Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Lilofan said:
In NYC and NJ were temps near 100 heat index one can retreat to cool AC. In MK those similar temps one can really feel how hot it is when spending many hours outside and its not by choice.
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I was just at our local amusement park yesterday and dealt with that heat. There were a lot of people there so the heat didn't keep them away. Same with many other parks across the north.
 
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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
I was just at our local amusement park yesterday and dealt with that heat. There were a lot of people there so the heat didn't keep them away. Same with many other parks across the north.
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Nothing new , also many still come to WDW during the summer and support FL economy and the Mouse.
 
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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
"All hat, no cattle" is the standard (ie presenting all the trappings of being something, but not actually being it) West of Fort Worth. People that believe that owning things from certain manufacturers imbue themselves with higher attributes or status. That's one of the outcomes of a credit based society with freedom of choice. Some choose to pretend.
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That reminds me of a quote

Some of the ones who don't know how to manage money effectively work for those that do.
 
Dranth

Dranth

Well-Known Member
solidyne said:
No. If all corporations have to do in order to "make record profits" is to increase prices, then why did they wait so long to do so? Did they suddenly become "greedy" in 2021? They weren't "greedy" in 2018? Like they never thought of this magic technique before?
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No, that isn't all they need to do but think about it. If your costs have gone up, but you somehow end up with record profit margins then the ONLY way you got there was by raising your prices enough to cover those costs. If you have record profits AND profit margins you had to not only jack prices enough to cover your increased costs but also enough to cover any reduced sales volume. The math just doesn't work any other way.

Also, companies are always greedy, but it is usually tempered by the realities of overreach. For example, sure, a company could increase prices by 1000% across the board on all their products tomorrow but they would likely lose their entire customer base. So instead, most companies increase prices every year or two by smaller percentages and fight to control costs as if their existence depends on it (which it often does).

What happened in 2020 provided cover for companies to jack prices WAY more than customers would normally tolerate. Inflation started as a legit byproduct of reduced supplies worldwide but the unique nature of the source (a once every 100-year pandemic) allowed companies to essentially price gouge legally (and many did) putting inflation into overdrive.

Even if you ran a company that didn't want to, if a supplier of yours jacked prices on a key component you had to follow suit unless you were going to eat the difference. Get a couple of companies doing that in a single chain and prices really begin to take off as it feeds each level above them until it reaches the consumer.
 
solidyne

solidyne

Well-Known Member
Dranth said:
No, that isn't all they need to do but think about it. If your costs have gone up, but you somehow end up with record profit margins then the ONLY way you got there was by raising your prices enough to cover those costs. If you have record profits AND profit margins you had to not only jack prices enough to cover your increased costs but also enough to cover any reduced sales volume. The math just doesn't work any other way.

Also, companies are always greedy, but it is usually tempered by the realities of overreach. For example, sure, a company could increase prices by 1000% across the board on all their products tomorrow but they would likely lose their entire customer base. So instead, most companies increase prices every year or two by smaller percentages and fight to control costs as if their existence depends on it (which it often does).

What happened in 2020 provided cover for companies to jack prices WAY more than customers would normally tolerate. Inflation started as a legit byproduct of reduced supplies worldwide but the unique nature of the source (a once every 100-year pandemic) allowed companies to essentially price gouge legally (and many did) putting inflation into overdrive.

Even if you ran a company that didn't want to, if a supplier of yours jacked prices on a key component you had to follow suit unless you were going to eat the difference. Get a couple of companies doing that in a single chain and prices really begin to take off as it feeds each level above them until it reaches the consumer.
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So, prices were raised because costs went up. That's not "greed."

Again, if "gouging" works, why wouldn't it happen all the time? What precisely was the "cover" in 2020? Sure, demand for certain things increased, as it does at various times for various reasons. Naturally, if supply is constant (or lowered) prices will go up. That's not "greed."

"Gouging" is raising prices above what someone would normally pay? OK. But people still paid it! Why is that not "normal"? Who decides what "normal" is? There's never a "normal" year or week or day.
 
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Dranth

Dranth

Well-Known Member
solidyne said:
So, prices were raised because costs went up. That's not "greed."

Again, if "gouging" works, why wouldn't it happen all the time? What precisely was the "cover" in 2020? Sure, demand for certain things increased, as it does at various times for various reasons. Naturally, if supply is constant (or lowered) prices will go up. That's not "greed."

You imply that gouging is raising prices above what someone would normally pay. OK. But people still paid it! Why is that not "normal"? Who decides what "normal" is? There's never a "normal" year or week or day.
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Technically I believe gouging is when you jack prices when people have no choice but to pay and, in some cases, we have laws to prevent that. For example, a gas station can't jack the pricing on gas when a hurricane is on its way. A Grocery store can't charge 10x as much for a loaf of bread if a blizzard is going to hit. Demand is irrelevant to supply in those situations because it is a temporary surge brought on by unique conditions that will soon pass.

Unfortunately, what we don't have in the US is laws designed to deal with a once every century event. I would equate massively increasing prices because you can while people are stuck at home on essentials as gouging. Doing it on optional purchases may not be, I could see an argument either way, but at the very least it is comically greedy and taking advantage of the situation.
 
solidyne

solidyne

Well-Known Member
Dranth said:
Technically I believe gouging is when you jack prices when people have no choice but to pay and, in some cases, we have laws to prevent that. For example, a gas station can't jack the pricing on gas when a hurricane is on its way. A Grocery store can't charge 10x as much for a loaf of bread if a blizzard is going to hit. Demand is irrelevant to supply in those situations because it is a temporary surge brought on by unique conditions that will soon pass.

Unfortunately, what we don't have in the US is laws designed to deal with a once every century event. I would equate massively increasing prices because you can while people are stuck at home on essentials as gouging. Doing it on optional purchases may not be, I could see an argument either way, but at the very least it is comically greedy and taking advantage of the situation.
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Right, and those laws are foolish as they lead to shortages and rationing.

Hurricanes, OK. Pandemics, OK... but where does it stop? Who defines the "emergency"?
 
Dranth

Dranth

Well-Known Member
solidyne said:
Right, and those laws are foolish as they lead to shortages and rationing.
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Stopping people from being taken advantage of during unusual and potentially dangerous conditions leads to shortages and rationing? I must be misunderstanding where you are going with that.

solidyne said:
Hurricanes, OK. Pandemics, OK... but where does it stop? Who defines the "emergency"?
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Typically governors or their appointees will declare a state of emergency empowered to do so by laws passed by elected legislative bodies that define when and where they can. At least in the US.

Anyway, we are getting a bit off topic on this one so let's move on before we incur the wrath of Mom.
 
Nubs70

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Dranth said:
Technically I believe gouging is when you jack prices when people have no choice but to pay and, in some cases, we have laws to prevent that. For example, a gas station can't jack the pricing on gas when a hurricane is on its way. A Grocery store can't charge 10x as much for a loaf of bread if a blizzard is going to hit. Demand is irrelevant to supply in those situations because it is a temporary surge brought on by unique conditions that will soon pass.

Unfortunately, what we don't have in the US is laws designed to deal with a once every century event. I would equate massively increasing prices because you can while people are stuck at home on essentials as gouging. Doing it on optional purchases may not be, I could see an argument either way, but at the very least it is comically greedy and taking advantage of the situation.
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We have plenty of anti gouging laws. Everytime a gouging incident comes up, my State AG sues them.
 
solidyne

solidyne

Well-Known Member
Dranth said:
Stopping people from being taken advantage of during unusual and potentially dangerous conditions leads to shortages and rationing? I must be misunderstanding where you are going with that.
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Yes, when demand for an item goes up while its price is artificially (i.e., by law) capped, more of the items are sold and fewer are available. If demand is particularly sharp there will be shortages. The shortages (in extreme circumstances) can lead to rationing.
Dranth said:
Typically governors or their appointees will declare a state of emergency empowered to do so by laws passed by elected legislative bodies that define when and where they can. At least in the US.
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It was a rhetorical question.
Dranth said:
Anyway, we are getting a bit off topic on this one so let's move on before we incur the wrath of Mom.
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Indeed! Neither of us is saying anything new anyway. We're rehashing arguments already hashed. However, this is one of those all-over-the-map threads anyway... LOL.
 
CntrlFlPete

CntrlFlPete

Well-Known Member
DisneyRoy said:
That’s a pretty common statement in Facebook groups. With the reason being a lot of people travel on Sunday and make MK their first park on Monday. So it’s usually more crowded then.
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Yes, it does have a logic to it and I tend to be sarcastic. I was pretty sure I had heard that (w/ the same logic behind it), but that was before Facebook.

I often will guess what MK Monday might be like based on Sunday night at Disney Springs based on that logic.

I just found it funny that I found MK Monday as slower than normal (based on crowd, not wait times) while they had found Tuesday to be on the crowded to typical side.

Anyway, when/if trends change, I imagine some of these sayings are too imbedded ;-)
 
rd805

rd805

Well-Known Member
JD80 said:
Regarding "too hot", my wife refuses to go in the summer now because of temps.
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It's REALLY hard -- even though we are in a heat wave up here in PA, i don't want that for a nonstop trip. If i build in some rest days, water parks, relaxing; then maybe i could in the summer, but i had a really difficult time keeping calm during the heat on a few occasions lol.
 
seabreezept813

seabreezept813

Well-Known Member
Lilofan said:
Stimulus money does help like it did for me and my family in Feb 2008. I did not support the economy but instead with the checks we paid down our debt. What a concept for some! Thanks stimulus checks!
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We took the portions we got for our kids and put it in their college accounts, the rest went into savings. We try to do that with our tax returns too. I know a lot put it into student loans.
 
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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
seabreezept813 said:
We took the portions we got for our kids and put it in their college accounts, the rest went into savings. We try to do that with our tax returns too. I know a lot put it into student loans.
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Yep that was the 2008 $100 billion stimulus package to us to hopefully help boost the struggling economy.
 

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