Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Laketravis]

I'm seeing a relatively higher number of conference goers at the deluxe resorts. And a large percentage of people in the parks are foreigners. Increased presence of DVC marketing collateral everywhere.

Resorts seem empty. Table serves only half full, if that. No lines at concessions. And paying $3 for a 25 cent Mickey pretzel was almost obligatory. Now, at $8.25 for that same pretzel it's apparently a strong hell no.

 

[wannabeBelle]

Just wait until they discover that Royal has a better product at a better price…

From what I saw on the last group cruise that KK did, we had a number of kids on the cruise with us and they loved our Royal sailing on the Wonder of the Seas. Marie

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just wait until they discover that Royal has a better product at a better price…

…oh I carry that banner too. It’s not really close with the last 2 superclasses…

Don’t tell Chuck

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

From what I saw on the last group cruise that KK did, we had a number of kids on the cruise with us and they loved our Royal sailing on the Wonder of the Seas. Marie

You really can’t compare the amenities of an Oasis class ship to Disney boat…makes them look like the good ship lollipops

 

[pigglewiggle]

I would be shocked if we see any strategy shifts this year. They'll keep peddling out new discounts in hopes of getting a few tire-kickers to convert, but it's going to be a soft summer and fall across the resort... there will be some decent deals for out-of-state travelers if they aren't too picky. And perhaps some great deals for locals.

Extrapolating, it seems like they've tied their hopes to an overall uptick for Orlando next year due to EU.

Force Majeure.

We don't think there will be a discount the week after Thanksgiving this eyar. The free dining starts the week after that, so perhaps people will book that week.
So all that taken into consideration, along with what may be a significant amount of ride closures (at least 3 big ones possibly), the soft forecast, perhaps we will have a more relaxed trip, with lower crowds. That may be really nice.

 

[AEfx]

In seeing some of the comparisons, particularly when it comes to perception of crowd levels - I think it needs noting that how the crowd levels "feel" because of congestion in walkways and such is not a good meter. Things have drastically changed over just the last 5 - 10 years - let alone 15 - 20 ago - when it comes to how crowds are distributed.

There are way more people filling those walkways and other areas that used to be "invisible" standing in queues. Even back in the days of regular old paper FP. There are so many people just milling about on their phones between ride reservations and waiting for food orders, etc. that aren't any more. So when you see full walkways and such now, it's not an even comparison - and when you see sparse walkways at times now - it's a lot more dire than you might think.

 

[hopemax]

Which is a problem, because Disney obviously wants more people in the park, but where do you put them? What attractions can they visit? Without bumping another guest? How can you add all these new people without worsening the experience of the people who are already there, and find the experience crowded and frustrating at these levels?

At every stage of FP, I would try to talk about capacity, especially E-ticket capacity, being a limiting condition for the park, in terms of attendance. Once those seats are distributed / sold out, how do you attract more people to come in the front door? It was a hard sell, because people think it isn't a problem, "cause they knew the tips and tricks to score their rides," so everyone else just needed to "plan better." Now, it's pretty obvious, isn't it? More people are asking why even go, if it's going to cost an inordinate amount of money just to get in the door, and then even more to have a chance at getting a LL for a few rides without long waits?

Despite the hesitation from the fan-base that the plans like Beyond Big Thunder are real, I think Burbank is finally starting to understand that TDO cut bone to score highly on things like utilization statistics, and control operations spending and now they don't have seats to sell to new people when they have this shiny system designed to sell seats.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We don't think there will be a discount the week after Thanksgiving this eyar. The free dining starts the week after that, so perhaps people will book that week.
So all that taken into consideration, along with what may be a significant amount of ride closures (at least 3 big ones possibly), the soft forecast, perhaps we will have a more relaxed trip, with lower crowds. That may be really nice.

I think you misread that post you quoted…there are discounts all over the place and expect that to continue

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In seeing some of the comparisons, particularly when it comes to perception of crowd levels - I think it needs noting that how the crowd levels "feel" because of congestion in walkways and such is not a good meter. Things have drastically changed over just the last 5 - 10 years - let alone 15 - 20 ago - when it comes to how crowds are distributed.

There are way more people filling those walkways and other areas that used to be "invisible" standing in queues. Even back in the days of regular old paper FP. There are so many people just milling about on their phones between ride reservations and waiting for food orders, etc. that aren't any more. So when you see full walkways and such now, it's not an even comparison - and when you see sparse walkways at times now - it's a lot more dire than you might think.

I agree…

The problem is there alot of days racking up where the concourses are empty…

That’s an even bigger indictment of declining attendance.

We had pictures posted today of an empty studios.

No people = no money

 

[pigglewiggle]

I think you misread that post you quoted…there are discounts all over the place and expect that to continue

I thought it said 2025, we are going 2024. But I will certainly take a resort discount if offered!

 

[Lilofan]

I'm seeing a relatively higher number of conference goers at the deluxe resorts. And a large percentage of people in the parks are foreigners. Increased presence of DVC marketing collateral everywhere.

Resorts seem empty. Table serves only half full, if that. No lines at concessions. And paying $3 for a 25 cent Mickey pretzel was almost obligatory. Now, at $8.25 for that same pretzel it's apparently a strong hell no.

One area that seemed like an abundance of foreign tourists ( ie Brazil ) was at the Orlando Premium outlets on International Drive. One fellow guest I saw bought approx 50 pairs of Nike shoes at the Nike outlet. . He advised he would resell in Brazil. This was pre 2020. Shopping was a destination alongside going to WDW, SW and Uni.

 

[Grimley1968]

HS right now. And RoTR has been down for over an hour. RRnC is closed and ToT has a posted 50 minute wait.

And it's only 85 degrees

Wow. That is wall to wall ... air.

 

[lentesta]

I've been here since Monday in 3 different parks and it appears neither Disney nor TP are all that accurate. Disney runs on the pessimistic side while TP has been overly optimistic.

In terms of overall accuracy, posted times have been closer to actual than TP.

Yeah, we've overpredicted for the last month at MK and EP. DHS had been okay until last week. Updates are on the way.

 

[lentesta]

Curious how bookings on the cruise line are. My guess is that they are strong, even with them being double the price of more budget friendly lines.

Very strong cruise bookings.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Very strong cruise bookings.

That isn't surprising to me, at least. Back in 2019, I did some napkin math after coming home from a 7-night cruise on the Fantasy. For our family of 6, it was cheaper to do that 7-night cruise on the Fantasy than it would have been for a comparable trip to the parks for the 6 of us - 7 day park hoppers, 7 table service meals, 7 quick service meals, plus snacks, drinks, and one in-room meal each day. And that was including using DVC points for the hotel (not counting maintenance fees, that seemed pretty silly). Granted, cruise prices have increased since then, but I can't imagine the price increases have been dramatic enough to tip the scales in a dramatic way.

 

[pigglewiggle]

That isn't surprising to me, at least. Back in 2019, I did some napkin math after coming home from a 7-night cruise on the Fantasy. For our family of 6, it was cheaper to do that 7-night cruise on the Fantasy than it would have been for a comparable trip to the parks for the 6 of us - 7 day park hoppers, 7 table service meals, 7 quick service meals, plus snacks, drinks, and one in-room meal each day. And that was including using DVC points for the hotel (not counting maintenance fees, that seemed pretty silly). Granted, cruise prices have increased since then, but I can't imagine the price increases have been dramatic enough to tip the scales in a dramatic way.

We have a (non-Disney) cruise booked in a suite area on a new ship and it's still cheaper than our upcoming Disney trip.
But comparably - Disney cruises are more expensive with less to offer (in our opinion) than other cruise lines with better accommodations.

Although Treasure looks very interesting.

 

[DisneyRoy]

I thought it said 2025, we are going 2024. But I will certainly take a resort discount if offered!

Just got a great discount today. Already had a POR visit booked for 10 days in July with a discount from earlier in the year. The new 30% off deluxe rooms allowed me to change to Yacht club for only $1000 for 10 days. I thought that was a steal and took it.

 

[DisneyRoy]

That isn't surprising to me, at least. Back in 2019, I did some napkin math after coming home from a 7-night cruise on the Fantasy. For our family of 6, it was cheaper to do that 7-night cruise on the Fantasy than it would have been for a comparable trip to the parks for the 6 of us - 7 day park hoppers, 7 table service meals, 7 quick service meals, plus snacks, drinks, and one in-room meal each day. And that was including using DVC points for the hotel (not counting maintenance fees, that seemed pretty silly). Granted, cruise prices have increased since then, but I can't imagine the price increases have been dramatic enough to tip the scales in a dramatic way.

I just can't justify the prices of Disney cruises. I could do 8 days at Pop for 1/2 the price of a 4 day Disney cruise. We did our one Disney cruise. But for the price, we will be doing Royal in the future.

 

[disneyflush]

They have only one “lever” left to pull that they are resisting…all the other gimmicks aren’t really working…including the old “free dining” gag.

Ok, what is this last "lever"?

 

[hopemax]

The best cruise deals seem to be the ones in other parts of the world. Not a lot of families can pay for the cruise and the airfare to get there / home. When we did the first Trans-Atlantic cruise, they were almost giving it away at the end... because the flight home from Barcelona wasn't cheap. But if you are a childfree Disney Adult, sitting on a stack of credit card points / airline miles, it might be worth an investigation. I didn't investigate, because it was the same time as our Tokyo trip, but I think I saw fairly recently there are some amazing Fall deals on the repo cruises from Alaska to Hawaii, and then Hawaii to Sydney.