Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

flynnibus

Premium Member
Wait times are a function of:
1. The number of people in the queue.
2. Seats per minute thruput.

You are assuming a single finite queue. That’s not reality in wdw. Majority of attractions have two queues, one of which can be very fluid… and compounding that problem, that queue which you don’t know how many people are actually going to enter… has higher priority than the queue’s time you are trying to estimate.

For LL you are always working with at best, an estimate based on upper bounds and probabilities.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Time between vehicles is rarely constant and can vary wildly at some attractions. Attractions like POTC and FEA do not dispatch at constant intervals. Attractions like HM and SSE stop and slow at random times for random lengths to accommodate guests. Some attractions have numbers of vehicles that may fluctuate during operation.

But those variations can be included in the sample. It’s not hard for a system to calculate an operational avg they are sustaining and use that for estimates.

A running avg for the last 20mins is an easy answer to your variation concern. The ride throughout doesn’t have to stay people accurate over time (unlike the people in queue problem).

Filling all seats is always a goal but for many attractions an operational impossibility. Largely dictated by party sizes.

Another problem that doesn’t require precision to be used for estimates. You can track an operational avg over multiple samples… the bigger the sample the more accurate. But counting vehicles is kinda the wrong way to do this anyway… count body throughput.
 

natatomic

Well-Known Member
If the times were accurate but not precise, as mentioned prior, their should be an equal amount of measurements that are greater and lower than the actual wait.

It would be rather simple to measure with optical switches at entry and exit of queues.

Entry - exit = # persons

Ride vehicles have a # of seats. Optical/positional switches are already in place. This can derive the # of seats per minute passing by, or seat per minute.

Wait Time = [Entry - Exit]/ Seats per minute.

When a money making entity has a perverse incentive to manipulate data to their financial benefit and a simple transparent solution exists, I will.side.with the consumer every time.
Here’s a fun (🥴) story I’ve never shared on here. I worked at Everest quite a bit ago, but for multiple years. We had counters at the exit (they were over head as you walked into see your on-ride photos) to measure our OHRC. Whenever we ever had hours we could tell we weren’t going to hit our OHRC*, the managers and coordinators (or they would delegate this to “tasking” CMs) would walk through the exit, through the gift shop, through the gate by single rider, back to the unload platform and make the circle again multiple times.

Don’t know if it’s a continued practice or if other attractions have ways of faking their numbers, but that definitely was a regular occurrence while I was there.

*This only occurred when we had a steady line. They weren’t pushing us to do this when we had a walk-on wait, in which case we were not expected to hit our OHRC regardless.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
No, @HauntedPirate is correct. It rarely gets 100+ in Orlando. According to the National Weather Service Orlando has only hit 100 twice in the last 24 years, on 6/19/2015 and 8/12/2023. So no it wasn't 105 the first week of July last year.
It was brutal today….not sure an extra degree or two would matter?
Did not MCO have the most passengers ever on thr 24th?
They must be at Olde Town?
 

Mem11

Active Member
It was brutal today….not sure an extra degree or two would matter?
Yep, once you hit the mid 90's with relative humidity above 50%, you're getting in the danger zone...
HeatIndexChart-650.jpg
 

lentesta

Premium Member
In modern times… optical people detection would be the most effective way to accurately track actual ride counts (can operate independently of the ride system). Tracking people in queue accurately is going to be a very fuzzy problem because a system that works by counting in and out will always be exposed to accumulating errors. There is no easy way in operations to ‘reset’ your count.

IIRC UOR's got this or is installing it. And good point about accumulating errors. I think they reset counts hourly, but I could be wrong.
 

lentesta

Premium Member
Just throwing this out there before heading out for Memorial Day:

The Magic Kingdom's crowd level of 2 for yesterday (May 26, the Saturday of Memorial Day Weekend) is the lowest crowd level we've observed for that park since we started keeping records in 2010.​

EPCOT was an 8. DHS was a 5. AK was a 6, and those are all in line with past observations.

I'm going to count some MK queues this week to see what's going on.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Remember that temperatures are measured in the shade.

The cumulative effects of direct sunlight, clothing, radiating heat from asphalt/concrete/buildings/etc., aren't factored into that.

I think we've measured the ground in Adventureland at near 130F. That's enough to cook steak.
The surface temp is no joke. Before we lock our car at the parking lot , we use towels to cover our leather seats , leather steering wheel etc. Interior temps inside car can cook bacon and eggs right on the leather seat. 3 days in June one year I had a complete reroof. For 3 days 5 roofers looking like ninjas worked 8-4 only taking a 30 min break to sit in their work van to have lunch. I advised these hard workers in Spanish if they needed to use my bathroom just let me know . They never did , their work van never left my driveway during those 3 days. The temps each day was 98,95,96. Up on the roof was surely triple digits. They did a great job. Who knows , maybe my landscaping got fertilized during that time.
 
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natatomic

Well-Known Member
Just throwing this out there before heading out for Memorial Day:

The Magic Kingdom's crowd level of 2 for yesterday (May 26, the Saturday of Memorial Day Weekend) is the lowest crowd level we've observed for that park since we started keeping records in 2010.​

EPCOT was an 8. DHS was a 5. AK was a 6, and those are all in line with past observations.

I'm going to count some MK queues this week to see what's going on.
How much is variable pricing affecting attendance? Are people avoiding the more expensive days? Does the variable pricing help even out the crowds, or do cheaper days tend to be busier than expensive days (depending on time of year…I’d imagine July 4, Christmas/New Year’s weeks will always be busy for the most part).

I’m sure this has already been brought up, but I'm just now hoping in this conversation.
 

Mem11

Active Member
Remember that temperatures are measured in the shade.

The cumulative effects of direct sunlight, clothing, radiating heat from asphalt/concrete/buildings/etc., aren't factored into that.

I think we've measured the ground in Adventureland at near 130F. That's enough to cook steak.
Absolutely, Central Florida can be brutal in the summer, the average daily high in July is 92. Gonna be a lot of unpleasant days every year.

No matter the time of year our strategy has always been rope drop, out before noon, back to the resort, nap or pool and then back to the parks sometime between 4 and 5.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Just throwing this out there before heading out for Memorial Day:

The Magic Kingdom's crowd level of 2 for yesterday (May 26, the Saturday of Memorial Day Weekend) is the lowest crowd level we've observed for that park since we started keeping records in 2010.​

EPCOT was an 8. DHS was a 5. AK was a 6, and those are all in line with past observations.

I'm going to count some MK queues this week to see what's going on.
We were in 3…Epcot was the worst…but not really that awful
 

CAV

Well-Known Member
Defcon 3 or 4 had to be when we were there shortly after 9/11. At MGM , Fantasmic only performed a few nights a week and Prime Time was open on Tue Thu Sat and and Hollywood and Vine was open on Mon Wed Fri Sun as some of the cutbacks.
And Tony's Town Square eliminated the free cinnamon roll appetizer when they opened back up for breakfast
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
How much is variable pricing affecting attendance? Are people avoiding the more expensive days? Does the variable pricing help even out the crowds, or do cheaper days tend to be busier than expensive days (depending on time of year…I’d imagine July 4, Christmas/New Year’s weeks will always be busy for the most part).

I’m sure this has already been brought up, but I'm just now hoping in this conversation.
You think $10 here and there really puts a dent in a $8,000 week?
 

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