Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[HauntedPirate]

I would be shocked if we see any strategy shifts this year. They'll keep peddling out new discounts in hopes of getting a few tire-kickers to convert, but it's going to be a soft summer and fall across the resort... there will be some decent deals for out-of-state travelers if they aren't too picky. And perhaps some great deals for locals.

Extrapolating, it seems like they've tied their hopes to an overall uptick for Orlando next year due to EU.

Force Majeure.

If your extrapolation proves to be correct, that's a first - Disney is tying their attendance hopes to the parks up the freeway. That would be, for me, jaw dropping, and an indication that they have truly lost their way. And in the category of something I never, ever expected to read about in my lifetime.

Thanks, Bob.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If your extrapolation proves to be correct, that's a first - Disney is tying their attendance hopes to the parks up the freeway. That would be, for me, jaw dropping, and an indication that they have truly lost their way. And in the category of something I never, ever expected to read about in my lifetime.

Thanks, Bob.

Taking a backseat to anyone else in the market is becoming old hat for them…

 

[PREMiERdrum]

2025 TA rates are 50% or more off of rack, with hardly anything in the way of date or resort restrictions.

EDIT: This is how the deal is labeled, but comparing these rates to published rates the discount appears to be much greater than that.

 

[Laketravis]

Not according to the Touring Plans app. Looks like wait times by actual people in the park is pretty close to what Disney has with Disney generally being about 5-10ish minutes too long which seems right in line with what they have been doing for years with their official posted wait times.

May not be very busy but it doesn't look any more or less inflated than usual.

I've been here since Monday in 3 different parks and it appears neither Disney nor TP are all that accurate. Disney runs on the pessimistic side while TP has been overly optimistic.

In terms of overall accuracy, posted times have been closer to actual than TP.

 

[Laketravis]

Can't speak to today, but I was there last week and the wait times were pretty accurate. If anything, waits were often 5-10 minutes longer than posted. The number of people using G+ for everything from IASW to Figment was nuts.

Exactly my experience this week. And the number of people paying extra to avoid the standby line they paid to make longer is simply idiotic.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Exactly my experience this week. And the number of people paying extra to avoid the standby line they paid to make longer is simply idiotic.

That’s the high cost of low expectations

It will continue until the weasel is launched into the sun and a new philosophy arrives…which is unlikely to ever happen.

Can’t wait until the parks are sold to Bain Capital

 

[Laketravis]

HS right now. And RoTR has been down for over an hour. RRnC is closed and ToT has a posted 50 minute wait.

And it's only 85 degrees

 

[DisneyHead123]

Interesting to see confirmation that demand is "softening". I kept hearing anecdotal reports that it was but nothing in Disney pricing seemed to reflect that previously.

I think they'll be just fine in the long run. But in the short term, they have a few factors converging that probably makes a minor slump inevitable.

A certain segment of the population - let's say those that subscribe to Bentkey for children's programming - do not want to be seen at Disney right now for reasons I will not mention here. But in those circles, getting "caught" with a Disney parks photo on social media is a cause for consternation, not a bragging right. Even more so in this particular year, because of... stuff... happening in November.

Disney has a super avid fan community online but this works for and against them, I think. When perception of the company is negative, it gets discussed a lot and picked apart in great detail by super fans. And perception feels decidedly negative right now. Nobody likes budget cuts, and on top of that Genie+ is a bit of a disaster. A disaster that they have left unaddressed for going on three years now, while they've found time to raise prices and introduce "per park" Genies.

The country is having some kind of financial situation, although it's hard to label it. It seemed a recession was inevitable for years now. Somehow that hasn't really happened, but credit card debt has soared as inflation has become a big issue. During Covid common vacations suddenly because five figure expenditures, and people are probably thinking really hard about how they want to spend that kind of money.

I still think they're well positioned in this new world of "experience culture". A little startup can't just go out and build something like Disney to compete, they've built the parks up over decades. I think that the demand for entertainment and immersive experiences is going to continue to grow, and they'll be at the forefront of that. But in the short term, I can see crowds being lighter for awhile.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

HS right now. And RoTR has been down for over an hour. RRnC is closed and ToT has a posted 50 minute wait.

And it's only 85 degrees

No point even running rides with 8 people in the park…
Save that for after hours

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Interesting to see confirmation that demand is "softening". I kept hearing anecdotal reports that it was but nothing in Disney pricing seemed to reflect that previously.

I think they'll be just fine in the long run. But in the short term, they have a few factors converging that probably makes a minor slump inevitable.

A certain segment of the population - let's say those that subscribe to Bentkey for children's programming - do not want to be seen at Disney right now for reasons I will not mention here. But in those circles, getting "caught" with a Disney parks photo on social media is a cause for consternation, not a bragging right. Even more so in this particular year, because of... stuff... happening in November.

Disney has a super avid fan community online but this works for and against them, I think. When perception of the company is negative, it gets discussed a lot and picked apart in great detail by super fans. And perception feels decidedly negative right now. Nobody likes budget cuts, and on top of that Genie+ is a bit of a disaster. A disaster that they have left unaddressed for going on three years now, while they've found time to raise prices and introduce "per park" Genies.

The country is having some kind of financial situation, although it's hard to label it. It seemed a recession was inevitable for years now. Somehow that hasn't really happened, but credit card debt has soared as inflation has become a big issue. During Covid common vacations suddenly because five figure expenditures, and people are probably thinking really hard about how they want to spend that kind of money.

I still think they're well positioned in this new world of "experience culture". A little startup can't just go out and build something like Disney to compete, they've built the parks up over decades. I think that the demand for entertainment and immersive experiences is going to continue to grow, and they'll be at the forefront of that. But in the short term, I can see crowds being lighter for awhile.

It’s the price…not the politics. Disney is well aware of the cause but backed themselves into an impossible corner after 15 years of bad management

 

[Ayla]

Interesting to see confirmation that demand is "softening". I kept hearing anecdotal reports that it was but nothing in Disney pricing seemed to reflect that previously.

I think they'll be just fine in the long run. But in the short term, they have a few factors converging that probably makes a minor slump inevitable.

A certain segment of the population - let's say those that subscribe to Bentkey for children's programming - do not want to be seen at Disney right now for reasons I will not mention here. But in those circles, getting "caught" with a Disney parks photo on social media is a cause for consternation, not a bragging right. Even more so in this particular year, because of... stuff... happening in November.

Disney has a super avid fan community online but this works for and against them, I think. When perception of the company is negative, it gets discussed a lot and picked apart in great detail by super fans. And perception feels decidedly negative right now. Nobody likes budget cuts, and on top of that Genie+ is a bit of a disaster. A disaster that they have left unaddressed for going on three years now, while they've found time to raise prices and introduce "per park" Genies.

The country is having some kind of financial situation, although it's hard to label it. It seemed a recession was inevitable for years now. Somehow that hasn't really happened, but credit card debt has soared as inflation has become a big issue. During Covid common vacations suddenly because five figure expenditures, and people are probably thinking really hard about how they want to spend that kind of money.

I still think they're well positioned in this new world of "experience culture". A little startup can't just go out and build something like Disney to compete, they've built the parks up over decades. I think that the demand for entertainment and immersive experiences is going to continue to grow, and they'll be at the forefront of that. But in the short term, I can see crowds being lighter for awhile.

What a sad statement...allowing faceless nobodies to dictate where you take your vacation. Though it's amusing to think they think they have any kind of impact on attendance.

 

[el_super]

Interesting to see confirmation that demand is "softening". I kept hearing anecdotal reports that it was but nothing in Disney pricing seemed to reflect that previously.

I think that's the bit they were getting at... NOW that the demand is starting to pare back a bit, there will be a slow down in revenue growth and price increases. We will start to hit the new normal.

But in the short term, I can see crowds being lighter for awhile.

Yeah they will be fine... It's important to remember that the current slowdown/soft bookings seem to only be a Florida issue. Their international parks are doing fantastic business and per the last results, Disneyland is so crowded they are starting to loose money on it (that unfavorable attendance mix again).

 

[DisneyHead123]

It’s the price…not the politics. Disney is well aware of the cause but backed themselves into an impossible corner after 15 years of bad management

I think the impact of cultural stuff on attendance is greater than zero but won’t hazard a guess as to the overall impact.

 

[DisneyHead123]

What a sad statement...allowing faceless nobodies to dictate where you take your vacation. Though it's amusing to think they think they have any kind of impact on attendance.

In a strange way it’s like a throwback to my 80s childhood. Disney was The Big Baddie in certain circles then, then sometime after the new millennium they became the embodiment of classic Americana and Wholesome Family Fun.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I think that's the bit they were getting at... NOW that the demand is starting to pare back a bit, there will be a slow down in revenue growth and price increases. We will start to hit the new normal.

Yeah they will be fine... It's important to remember that the current slowdown/soft bookings seem to only be a Florida issue. Their international parks are doing fantastic business and per the last results, Disneyland is so crowded they are starting to loose money on it (that unfavorable attendance mix again).

Curious how bookings on the cruise line are. My guess is that they are strong, even with them being double the price of more budget friendly lines.

 

[rtmachine]

They could always increase resort stays at a higher price by giving 3 free fast passes....

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the impact of cultural stuff on attendance is greater than zero but won’t hazard a guess as to the overall impact.

I will venture a guess…because long ago I saw it…

It was zero then…it’s probably marginal and within the margin of error now due to increased polarization.

People gripe at the diner about politics…they don’t deny themselves travel.

But here’s the really kicker…they’ve raised the price of everything 300% in 20 years…where it costs mom and dad in the range of $10,000 per week. Along with every other skyrocketed cost? It’s too much.

Now some people of course are far raking that in and then some…but they can go to nicer places that aren’t a planning hassle crossed with a mid-western fair style meat market to rub elbows in

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Curious how bookings on the cruise line are. My guess is that they are strong, even with them being double the price of more budget friendly lines.

It’s become the new “enclave” for the Disney purists…the old guard that gobbled up dvc and now find the parks distasteful.

But their pricing only works because of the limited supply.

And Bob…being Bob…is gonna yutz with that too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They could always increase resort stays at a higher price by giving 3 free fast passes....

Let it go, Elsa

 

[monothingie]

It’s become the new “enclave” for the Disney purists…the old guard that gobbled up dvc and now find the parks distasteful.

But their pricing only works because of the limited supply.

And Bob…being Bob…is gonna yutz with that too.

Just wait until they discover that Royal has a better product at a better price…