Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Disney Dead Head]

Yeah I would agree with this. If the crowd level really only calls for one side of the ride to be run AND you can provide a reasonable wait time, no reason to waste costs on wear and tear for the ride system. It's when they run only one side of the ride to save staffing costs and it makes wait times miserable that I get irritated, and they do that more than they should.

We experienced this multiple times last week across all parks. Friday after the Fireworks in MK Jungle was posted @25min it took over 50 min once in the queue. there was only one boat in the dock at a time. add insult of the LL and they put only 4 stand-by riders per boat

Our Virtual Queue for TRON was almost 2 hours and stretched down the ramp

on the flipside - Mansion was 45 but i have never felt that ride go so fast ever it felt like 3 min which is half the normal speed

I will end on a positive. My son and I did for the first time, Guided Fishin on Baylake. The guide was awesome and we caught 13 BASS in 2 hours. def a must-do if you like to fish.

 

[Splash4eva]

So effectively its very unlikely we would need Genie+ for our august trip it seems. Sans MK at key points.

I was there last August into Labor day for 11 days and yes parks were not crowded at all... my only question tho is this... why wait on any line even if they are say 30 minutes if you have an option to skip them altogether? Not judging you or anyone else im just curious why anyone would choose that option....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So effectively its very unlikely we would need Genie+ for our august trip it seems. Sans MK at key points.

August was already one of the slower months…particularly the second half.

But here’s what I’ll say: your probably don’t NEED It…but you may still want to try it. There are a couple of the individual lightning lanes that may make it easier to just buy - guardians and tron because they have no regular line.

You can always try it and see if you need/like it?
I’ll say if it’s in Epcot or dak…it is way less useful than the other two.

Have fun and don’t be afraid to lean on those of us that have experience and don’t suffer propoganda from burbank

 

[jannerUK]

I guess its more understanding what the ride times are stating. Seen on the last two pages some say "Over-exaggerated wait times" and others say "Under-Exaggerated Wait Times" - Im just trying to avoid being a mug and getting Genie+ on those days that the gubbins are out to scalp and raise the wait time for rides...

 

[Kamikaze]

... and it's unfortunately a product that other parks are starting to capitalize on.

Sooner or later Universal will realize that they are missing out on offering an individual express option for the Harry Potter rides and Velocicoaster.

Wait until you guys hear about the VIP Tram/Backstage Tour at Universal Studios Hollywood and what you get.

 

[matt9112]

Altho you make a valid point with this... you can also argue building new rides in time will pay for themselves as they will be part of ILL and can charge to ride so in theory they should be building faster and more efficiently... also im not defending them but all parks have a paid version and Disney can almost never meet capacity for guests (altho they are doing an good job now lol with the lack of people going) People will still pay for askip the line system imo because noone wants to wait in lines if they dont have too

I agree they should be building more rides like a lot more. They haven’t truely expanded much of the Florida parks. Not at scale at least. Things like avatar or GE or even Toy Story land don’t add nearly enough capacity to overcome decades of slower than necessary building. Coupled with less to do than I would expect. The fact you need to sell a left kidney to enjoy GE in all of its glory is crazy.


Tokyo got rid of there paid system just the other day.

The most highly spoken of management strikes again.

 

[Kamikaze]

I agree they should be building more rides like a lot more. They haven’t truely expanded much of the Florida parks. Not at scale at least. Things like avatar or GE or even Toy Story land don’t add nearly enough capacity to overcome decades of slower than necessary building. Coupled with less to do than I would expect. The fact you need to sell a left kidney to enjoy GE in all of its glory is crazy.


Tokyo got rid of there paid system just the other day.

The most highly spoken of management strikes again.

Replacement instead of expansion is THE major issue in WDW. I understand it at DLR where the land is extremely limited (until DL Forward), but in the places they have land, it should be expansion areas first and overlays/replacements second. There are exceptions to this, of course.

 

[Trauma]

We experienced this multiple times last week across all parks. Friday after the Fireworks in MK Jungle was posted @25min it took over 50 min once in the queue. there was only one boat in the dock at a time. add insult of the LL and they put only 4 stand-by riders per boat

Our Virtual Queue for TRON was almost 2 hours and stretched down the ramp

on the flipside - Mansion was 45 but i have never felt that ride go so fast ever it felt like 3 min which is half the normal speed

I will end on a positive. My son and I did for the first time, Guided Fishin on Baylake. The guide was awesome and we caught 13 BASS in 2 hours. def a must-do if you like to fish.

Did I read this correctly?

Are you saying that HM is running at an increased speed ?

That would seem like something people would notice.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree they should be building more rides like a lot more. They haven’t truely expanded much of the Florida parks. Not at scale at least. Things like avatar or GE or even Toy Story land don’t add nearly enough capacity to overcome decades of slower than necessary building. Coupled with less to do than I would expect. The fact you need to sell a left kidney to enjoy GE in all of its glory is crazy.


Tokyo got rid of there paid system just the other day.

The most highly spoken of management strikes again.

Replacement instead of expansion is THE major issue in WDW. I understand it at DLR where the land is extremely limited (until DL Forward), but in the places they have land, it should be expansion areas first and overlays/replacements second. There are exceptions to this, of course.

Holy crap…how are we all agreeing on these things?
Progress?

 

[Tha Realest]

Did I read this correctly?

Are you saying that HM is running at an increased speed ?

That would seem like something people would notice.

Thats like 99/ghosts a minute!

 

[jpeden]

I agree they should be building more rides like a lot more. They haven’t truely expanded much of the Florida parks. Not at scale at least. Things like avatar or GE or even Toy Story land don’t add nearly enough capacity to overcome decades of slower than necessary building. Coupled with less to do than I would expect. The fact you need to sell a left kidney to enjoy GE in all of its glory is crazy.


Tokyo got rid of there paid system just the other day.

The most highly spoken of management strikes again.

Tokyo got rid of it for most rides, but they are leaving paid premier pass for their most popular attractions at roughly $11 - $18 for the following:

• Disney Harmony in Color Parade – 2,500 yen per access
• Tokyo Disneyland Electrical Parade Dreamlights – 2,500 yen per access
• Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast – 2,000 yen per access
• The Happy Ride with Baymax – 1,500 yen per access
• Splash Mountain – 1,500 yen per access

However it appears that this system will allow re-rides, which once again is my biggest gripe with G+. When there are return times available guests who have purcahsed G+ should be allowed to use it multiple times. I'd even be okay if they said you can start using it for re-rides "x hours" before park close (if the park closes at 10PM you can start using G+ for re-rides at say 6 or 7PM or something like that).

It's crazy that we can't use it multiple times when there's capacity in the system just sitting there being wasted (which clearly shows that not as many people are buying it as they want you to think).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wait until you guys hear about the VIP Tram/Backstage Tour at Universal Studios Hollywood and what you get.

Those things at dak are cool…I’d pay for those (some I have…others not yet)
Did divequest in Epcot…Segway tours back when

I don’t have a problem doing/paying extra.

But it’s the shunting people into them through ops subterfuge…that is irritating.

 

[Dranth]

We all know that bookings are down at Disney and there is no reason to doubt that as we have heard it from several reliable sources but that got me thinking. How much is that translating to shorter ride lines? I keep seeing people post about how waits are nothing and they walk on most things which is what you would expect if crowds are significantly down but how much better are they? Long story short, I got bored and decided to dig a little.

Using Touring Plans historical crowd levels, which is based on actual wait times, not the junk Disney posts, I decided to compare the overall crowd level from the last full pre-covid year, 2019, with 2023. Here is what I got for a year to date, monthly average:

	2019​	2023​	% Diff​
Jan	5.94​	5.94​	0.0%​
Feb	6.61​	5.93​	-11.5%​
March	8.26​	5.9​	-40.0%​
April	4.9​	5.73​	14.5%​
May	4.84​	3.9​	-24.1%​
June	5.37​	5.37​	0.0%​

I know Disney can manipulate waits by pulling ride capacity but, assuming there is at least some reasonable correlation between wait times and crowds then at first glance it looks like WDW took a beating in March and May. February was also down but nowhere near as badly. April was higher and January and June look to be the same as 2019.

Well, those numbers seem off so that got me over thinking things.

The March numbers make me wonder if they staffed for what they thought the crowds were going to be and that made it seem much more empty than it was. Basically, less people showed up but they were running the park as if expecting heavy crowds so the wait time of everything dropped. I could see them then over correcting for April where they then are understaffed and that drove wait times up when they otherwise would have been lower than 2019. Swing back the other way for May and then finally start to get the right mix in June.

Anyway, I know we can all poke a bajillion holes in any data people throw together as there are so many variables that play into what is going on but I found it an interesting diversion over a lunch break.

 

[Disney Dead Head]

Did I read this correctly?

Are you saying that HM is running at an increased speed ?

That would seem like something people would notice.

Yes we have experienced it in the past

 

[jpeden]

Yes we have experienced it in the past

I seem to remember in 2019 on the Halloween party night we attended it was running at warp speed (which wouldn't surprise me based on how crowded that party was).

 

[Trauma]

I’m sure there must be a current or former CM who works the ride, that can share some more info on HM ride speed.

Is it something that you get told to change based on crowd levels?

Just wondering what it’s all about.

 

[Coaster Lover]

... and it's unfortunately a product that other parks are starting to capitalize on.

Sooner or later Universal will realize that they are missing out on offering an individual express option for the Harry Potter rides and Velocicoaster.

Started? Six Flags was one of (if not the first) chains to offer an upcharge to skip the line and they've been offering that option for >20 years. I feel like this is one of the few times where Disney followed the lead of other chains. The only unique thing that Disney did was offer such a pass on a pay-per-ride basis (which I have recently seen spread to Six Flags AFTER starting at Disney). The big difference with Six Flags was that A) the parks were already so inexpensive to get into already (I remember multiple years paying $45-$55 for a season pass that would get me into EVER Six Flags park) that charging another $45 per person never felt like it was breaking the bank (at Disney, you're paying $25-$35 on top of already paying >$120) and B) the Six Flags option was priced high enough that it seemed like <20% of people got one (at Disney, they price it at this odd lower point where it's high enough to be a burden but not too high that most people won't get it).

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Started? Six Flags was one of (if not the first) chains to offer an upcharge to skip the line and they've been offering that option for >20 years. I feel like this is one of the few times where Disney followed the lead of other chains. The only unique thing that Disney did was offer such a pass on a pay-per-ride basis (which I have recently seen spread to Six Flags AFTER starting at Disney). The big difference with Six Flags was that A) the parks were already so inexpensive to get into already (I remember multiple years paying $45-$55 for a season pass that would get me into EVER Six Flags park) that charging another $45 per person never felt like it was breaking the bank (at Disney, you're paying $25-$35 on top of already paying >$120) and B) the Six Flags option was priced high enough that it seemed like <20% of people got one (at Disney, they price it at this odd lower point where it's high enough to be a burden but not too high that most people won't get it).

You’re talking about the Q-bot? God that thing sucked.

Anyway…yes…ride skips aren’t new. And people around here keep saying “just charge $100 a head…problem solved”

Not Disney and they know it.
It’s one thing for universal to charge $129 for express…it self regulates it’s sales at that rate

But the I saw recently typical week at wdw was calculated at $5,900??? That’s up like 200% percent in 15 years.
So when people are in that much and more? The “price it so people don’t buy it” is neutralized.
Disney Management is bad…but they’re not fools. They know that chaos would ensue

 

[the_rich]

So this is a first for me and I'm not sure if it's due to soft bookings or something else. I had a 4 night stay booked at the boardwalk Aug 23-27. I just got an email with a special offer. They offered me an upgrade to the grand Floridian for $100 more in total. I of course took it because usually it's priced at more than I want to pay a night.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So this is a first for me and I'm not sure if it's due to soft bookings or something else. I had a 4 night stay booked at the boardwalk Aug 23-27. I just got an email with a special offer. They offered me an upgrade to the grand Floridian for $100 more in total. I of course took it because usually it's priced at more than I want to pay a night.

They’ve used them in the past

Bookings are soft. No question

Good for you…take it and USE IT

I’m a beach/yacht/boardwalk cat…but I’m happy for you