Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Dad 2 M & M]

Last time we did Deluxe hours it wasn’t much of a perk. In hindsight, there were a lot of people using LL, which didn’t make sense at the time but does now that some of the DAS abuse issues are more widely known. They were also less than vigilant in restricting ride access to Deluxe stays

The restricting was noticeably better at MK the last time we used the Extended Evening…..of all rides, Small World had the most militant entrance…we thanked the Cast Member for being so thorough

The usage of LL seemed to be much less as well…

 

[lentesta]

is there an indicator of what waiting times were like in 2023 compared to 2024 in the same months. is the lack of people a constant fall. or maybe an anomaly due to weather and costs at the moment in america?

Here's the waits for 7DMT on Memorial Day in 2024 and 2023.

2023, which had no ride downtime (and thus did not need to delay standby guests in order to serve LL guests) saw peak posted waits of 120 minutes. Actuals were lower.

And yesterday, with 3% downtime, posted waits briefly hit 75 minutes:

 

[Lilofan]

This has been in the reports for the last few.
View attachment 787973

Obesity is an epidemic in our country so many flocking to enjoy themselves on a cruise is not surprising. On our last cruise we ate 7 times in 1 day ending with the midnight buffet.

 

[el_super]

And yesterday, with 3% downtime, posted waits briefly hit 75 minutes:

How does it look today?

 

[Ayla]

Last time we did Deluxe hours it wasn’t much of a perk. In hindsight, there were a lot of people using LL, which didn’t make sense at the time but does now that some of the DAS abuse issues are more widely known. They were also less than vigilant in restricting ride access to Deluxe stays

When we did it, all our magic bands were scanned at every ride before we could even enter the line.

 

[JD80]

I would think that attendance at MK this weekend alone should be enough to force some change. Like @lentesta said, a 1/10 on a major US Holiday has to be some sort of unprecedented record (and not in a good way).

If they want to get people into their hotels they need to do at least some of the following things:

• Bring back bags/magical express (not sure how they bring back bags since the company went under but try to figure it out - it's TWDC, they can do it if they want)
• Restore some sort of semblance of EMH's in their traditional format (not just for Deluxe guests in the evenings)
• They've GOT to do something about the Genie, although I know they'll never want to give up that revenue (maybe this is a buy x days get x days free type thing if you're staying on site
• They need to lower ticket prices for people staying on property - often times we talk about going down for a quick trip, but it's the ticket costs that deter us, not the hotel prices (because you can often get a decent hotel discount at a value/moderate which is fine for a quick trip).

Long term yes to all those perks. Short term is all cost. WDW can't add enough perks to justify the cost of hotels. They either need to create packages with room, tickets and dining to hide discounts or just flat out reduce costs.

Can't wait for Christmas season where the party is busier than normal ops.

 

[JD80]

That makes sense. Pretty sure we've made the comparison in this thread before, but it's also aligned with the downturn in theater audiences (since this weekend was a bust at the Box Office). It's almost like a certain demographic just wants to NOT be confined in an area with a lot of strangers....



This thread has been here for a year now. What's changed in the last year? Not a whole lot. I'm thinking they're going to stay the course. They must have the signals indicating that their current plan is working in their favor, over whatever bad news you think you have.



Yes. It makes sense that they would rather take a day of bad attendance ( which must have been magical for any of the guests and cast working that day ) than to keep conditioning people on this idea of cheap / free admission.

Actually when thinking about it, I wonder if this is actually a good indicator of why this is such a uniquely exaggerated problem in Central Florida: So many people living in the area are connected to the theme park business and KNOW someone that can get them in for so cheap, that too much of the attendance at the parks was dragging down the per-Cap Spending (or are we going with ARPU now?)

Few changes where they are tiptoeing where they need to be leaping.

Free Dining is back.
4x park tickets for $100 each.

It's frankly not enough. But I was able to quote a friend a party of 2 at AKL for 5 nights and 4 tix for like 3000 something bucks 1 or 2 months ago for June.

 

[flynnibus]

Here's the waits for 7DMT on Memorial Day in 2024 and 2023.

2023, which had no ride downtime (and thus did not need to delay standby guests in order to serve LL guests) saw peak posted waits of 120 minutes. Actuals were lower.

View attachment 787995

And yesterday, with 3% downtime, posted waits briefly hit 75 minutes:

View attachment 787996

What I see is you need more crowdsourced mules! Time to sweeten the pot

 

[Willmark]

They don't want to keep broadcasting that their product can be had cheaply. That does far more damage to the brand overall, because then you end up with an audience conditioned to wait for the discounts. They will keep prices high and wait.

And the audience can simply wait.

Disney is not a need, it’s a want. Needs take priority like gas, food, housing.

In other words Disney can wait all they want. Customers if for no other reason then they have to not go because of finances will wait longer.

That’s not to say the customer wants to wait, more so they might be forced to/have to do so.

 

[JD80]

Disney is never going to reduce the cost of their product outright. They are realistically only going to do two things broadly:

1) Offer enough perks and new experiences to justify the cost. (tough to do at this point to a broader audiance)
2) Hide the reduction in cost in larger packages.

Said this before is this thread, but I'm willing to bet if things get worse we'll see cruise like packages for WDW which includes room, tickets and food in a giant package deal where they don't disclose the cost of the parts. Might even be something like $5000 gets you and 3 guests 6 nights 7 days at a WDW moderate (of WDW's choosing) with a Quick Service Dining Plan and 4 park tickets for one day at each park.

Ignore the numbers, but that's how I would do it and it's very easy to sell that as a TA as long as the price point is there. It would have to amount to something like mashing up the following discounts all in one without disclosing them

• Kids eat free
• 35-45% discount on hotel room
• $100 tickets
• Free memory maker

 

[Nubs70]

And the audience can simply wait.

Disney is not a need, it’s a want. Needs take priority like gas, food, housing.

In other words Disney can wait all they want. Customers if for no other reason then they have to not go because of finances will wait longer.

That’s not to say the customer wants to wait, more so they might be forced to/have to do so.

The issue I see is that:
1.MCO had the highest passenger count in
history this weekend.
2. Indications that resort occupancy is low.
3. WDW park attendance being low.

This tells me that WDW has lost it's % of MCO traffic. It could be that people still came but drove to save money and stayed off site. However, with both resort occupancy and park attendance low, money savers did not come in.

It is clear people are still traveling but they are choosing to travel to places other than WDW.

 

[UNCgolf]

The issue I see is that:
1.MCO had the highest passenger count in
history this weekend.
2. Indications that resort occupancy is low.
3. WDW park attendance being low.

This tells me that WDW has lost it's % of MCO traffic. It could be that people still came but drove to save money and stayed off site. However, with both resort occupancy and park attendance low, money savers did not come in.

It is clear people are still traveling but they are choosing to travel to places other than WDW.

It seems like the crowds at Universal were relatively low too, though, so apparently people weren't going through MCO for theme parks at all.

Which is a bit strange.

 

[Tha Realest]

When we did it, all our magic bands were scanned at every ride before we could even enter the line.

Yes. Which happened, then the guests staying at POR pleaded their case to the cast member who let them in anyway.

 

[Drdcm]

I’d like to do EMH again, but can’t justify the cost of the deluxe resorts. I can always dream they try to lure people back by expanding it again

 

[Jrb1979]

It seems like the crowds at Universal were relatively low too, though, so apparently people weren't going through MCO for theme parks at all.

Which is a bit strange.

Not necessarily. SeaWorld was really busy all weekend.

 

[Tha Realest]

The issue I see is that:
1.MCO had the highest passenger count in
history this weekend.
2. Indications that resort occupancy is low.
3. WDW park attendance being low.

This tells me that WDW has lost it's % of MCO traffic. It could be that people still came but drove to save money and stayed off site. However, with both resort occupancy and park attendance low, money savers did not come in.

It is clear people are still traveling but they are choosing to travel to places other than WDW.

Also suggests one of the biggest variables in WDW vacations - cost of airfare, which they have no control over - is not an obstacle to them. And yet they still couldn’t pull in an expected %% of those guests

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Magic Kingdom was a crowd level '1' (out of 10, 10=highest) on Memorial Day. I think that's unprecedented.

• EPCOT = 8 / 10
• DHS = 4
• DAK = 5
• Disneyland = 8
• DCA = 9
• Universal Studios Florida = 9
• IOA = 5

What is far and away the most interesting part to me is that it's the lowest of the Disney parks. I wonder what the reasoning would be that you are seeing such a larger dip at MK compared to Epcot/DHS/DAK. Were there blackouts for just MK from pass holders/cast?

Epcot/DHS/DAK have more drinking/dining options(?) and this holiday has become more about eating & drinking?

It was exceptionally hot that weekend, maybe parents with little kids (more likely to go to MK) thought better of it(?)

People (like me) assume it would be packed and don’t even consider going (?) Are we just trending in that direction like Labor Day?

The type of folks most upset with Disney right now are also more likely to prioritize Memorial Day, and therefore go elsewhere (?)

The real winner of the weekend seems to have been Epcot which... I mean.... who knows why.

Again, drinking around the world? Had I been there for the holiday, that likely would have been my pick. Almost an “outdoor cookout with neighbors” vibe.

Longshot: could there have been a glitch in the park reservation system?

IMO, all their data is less valuable if they don’t use it. They could have reacted to low park reservations by relaxing blockout restrictions.

They could publish not just which parks are available, but generally how full they will be based on those reservations. (As simple as a Mickey head showing half-full, 3/4 full, etc.)

IDK if non-Floridians realize how bad property taxes and insurance are down here. Our little home mortgage just went up by $700/month. It made me realize we’re never secure even if the house is paid off. That’s why rents have gone nuts. It has to affect hotels.

But the hotels at WDW are overpriced to a point that seems even more out of line than pre-Covid, and we always get 20-35% off whether via FL residency or AP. If we didn’t have Chase Visa points, we would definitely stay offsite more often.

 

[davis_unoxx]

Lowest Memorial Day Saturday and Monday since we started saving data in 2009.

Wow lower than 2009 even after the stock market crash of 08, that’s interesting.

What happens to Disney if we have a real recession?

 

[UNCgolf]

Not necessarily. SeaWorld was really busy all weekend.

Busy for SeaWorld has to lag significantly behind busy for Disney or Universal, though. Not that either resort was dead, with EPCOT at an 8/10 for crowds and USF at 9/10, but certainly not as busy overall across the parks as you'd expect for a holiday weekend.

 

[Lilofan]

Wow lower than 2009 even after the stock market crash of 08, that’s interesting.

What happens to Disney if we have a real recession?

What recession ? Dow and Nasdaq at record highs, real estate prices high and I'm liking my assets more and more..