's pipeline of projects at the moment is insulting...or none-existent, whichever way you look at it. Regional parks, which make significantly less revenue/profit, are doing more. There's a limit of acceptance of the "Disney Magic" and they've burst past it.

Disney holds such nostalgic feelings and goodwill that they can rescue this, but my word....make an effort.

I'm no simp for Disney, you can check my street cred with @Sirwalterraleigh.

Disney has done nothing but burn through any goodwill guests may have had for them under the "leadership" of Bob 1, Bob 2, and then Bob 1 again. Pent up demand gave them an artificial boost in 2022 and now reality is bringing them back to reality. Disney has to figure out it's approach to fixing this, but to do so they have to clear a lot of the ROT from within.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Orlando specially has been hit very hard…other travel spots seem to be universally (no pun) up…

It’s the price

Correct. I just got back a few days ago from a sailing on the Wonder of the Seas with Royal Caribbean which at over 6000 guests and over 2500 crew was a totally full sailing on a new ship. I didnt get an exact count on the kids onboard but this week was supposed to be 1600 and I was told by one of the crew that the week I was on had even more. People are looking for good alternatives and finding them for family vacations. Marie

 

[Splash4eva]

The practice and strategy to raise prices slowly above inflation, increase per guest spending while also removing overhead and additional expenditures has been in play for at least 10 years or more. These aren't recent decisions.

This is all about cost and nothing to do with a male cartoon character having a crush another male cartoon character.

Im not saying cost is NOT a factor but i assure you cost has gone up everywhere and so far every place ive been too had been basically packed and people spending. As i said earlier i spent small fortune by the shore recently and a few weeks ago at a different beach resort on the east coast. Both times places places and prices higher than last year. Those are facts from MY personal experience. So its not like people are not spending. Again. We can never prove why less people are going to Disney. 100% its cost but imo its NOT the only reason why.
Add in an Aruba trip as well and 2 separate quick trips to Florida.

 

[Lilofan]

Florida reports record tourism numbers ahead of busy summer travel season

Florida is breaking records for tourism in 2023. The Tampa Bay area is one of the largest destinations in the state.

www.fox13news.com

Or you can just look at the facts.


I’m sure your friends will be missed.

These tourists in record amounts visiting FL perhaps don't seem to care about the " recession " that some are talking about. Stock market pros seem to be changing their tune when predicting a 23' recession now some saying its now happening in 24' .

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

These tourists in record amounts visiting FL perhaps don't seem to care about the " recession " that some are talking about.

Cool…where can I find them? Panama with that hammerhead going bugnuts off the beach?

 

[monothingie]

It already broke even.
Eta: this is from collider

$250 production budget
X2

+ estimated $140 (low) to $170 (high) marketing budget



So the real question is: late at night - when you get all cozy in your stitch footie Jammies and hug your tigger pillow -and the demons come…what do they say to you?

This thing is in the hole for at least $150M. No one ever counts the marketing costs.