Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[MagicHappens1971]

CBR this date in 2018 was $241 ($300 with inflation) vs. $330 today. Not much of a shift in cost (data from Touring Plans).

The tickets is where it hurts. It's about $1000 more expensive for a 5 or 6 day ticket package (with inflation) for a family of 4.

Tickets & Genie+, additional $17-$30 / per person / per day.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I think for many guests Magical Express was about the connivence and not the additional cost of other transportation options. Additionally, I’m sure that most families did not decide to stop visiting WDW based on e removal of ME alone. In the same breath of removing ME, they started charging for FP+ (G+), added parking fees to resorts, and more.

As @Tha Realest just mentioned, a trip to WDW costs thousands more than it did pre-Covid. No matter how you slice it or dice it.

So true. Its too bad Disney does not take into consideration the guest experience when making cuts like ME.

It really makes folks feel like they don't care about their guests, and at the same time, they want them to keep showing up.

And lucky for Disney, a lot of folks still show up:

 

[wedenterprises]

CBR this date in 2018 was $241 ($300 with inflation) vs. $330 today. Not much of a shift in cost (data from Touring Plans).

The tickets is where it hurts. It's about $1000 more expensive for a 5 or 6 day ticket package (with inflation) for a family of 4.

Yes, the ticket cost was shocking for us this year. Add in the cost of Genie+ and I really don't see us going back ever again.

 

[John park hopper]

Yes, the ticket cost was shocking for us this year. Add in the cost of Genie+ and I really don't see us going back ever again.

I'm with you

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

CBR this date in 2018 was $241 ($300 with inflation) vs. $330 today. Not much of a shift in cost (data from Touring Plans).

The tickets is where it hurts. It's about $1000 more expensive for a 5 or 6 day ticket package (with inflation) for a family of 4.

$300 for Caribbean is still ridiculous…

That’s just a part of it though

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Totally agree, its like a death of a thousand cuts. In this case its cuts of on property perks.

I am not a business expert, but if they want more folks to vacation to WDW and stay on site, ADD MORE PERKS WHEN STAYING ON SITE!

It does not been to be anything super great, in this case I think quantity of onsite perks may work that quality of the perks.

Many times it takes very little to make that "Disney rationalization" to kick in to go to WDW.

Honestly…if they had the shuttle and the old EMH…say a 2 hour block?…it makes the on-site look way more attractive

I just think the decades of constant price tweaking came to a head and they were over the cliff.

Without massive discounts…40-60% by my guess…they won’t be able to reverse the slide.

This management totally tossed out the lessons learned for decades by the prior elders

 

[LAM378]

It's an artificial capacity number. There's rooms out of inventory at many (most?) resorts.

Shutter rooms, downstaff mousekeeping, all while being "booked to capacity." The great shell game.

No doubt. There is no way these resorts are anywhere near full. There’s more elbow room everywhere than there has been in years. It’s like an off season trip from a decade ago (when May and September were actual off seasons).

I remember when I came the last week of June 2022 the parks and resorts got markedly more crowded by the day as it got closer to July 4th. Not happening this year. It’s as dead today as it was last Friday.

Not that there’s a whole lot to do in Future World, but we went for early entry and walked on everything by 10:00, just in time for the kids to do their Guardians LL. Went and had a nice 10:45 breakfast in a half empty Cape May Cafe, and now we’re about to go hang out at Stormalong. It’s hot and sunny but about a third of the chairs are empty. Maybe everyone’s at MK hoping to ride Tiana today.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not that there’s a whole lot to do in Future World, but we went for early entry and walked on everything by 10:00, just in time for the kids to do their Guardians LL. Went and had a nice 10:45 breakfast in a half empty Cape May Cafe, and now we’re about to go hang out at Stormalong. It’s hot and sunny but about a third of the chairs are empty. Maybe everyone’s at MK hoping to ride Tiana today.

Totally jeals right now

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

In a relatively short amount of time they took away DME, FP+, resort package delivery, and free Magicbands, all while prices increased rapidly for food (and the DDP), resorts, and tickets.

Each one of those items may not have been enough to entice people to stay (and certainly could be argued they’re all fairly new in the lifespan of WDW), but on a macro level all their small decisions came together to break what once could feel like an all inclusive bubble type vacation once you landed at MCO, replacing it with something that was more cobbled together - they would frame this as ‘giving options’ - and more expensive.

They had an intangible reason people insisted on on-site. They debatably broke that or heavily damaged it.

 

[Lilofan]

There definitely seems to be more cars in the parking lots at hotels…but far less over all people.

Mears is a ripoff…I think more people are renting/driving since the difference between shuttle and rentals isn’t all that much.

Attendance is slumping from price. We can ignore the elephant in the room…but he’s not going anywhere

Could families be looking at all around cost to forgo plane trips and rather drive to Orlando in their personal vehicles and or rentals? , To be driving is freedom to go anywhere at your own timeframe . In wintertime I lost track on how many Ontario NJ, NY license plates headed south on I-95 to FL

 

[JoeCamel]

Yes, but when Magical Express was free, it was clearly seen as a perk to stay on property and a lot of folks used it. Many more than who use Mears now I think.

How funny would be be if Universal started they own "EPIC Express" from the air port, LOL

Oh they will and call it Brightline.....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In a relatively short amount of time they took away DME, FP+, resort package delivery, and free Magicbands, all while prices increased rapidly for food (and the DDP), resorts, and tickets.

Each one of those items may not have been enough to entice people to stay (and certainly could be argued they’re all fairly new in the lifespan of WDW), but on a macro level all their small decisions came together to break what once could feel like an all inclusive bubble type vacation once you landed at MCO, replacing it with something that was more cobbled together - they would frame this as ‘giving options’ - and more expensive.

They had an intangible reason people insisted on on-site. They debatably broke that or heavily damaged it.

You hit it perfectly…

Management was always aware…though not necessarily wise…to not go over the line.

What the bobs did was hit “zero barrier”…critical mass.

Basic consumer history tells us that when you get an organic perception of being a ripoff - which I believe they now have - you are on a spiral to failure. Very tough to come back.

The Bob’s convinced themselves they operated above that basic principle/psychology.

Blue ocean

They took some very bad advice.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Oh they will and call it Brightline.....

Are there maps to show where the train station be relative to EPIC ?

And luggage, how does that work? Are there compartments for luggage on the train?

Is the train station close enough that a family can reasonably haul their luggage from train station to EPIC ?

 

[JoeCamel]

Are there maps to show where the train station be relative to EPIC ?

And luggage, how does that work? Are there compartments for luggage on the train?

Is the train station close enough that a family can reasonably haul their luggage from train station to EPIC ?

Certainly could include that

 

[doctornick]

While I do think DME did affect bookings, put me in the category that bringing it back isn’t a sure silver bullet to boost reservations. Transport to/from is a negligible cost for a trip that now measures many thousands more than when it was offered for “free.”

Put another way, the family that dropped $6K on a trip pre-Covid is likely looking at a similar trip costing them $9-$10K. Bringing back something for free that only costs around $100-$200 out of pocket seems like it won’t move the needle.

I will point out though that the big perk IMHO with MDE was the luggage delivery. The cost of getting alternate transportation is relatively marginal and generally quicker and more flexible (we generally do a shuttle and do a supermarket stop on the way).

But not having to handle bags that day and having them magically appear in your room - that was something of real and unique value.

 

[bwr827]

There were times that ME ran their buses near empty so that may be a consideration in cost cutting. EPIC Express won't work. To be trapped inside Uni area without a rental would be challenging.

We stayed at Universal without a car last year, and it was very easy. Easier than WDW in that everything was walkable. Enjoyed their “bubble” with our resorts (tried two of them), CityWalk, and the two parks.

 

[doctornick]

Oh they will and call it Brightline.....

No one (well virtually no one) is taking Brightline from MCO to Universal. The main users of the Uni station will be people traveling in from farther away (eg Miami). It’s a terrible inconvenient option from traveling from MCO to Uni

 

[bwr827]

No one is booking just because MDE is coming back.

Just guessing, but the main thing preventing people from booking now is cost. MDE wouldn't be a motivator, but if MDE was also part of a collection of new offerings/perks than maybe, but not MDE alone.

We paid about $160 round trip for Ubers to and from the airport, and had to handle our own luggage. If Magical Express were restored, it would be a nice perk — BUT not if they simply pass along the full cost to guests.

 

[mysto]

I really don't think lower attendance means Disney is doomed. More elbow room means happier guests, which makes everything run a little better. It also buys wiggle room for management to achieve a "steady state" of operations, offering discounts or price hikes as needed to adjust. There was a flood post-covid and things are finally getting back to normal.

The 7 day pre-book is all the incentive needed for people to pay up to stay on-site. Again IMO Disney is not doomed.

Cars in the resort parking lots? The budget conscious have found an angle, whether they be locals, driving from Jersey, or scamming their way into the lots. Not doomed.

 

[Jrb1979]

I really don't think lower attendance means Disney is doomed. More elbow room means happier guests, which makes everything run a little better. It also buys wiggle room for management to achieve a "steady state" of operations, offering discounts or price hikes as needed to adjust. There was a flood post-covid and things are finally getting back to normal.

The 7 day pre-book is all the incentive needed for people to pay up to stay on-site. Again IMO Disney is not doomed.

Cars in the resort parking lots? The budget conscious have found an angle, whether they be locals, driving from Jersey, or scamming their way into the lots. Not doomed.

Are they going to go bankrupt? NO. Is they how they are supposed to run? Again NO.

Parks and resorts are built for crowds. They just didn't keep up with those guests