Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[JoeCamel]

Food tastes are also highly subjective. That is part of the challenge of talking about WDW food.

Yesterday I got a $10 jumbo burrito (the regular size one is only $6.50) at locally owned place and the quality blows the socks off any similar Mexican food at WDW.

For me, what I find frustrating is the lack of produce at WDW. Even when we eat TS, there is often a lack of vegetables. Menus often list a veggie, but what arrives is merely a tiny garnish. When I pay extra for a side vegetable, the thing that arrives is often terrible quality to the point of being nearly inedible. A good deal of the WDW produce just isn't poor quality and/or not at all fresh. Like their apples are just mealy and nasty. At WDW, I end up eating boring salads every day, and most are not that great.

In the last few days, I bought fresh local berries. Good luck finding berries of any kind at WDW. The Norway bakery used to have a dessert that was a basically a dark chocolate shell cup full of fresh blueberries and raspberries, but that was a long time ago.

Disney could do it, because they used to do it, but quality food costs money.

Then again, many people don't care about eating fruit or vegetables at all.

Moving from Florida to East Tennessee the change in menus has been stark, I miss veggies and unless I am willing to prep and cook at home my choice is usually salad, watery green beans or carrots. I do miss the produce that was available year round in most stores

 

[el_super]

Add more capacity and it wouldn't be a problem. Give guests something to do. Add back more parades, Streetmosphere and shows and crowding would less an issue.

What's that got to do with any of this?

Adding capacity doesn't solve crowding issues the way you think t does... it exacerbates them. What it does is move the crowds around and shifts demand internally. It's also pretty hard to justify spending money on additional capacity if you are talking about lowering or capping price increases. It's just not realistic at all.

 

[rd805]

Adding capacity doesn't solve crowding issues the way you think t does... it exacerbates them. What it does is move the crowds around and shifts demand internally. It's also pretty hard to justify spending money on additional capacity if you are talking about lowering or capping price increases. It's just not realistic at all.

I would argue the price increases are the big reason why crowds are falling -- they have priced out a lot of families. That was obviously a goal, but it worked more than they ever assumed. Add in the lack of new attractions, and they have a cooked a recipe for disaster.

 

[doctornick]

I’ve wanted to believe this but anytime I price out Europe just the flights alone are about 70% of our total cost of Disney. Add in hotels, food, things to do, trains etc and it's like 5k more for us.

I think a big part here is (1) size of the party and (2) flexibility with dates

It's easy to find some deals for Europe if you are one person or a couple (there are even cheaper room types with one bed or two twins, etc) and especially if you can leave different days of the week or not during school breaks.

For a family with children, especially if you are 5 or more people, a lot of the stuff can add up quickly. More expensive flights (and having to find the number of seats needed), potentially more than one hotel room at a time, transportation costs, etc. We've taken our kids multiple times to Europe but it's a very different experience when I was just going as an adult (with friends or my spouse) and had a ton more flexibility.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

We were discussing the breakfast option at Topolino's Terrace. There is no way I would spend $50 per adult for breakfast. Not a shot. Im sure the food is great and Im sure the character interactions are lovely but this is definitely not worth it for me. Marie

Breakfast there now goes until 12:10.

One thing that gets me is that lunch at dinner are now the same price at WDW. They used to at least charge slightly less for lunch.

And I have long been a fan of the WDW Recipe thread. Remember the heyday of forum members exchanging WDW recipes????

(As it happens, I just pulled out my old copy of the Wilderness Lodge berry cobbler a few days ago. The recipe calls for lots of butter, a CUP of heavy cream, plus eggs. )

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Adding capacity doesn't solve crowding issues the way you think t does... it exacerbates them. What it does is move the crowds around and shifts demand internally. It's also pretty hard to justify spending money on additional capacity if you are talking about lowering or capping price increases. It's just not realistic at all.

Nope…

BS Bob lie #117…way to fall for that one too

 

[LSLS]

So your theory is that Disney should generally ignore complains about overcrowding and go for a straight volume business like a regional operator?

Again, if you then decrease staffing and offerings so that crowding does not feel different, you are NOT fixing your overcrowding problem, and it was never your goal in the first place.

 

[seabreezept813]

Yeah, I kept hearing how it’s cheaper to go to Europe and I’m like 1) where are you flying from, 2) how much do you usually spend at WDW, and 3) is there a DVc rental market in Rome and Florence?

We even have family there so we wouldn’t have to eat every meal out and it’s still a lot.

 

[seabreezept813]

We’ve gone with party of 2 with all of what you have mentioned and it’s less than a week at WDW.

I wonder if it has to do with time of year you travel. I teach so we are held strictly to times school is out.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We even have family there so we wouldn’t have to eat every meal out and it’s still a lot.

There is no doubt it’s a huge expense that is outpacing the consumer market and a major commitment they can no longer count on people paying.

That’s what this good article is saying…and there’s been a lot of them over the last few years.

 

[Lilofan]

I wonder if it has to do with time of year you travel. I teach so we are held strictly to times school is out.

Yes it is off peak

 

[el_super]

Add in the lack of new attractions, and they have a cooked a recipe for disaster.

Not necessarily. They know, due in part to the pandemic, absense makes the heart grow fonder, and people will pay the higher prices if they take a break from visiting for a few years.

By the time that wears out, they will have $60B in New attractions to get them to come back.

Again, if you then decrease staffing and offerings so that crowding does not feel different

This thread goes back and forth from saying the parks are empty and no one is there to insisting the parks are still packed and everyone is miserable from the crowding. Seriously which is it?

Which one is it today?

 

[flynnibus]

MK used to regularly stay open until midnight and later. I am inclined to think people are willing to stay out late...except that G+ has somewhat crippled the appeal of staying late.

Its not Genie… the cutbacks to hours was long before that. It’s all about saving OpEx

Same thing with the hotels… when you are forced by your overlords to keep finding growth and protecting margins… you trim expenses to make up for revenue you can’t shake from the tree. Profit growth ends up coming from cost cutting.

And Disney stopped being a resort a long time ago… you’re paying inclusive resort prices and getting motel level amenities.

 

[flynnibus]

As far as the drink stations, leave one open for half the night and clean the other, then switch, turn on the clean one and take the other one out of service and deep clean that. Where there is a will.....

Take a look at the cruise line fountain machines late at night… they get molested horribly.

 

[James J]

I wonder if it has to do with time of year you travel. I teach so we are held strictly to times school is out.

The time of year makes a massive difference. We live in the UK and wouldn't book a week away within the country during school holidays, let alone go overseas. Last June we went to visit my wife's parents in Myrtle Beach and the flights for the two of us were $1500 total. It was almost double that to do the same trip in July or August.

We're glad that we don't need to take our WDW trips during school breaks.

 

[seabreezept813]

I think a big part here is (1) size of the party and (2) flexibility with dates

It's easy to find some deals for Europe if you are one person or a couple (there are even cheaper room types with one bed or two twins, etc) and especially if you can leave different days of the week or not during school breaks.

For a family with children, especially if you are 5 or more people, a lot of the stuff can add up quickly. More expensive flights (and having to find the number of seats needed), potentially more than one hotel room at a time, transportation costs, etc. We've taken our kids multiple times to Europe but it's a very different experience when I was just going as an adult (with friends or my spouse) and had a ton more flexibility.

Makes a lot of sense. I haven’t been to Europe since high school and my last international trip was Brazil where spending 6k on flights was okay because our money went so far there plus we had free lodging. We plan to do Europe with the kids but with one still 3 years old it seems like so much money for something they won’t love or enjoy yet. At least at Disney it’s definitely age appropriate and they love it. But if it was really truly the same cost for us we’d do Portugal next year to see my brother in law and try to get my MIL to meet us there.

 

[seabreezept813]

The time of year makes a massive difference. We live in the UK and wouldn't book a week away within the country during school holidays, let alone go overseas. Last June we went to visit my wife's parents in Myrtle Beach and the flights for the two of us were $1500 total. It was almost double that to do the same trip in July or August.

We're glad that we don't need to take our WDW trips during school breaks.

I keep pushing our union to put in some language allowing staff to stack up personal days to travel off season like once every 5 years or something. The fact that Florida is the center of the sun in August means it’s the one time we’re off school where we get “deals” we make work. And heck it’s 95 here in MA today so what difference is 5 degrees anyway.

 

[Tha Realest]

Yes it is off peak

A ticket to MK today is $164, not anywhere near the lowest price and not far off from top price.

Kids are out of school and families are traveling now.

“Off peak” or “seasons have shifted” feels like a convenient excuse belied by any evidence.

 

[flynnibus]

Well, for those of us that live in NYC and work in Manhattan, we kinda do pay those prices every day.

Yeah but disney isn’t paying manhattan rent prices, the yankees payroll, and has more economies of scale. It has every advantage going for it to be cheap… yet you are noting how it’s on par with one of the most expensive places in the world.

Prices are so expensive there (ny) because costs are so expensive. Wdw is a monopoly that is vertically integrated and operates in one of tge cheapest regions in the country.

thank you for framing up the problem….

 

[Laketravis]

On just our last three visits since December the lack of lines at QS and snack stands has been visibly noticeable. Not many are partaking in outrageously expensive Mickey pretzels, etc. The QS's seemed only lightly loaded, we never had an issue finding seating, and the TS's always seemed more than half empty. Whether it was in the parks or at the resorts.

Due to price hikes and lower quality, our previously long list of favorites has dwindled down to just a few over the last 15 years - we still frequent Cape May for dinner even though they took crab legs off the menu and have the audacity to offer it at an additional charge (seldom do I see any takers) and the brunch/lunch AYCE options at Whispering Canyon for less than $30 are still probably the best deal on property although the quality of the menu items has taken a dive and the place hasn't been filled to more than maybe 20% capacity every time we've been there. About the only other TS we will still eat at is Yachtsman's, which is priced comparatively to Capital Grille but nowhere near the quality or portion size.

It seems the reduction in food service capacity has reached it's lowest possible level (you can't close anymore POS's when you are down to one queue or staff a TS below a certain threshold) so I anticipate shortened hours and even some closures in order to squeeze more blood from the stone.