Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[GhostHost1000]

And Disney parks were cheap and easily accessible for a long time. That's why MK went from 10M a year to 20M a year. THAT was unsustainable for a number of reasons.

They're price correcting right now. They're making the parks generally more expensive and harder to access because cramming more and more people down Main Street is not the answer.

If they can convert some people/families from going once a year to once every three or five years, they will be far better off.

They are not price correcting. It’s because they have backed themselves into a corner because of mismanagement not expanding the parks and capacity therefore having to raise prices this high to both reduce guests but also retain spending numbers…but that’s not long term sustainable and forecasts are showing that.

They also wouldn’t have to cram more and more people down Main Street if they had more places for them and more offerings and attractions to go to in every park

 

[GhostHost1000]

And they will be back in a few years. If the pandemic proved anything, absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Actually, many that returned post Covid have felt and seen many changes at the parks and resorts in addition to all the price hikes (with less offerings) and have decided they are done.

There have been record numbers of DVC resales as well and that is some of your most loyal fanbase. If they are selling their contracts, they aren’t coming back.

 

[MaximumEd]

And Disney parks were cheap and easily accessible for a long time. That's why MK went from 10M a year to 20M a year. THAT was unsustainable for a number of reasons.

They're price correcting right now. They're making the parks generally more expensive and harder to access because cramming more and more people down Main Street is not the answer.

If they can convert some people/families from going once a year to once every three or five years, they will be far better off.

They’ve converted us. We have a September trip planned, but haven’t been since 2020. I’m sure you think that’s great for Disney and the customer, but they are pricing out their core customer base. Not a good long term strategy for a place that lives and dies by room occupancy and gate clicks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

“Musings of a self appointed, know nothing genius”

…coming to D+ this holiday season

 

[Lilofan]

They’ve converted us. We have a September trip planned, but haven’t been since 2020. I’m sure you think that’s great for Disney and the customer, but they are pricing out their core customer base. Not a good long term strategy for a place that lives and dies by room occupancy and gate clicks.

Bring your ponchos or else buy the overpriced ones at the parks. On any given day you will go from dry to wet wet to dry several times a day and meet new friends when fellow guests cram into a merchandise location or the closest bathroom.

 

[pigglewiggle]

Ebb and flow.

Right now they are in an ebb and we hope to take advantage of low crowds with our early holiday trip.

Unfortunately for us our cruise/Universal trip is going to be in a FLOW.

 

[mikejs78]

I don't think people by and large are done with Disney. I don't see that in interactions with people I know. Sure there are some of those but I don't think that is the core reason for the low crowds. There are a number of factors at play.

I do think (and see a lot of evidence in my circles) that people are spreading out trips due to the higher prices coupled with the mass inflation of the past couple of years. People who were every 1-3 year visitors are now every 4-5 year visitors. That thins out crowds. The lack of any major new offerings is also a factor.

As far as the resorts, prices are certainly a component, but I think for resorts it's coupled with a loss of perks in recent years. Early (and free) FastPass, extra magic hours, and, most importantly in my view, Magical Express. In a lot of people's minds, losing those benefits coupled with the rising prices made the hotels less worth it for a lot of people. If Disney is seeing softer demand at their hotels, besides discounts, they need to consider adding back the perks that differentiated a Disney hotel stay.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't think people by and large are done with Disney. I don't see that in interactions with people I know. Sure there are some of those but I don't think that is the core reason for the low crowds. There are a number of factors at play.

I do think (and see a lot of evidence in my circles) that people are spreading out trips due to the higher prices coupled with the mass inflation of the past couple of years. People who were every 1-3 year visitors are now every 4-5 year visitors. That thins out crowds. The lack of any major new offerings is also a factor.

As far as the resorts, prices are certainly a component, but I think for resorts it's coupled with a loss of perks in recent years. Early (and free) FastPass, extra magic hours, and, most importantly in my view, Magical Express. In a lot of people's minds, losing those benefits coupled with the rising prices made the hotels less worth it for a lot of people. If Disney is seeing softer demand at their hotels, besides discounts, they need to consider adding back the perks that differentiated a Disney hotel stay.

Who said anything about “done with Disney”?

They’ve driven away some of the core…both permanently and in terms of frequency - as you say.

Their prices have become more of a “barrier to entry” than it ever was…huge parts of a potential customer base that can’t get to the bottom of the ladder. And we are just starting with the consumer debt crisis.

There are other issues…but those are the biggest.

And remember a small attendance drop at the flagship is a major financial problem for the whole operation.

 

[threvester]

Im here now and was also here last mothers day week. It is noticeably busier this year. Not even close

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I don't think people by and large are done with Disney.

I agree. I for one am very dissapointed with the way Disney is running things. But in fairness, it could be for a couple of reasons.

1) It's a different world now than it was back in what I consider to be Disney's heyday of the 80's and 90's. So it could be partly on me for not wanting to adapt to the change that the last decade or two has brought. At least not fully. I've seen the resorts get bigger, the birth of the DVC movement and the gobbling up of space at nearly every resort on property, the implementation of FP, MM+, Genie+, and the ever increasing crowds.

2) The Disney Bubble no longer exists. The interaction stinks, the personalization stinks, and the revered "Disney customer service" is no better/no worse than I get at Universal, SeaWorld, Legoland, or a random attraction along the I-Drive corridor. Sure there are there benefits to staying on property, but the appeal of immersing yourself in that Disney experience/culture isn't there anymore

But to bring it full circle, am I done with Disney? No. I just visit differently now. I have no qualms about spending money outside the gates, and I sure as hell don't have a semblance of the loyalty to the brand or the place I once had. But I will still go because I've found that if I lower my expectations a bit it's still an enjoyable getaway for someone who lives 2 hours away.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Who said anything about “done with Disney”?

They’ve driven away some of the core…born permanently and in terms of frequency - as you say.

Their price is a has become more of a “barrier to entry” than it ever was…huge parts of a potential customer base that can’t get to the bottom of the ladder. And we are just starting with the consumer debt crisis.

There are other issues…but those are the biggest.

And remember a small attendance drop at the flagship is a major financial problem for the whole operation.

There's also the fact that for the first timer, there are a lot of "hidden costs" that while not mandatory, can impact the enjoyment of your stay.

And let's not forget that somebody at Disney decided to turn the stress dial past 10 and some people are absolutely losing it on their "vacation". I've seen it. Sometimes it starts early, when they approach the parking lot and see what it's going to cost them to park and realize that it's in addition to several Ben Franklins they've already spent on admission. And then it just goes downhill from there. It just seems to me that the entire model is now predicated on acquisition and retention isn't even a thought for them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

. It just seems to me that the entire model is now predicated on acquisition and retention isn't even a thought for them.

They would tell you that’s not true.

But they would also say - erroneously - that “delivering on the brand” is all the customer wants and price is irrelevant

In the BIG, blue ocean, Nemo

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

“But they would also say - erroneously - that delivering on the brand” is all the customer wants and price is irrelevant

Worked like a charm with Galactic Star Cruiser. The didn't deliver and price was not irrelevant. Cracker jack job they did with that one.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Worked like a charm with Galactic Star Cruiser. The didn't deliver and price was not irrelevant. Cracker jack job they did with that one.

Might be that people didn’t want to pat themselves on the back to pay through the nose to “live” in 3 wretched movies?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Im here now and was also here last mothers day week. It is noticeably busier this year. Not even close

It was dead 3 days ago…based on reports here…interesting?

Are you just there on the weekend?

 

[Nubs70]

WDW does not meet my value proposition.

 

[Laketravis]

It was dead 3 days ago…based on reports here…interesting?

Are you just there on the weekend?

I've only been three times since early December and would have to say this last time (5/5 - 5/10) was the least busiest period.

But the Standby times in every park were just as high if not higher than I've seen in the past with lighter crowds. It's really a strange situation.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I've only been three times since early December and would have to say this last time (5/5 - 5/10) was the least busiest period.

But the Standby times in every park were just as high if not higher than I've seen in the past with lighter crowds. It's really a strange situation.

They try to convince people to pay for G+ with inflated wait times and slower throughput capacity

 

[BrianLo]

Basically Riviera, right?

Seriously though, CB is the only Moderate they don't have any trouble booking currently.

Sounds like the Skyliner was a big solution for at least those impacted resorts. Transport is the way to bring people back.

A ‘small’ Riverside DVC conversion would probably be quite well received. Not sure if that’s one of the problems or not. I feel like the cabins have demonstrated the problems with moderates. If you make a points chart to match, the maintenance fees are through the roof.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sounds like the Skyliner was a big solution for at least those impacted resorts. Transport is the way to bring people back.

A ‘small’ Riverside DVC conversion would probably be quite well received. Not sure if that’s one of the problems or not. I feel like the cabins have demonstrated the problems with moderates. If you make a points chart to match, the maintenance fees are through the roof.

Ugh…we don’t say these things out loud!!