Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

GhostHost1000

Premium Member
Genie was rolled out during the pandemic and benefited greatly from the revenge travel phenomenon. Now that revenge travel is basically over and inflation is at historic levels, the average family can no longer afford an expensive vacation. Disney will not lower ticket prices, but they might adjust Genie prices down in an attempt to make guests overall visit cheaper. I would also expect plenty of resort, discounts and Florida resident discounts, to try and prop things up through this slow down. In the end, Disney will be just fine.
I don't see them ever lowering the cost of G+. I could see them offering something within resort packages and/or onsite guests if things get really bad... but it's such a cash cow, they want to keep milking it until the utters fall off
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
I do find the moral self-patting victory lap on disney to be quite strange by a lot of people here, especially when the competition (and nearly every company of almost every sector) is experiencing the same thing.

The economy was juiced and extremely inflationary and now have been purposely cooled off with unemployment purposely increased to ease inflation.

Did Disney raise prices to unsustainable and extreme heights? Yes, but so did literally every other company, and it’s reached a breaking point for pretty much everyone. I don’t know why we’re pretending to be surprised?

You do realize that many around here have been saying that for years. And the difference between Disney and their main competitor in Orlando is their competitor is building new while Disney languishes with "refreshes", for the most part, instead of new capacity. They have two net-new rides - Tron and Rat - in the past decade, while they have increased prices well beyond realistic measures of inflation (if you believe inflation was only 9% in 2023, I have some real estate in south Florida I'd like to sell you).
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
I do find the moral self-patting victory lap on disney to be quite strange by a lot of people here, especially when the competition (and nearly every company of almost every sector) is experiencing the same thing.

The economy was juiced and extremely inflationary and now have been purposely cooled off with unemployment purposely increased to ease inflation.

Did Disney raise prices to unsustainable and extreme heights? Yes, but so did literally every other company, and it’s reached a breaking point for pretty much everyone. I don’t know why we’re pretending to be surprised?
I don't give a you know what. People are still traveling to Florida. MCO saw a record number of travelers over Memorial Day weekend. Yet people avoided the parks.

Face it, people are not interested in the prices Universal or Disney is changing right now.
 

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
Bob Iger's Disney Parks strategy, summarized as simply as possible (with the assistance of many, including, but not limited to, Bob Chapek and Josh D'Amaro):

Dairy Farm Milk GIF by Rex Orange County


Meanwhile, the cow is fed smaller and smaller portions while being shown bright and sunny images on a screen to convince it that their environment is great. I heard it may soon be upgraded from a projection on a screen to a Disney AR headset. The cows will be happier, according to Disney survey results recently taken.
 

JIMINYCR

Well-Known Member
ah ok... so first it was the Florida sun, then Taylor Swift, and now it's the Olympics. Man WDW can't catch a break. I wonder what it'll be next year? Murder hornets? Sharknado risk?
The upcoming election will surely have a great impact with consumers deciding what they can afford and as has been brought up recently is the impending “Recession” which will make many question the risk of spending for vacations and any other luxury items.
But Dis has hurt themselves greatly by their pricing, lack of deals , removal of services and lack of guest ability to access attractions easily.
And I’ve noticed a great decrease of Disney advertising their vacations on television which usually attracts summer visitors. What’s up with that?
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
I do find the moral self-patting victory lap on disney to be quite strange by a lot of people here, especially when the competition (and nearly every company of almost every sector) is experiencing the same thing.

The economy was juiced and extremely inflationary and now have been purposely cooled off with unemployment purposely increased to ease inflation.

Did Disney raise prices to unsustainable and extreme heights? Yes, but so did literally every other company, and it’s reached a breaking point for pretty much everyone. I don’t know why we’re pretending to be surprised?
Disney always has a bullseye on their back .
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
So what's the excuse for Universal's revenue decreasing some 10%? Apparently their business is suffering far more than Disney's. Is their management just more inept?
Last summer didn't Universal record a 22% increase in revenue with the Mario land opening in CA? 2/3 the drop this year was in CA, so it could be everyone flocked last year and then tailed off this year. Of course with us not getting the real number breakdowns it's hard (as in how individual parks did), but it could be Disney pushed more in on their losses last year (StarCruiser), so numbers look better this year than in reality, and Universal got a huge push last year which makes this year look a bit worse. Disney having Cruise Lines in with it could also be propping that revenue up a lot more.

Reality is both parks in Orlando are having a lot of issues, which almost assuredly means pricing is too out of control. But, one has a HIGHLY anticipated park opening next year, the other sounds like they are banking on getting a bump from that (which if pricing is the issue, I'm not sure they will).
 

SplashJacket

Well-Known Member
I don't give a you know what. People are still traveling to Florida. MCO saw a record number of travelers over Memorial Day weekend. Yet people avoided the parks.

Face it, people are not interested in the prices Universal or Disney is changing right now.
People avoided the parks is laughable.

They’re still at an insane level of attendance, they’re just not at the records spurred by condensed vacations.

The parks were too crowded (they knew that, just as much as we knew that). Their publicly stated strategy was to raise prices while not sacrificing too much attendance.

If they want to bring back attendance, they easily could through lower prices, and to everyone who scoffs at how bad the parks are currently…

The parks are far more enjoyable now than they were pre-covid. Not even close. People are willing to pay a premium for that, but there’s also a limit. Simple supply and demand. This is a fundamental disagreement, because most on here decry that the parks are now terrible.

Obviously, it’s difficult because they aren’t adding new draws in the short term, but I’m very curious to see how Epic performs in 25’ and beyond.

Pricing is THE reason the parks are decreasing in attendance coupled with larger economic trends.

We’ll see this weekend, but there’s only three directions they can really go from here:
1) Do nothing because revenue is down so don’t add more costs
2) Spend a lot to bring new draws and improve parks to sustain increased prices
3) Spend a lot to add capacity which brings new guests while enabling the parks to absorb crowds associated with more sustainable pricing

2 and 3 obviously have a lot of overlap, but there’s a difference between retheming Buzz to Wreck it Ralph or adding an attractive low capacity ride vs adding a new land with people-eating attractions.

I personally think sky-high prices are silly because it excludes a lot of people, and there’s a feedback loop in the parks. People who go to the parks go to the theater, they buy merch at home, they bring their friends and get them hooked in the eco-system, etc.

So I think there’s long-term value in a lower cost of attendance, but part of the issue is the parks physically are not built to sustain that.

California’s parks are better built for that, but DCA has ridiculous lines for rides like Monster’s Inc (largely spurred by Genie+), so it’s very difficult to employ that strategy there, especially since the hotel limitations also make it more difficult.

I’ve seen very few Disney promotions/ads compared to pre-pandemic levels. They’ve largely been coasting, which we can all agree is bad, but regardless, you don’t need an MBA or 10 hours a day on WDWMagic to understand their growth/pricing strategies were unsustainable, so the victory lap is silly.

What matters is how they proceed this weekend.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm missing something, but the financial report seemed okay-ish. The Parks segment wasn't as profitable as in the past but still is making substantial money despite poor headwinds. If anything that might indicate that they need to spark investment in the parks to spark interest and reverse attendance/booking trends

The rest of the company seems to be on more stable financial ground including streaming overall turning a profit.

I have no idea what the panel will be like on Saturday, but the financial report isn't one that would make me think "well, they can't or won't fund anything"
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm missing something, but the financial report seemed okay-ish. The Parks segment wasn't as profitable as in the past but still is making substantial money despite poor headwinds.

Lipstick on a pig.

One only needs to look back at the six decades of park history to know that "MSRP" ticket, resort, and food prices will not be reduced. What they are today is simply a benchmark for future increases.

The question is what sort of discounts, inclusive perks and added value will they dream up in order to increase attendance (and thus profit). Personally, I see a chronic stubborn resistance to wait things out and continue to cut capacity and costs rather than increase them in order to address declining attendance and per-visitor spend.
 

Weather_Lady

Well-Known Member
I don't give a you know what. People are still traveling to Florida. MCO saw a record number of travelers over Memorial Day weekend. Yet people avoided the parks.

Face it, people are not interested in the prices Universal or Disney is changing right now.
They're both expensive, but we've switched over to Universal exclusively (as opposed to splitting Orlando vacations between WDW and Universal) solely because of how disproportionately complicated, costly, uncertain, and generally miserable Disney has made the touring/queuing experience.

At Universal, we have the choice between waiting in fairly reasonable, or at least predictable, standby lines (so long as we don't visit during major holiday or vacation periods), or else enjoying fast Express Pass lines at every single attraction save one (included for the whole family when we stay at a premium hotel at passholder rates, with seasonal annual passes that cost only slightly more than a 4-day ticket). Either way we do it, with minimal planning and a reasonable amount of park knowledge, at Universal we can enjoy a relaxing day with some room for spontaneity, and no need to engage in any up-charges or pound my phone all day instead of having fun. (*Hopefully, this won't change overmuch when Epic Universe opens, and I won't have to rescind this assessment!)

At WDW, we face the Sophie's Choice of accepting unreasonably long and unpredictable standby lines, or paying tons more to gamble on the possibility of having a few shorter waits at a handful of attractions, none of which are guaranteed to be available in the first place, and only if we arrive during set time windows that may or may not be convenient for us, or spend hours on the app, trying to continually modify and upgrade our reservations so that they don't disrupt our day more than they're improving it.

I realize that Universal's roster of attractions isn't as appealing to some, and that it doesn't have the nostalgia factor that WDW does, but for us, we enjoy the Universal touring experience enough that we're willing to pay the price for it (which, after the purchase of seasonal annual passes and discounted premium hotel stays, comes out to 20% less than the rough Disney equivalent of 5-day parkhoppers and discounted DVC stays with rented points). WDW doesn't even enter into our vacation discussions anymore -- which is sad, because the vast majority of our family vacations there -- up until the last couple -- were among our happiest memories! Obviously, our experience and opinions are subjective, and I'll be the first one to admit that our priorities have always skewed toward how many good rides we can enjoy with the shortest wait, rather than on shows, dining, or other bigger-picture factors, but we feel like Universal is still offering a product that's worth investing in.
 
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LSLS

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm missing something, but the financial report seemed okay-ish. The Parks segment wasn't as profitable as in the past but still is making substantial money despite poor headwinds. If anything that might indicate that they need to spark investment in the parks to spark interest and reverse attendance/booking trends

The rest of the company seems to be on more stable financial ground including streaming overall turning a profit.

I have no idea what the panel will be like on Saturday, but the financial report isn't one that would make me think "well, they can't or won't fund anything"
Financials as a whole weren't terrible. Financials of the parks were pretty awful. The fact they eliminated any reference to attendance in the report is extremely telling. Profit is dropping even though they had a star cruiser to pay off last year. Even their two bullet points on parks made no sense. Then they dropped the nugget that they see the issues continuing.
 

LSLS

Well-Known Member
People avoided the parks is laughable.

They’re still at an insane level of attendance, they’re just not at the records spurred by condensed vacations.

The parks were too crowded (they knew that, just as much as we knew that). Their publicly stated strategy was to raise prices while not sacrificing too much attendance.
It's, um, not? Memorial Day average wait time this year was 19 minutes.

I also will die on the hill that them knowing attendance was too high was nothing they cared about. They thought they could raise prices, decrease value, and people would come no matter what based on the name, and they hit the line which was crossed. BUT, it's not as easy as just dropping the prices. A private company, absolutely. But that would be a huge thing in the stock, and it's not guaranteed to get the people back either as I think a lot of people are just totally turned off at this point. They painted themselves into a corner, and I think their thought is adding to the parks will be enough to get people back.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
You do realize that many around here have been saying that for years. And the difference between Disney and their main competitor in Orlando is their competitor is building new while Disney languishes with "refreshes", for the most part, instead of new capacity.
Exactly. Universal is building actual capacity. They aren't peeing on our leg and telling us it's raining. The fact that Iger said they've been preparing for Epic for the last 5 or however many years is frankly insulting.
They have two net-new rides - Tron and Rat - in the past decade,
And that's debatable based on how many things were shuttered well before the past decade.
 

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