Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Drdcm]

I never said you have poor taste. I thinking you’re making a leap there. I said the the food at WDW is overpriced and bad quality. You’ve decided to be offended because you like the food.

No… you said I eat at overpriced and mediocre restaurants. Apologize and I’ll let it go…

So the food costs at WDW are comparable to what it costs at home? You must eat at some really overpriced mediocre restaurants

 

[Miss Bella]

No… you said I eat at overpriced and mediocre restaurants. Apologize and I’ll let it go…

I’m going to stand by my opinion of WDW restaurants being overpriced and mediocre. Sorry.

 

[Drdcm]

I’m going to stand by my opinion of WDW restaurants being overpriced and mediocre. Sorry.

I’m not arguing with you on that. But you’re going to do what you’re going to do I guess. I gave you an opportunity to make things right and you chose not to

 

[Chi84]

I’m going to stand by my opinion of WDW restaurants being overpriced and mediocre. Sorry.

I don't think anyone is denying that some of the WDW restaurants are overpriced and mediocre, especially when it comes to quick service items like burgers and pizza that may be specifically made with kids in mind.

But you can't paint all the restaurants with so wide a brush. We had some outstanding meals at Topolino's Terrace, Jiko, Toledo and the Boathouse. Have you tried any of those places? The prices are pretty much on par with what we pay for similar meals in Chicago - maybe a little higher because of the location but not drastically so.

 

[AEfx]

Hmm, maybe Universal is struggling a bit too to offer BOGO on tickets during holiday season - plus can add a day at Volcano Bay for $25

Universal doesn't have the "Christmas" cache like Disney does, so I'm not surprised.

This is a local-oriented deal - specifying multiple times that they don't need to be consecutive days, and of course the Volcano Bay add-on since December isn't exactly the busiest time at a water park.

 

[AEfx]

But you can't paint all the restaurants with so wide a brush. We had some outstanding meals at Topolino's Terrace, Jiko, Toledo and the Boathouse. Have you tried any of those places? The prices are pretty much on par with what we pay for similar meals in Chicago - maybe a little higher because of the location but not drastically so.

I think it's more of the fact that most Disney sit-downs actually used to be pretty good if not better - so yes, there are still some good meals to be had, depending on your tastes - but they used to be the rule, not the exception.

If one looks at all the reviews from, say, the 2005 era - back when Disney Dining was at its height (just before the dining plan began the slow ruin of the parade), they describe amazing meals at just about all of the sit down experience at Disney. Remembering the food pron alone (before the advent of social media even) makes my mouth water right now, dining was really the focus of many trips for a lot of visitors. The quality, the variety, the portions - it was rare to leave a Disney sit-down without feeling you got your money's worth, even if it was pricey.

There are other factors, too - especially with the price perception. This largely depends on where you are coming from - if you live in a big city or some place where food is generally expensive, the prices at WDW have never seemed that unreasonable. If you come from other parts of the country or world where it isn't, you are going to think they are a lot higher. But even as someone who comes from the north east, where food has always been expensive, I can't justify the Disney price hikes PLUS the lack of quality and value that it used to feel was there. (Though food isn't alone, the same can be said for most of the WDW experience these days.)

One other thing I don't think gets mentioned enough either - expectations have changed a lot over the past decade or so when it comes to food in America. It used to be "oh, you get the real authentic cuisine at Epcot" and that was like, a thing - but in 2023, just about every small town in America (and certainly every place larger) has tons of authentic international and domestic cuisine choices. We have moved way past pizza and Americanized Chinese food being the only choices available to anyone outside of the major cities.

When the quality at home is going up, and the quality at WDW has gone down, it's not a huge mystery why Disney dining is now seen by many as an obligation, versus a pursuit worth half your vacation time to experience as it once was.

 

[Chi84]

When the quality at home is going up, and the quality at WDW has gone down, it's not a huge mystery why Disney dining is now seen by many as an obligation, versus a pursuit worth half your vacation time to experience as it once was.

I don’t know whether this is the case where you live, but in Chicago quality, variety and portion sizes have gone down since the pandemic.

On top of that, restaurants are adding service fees and surcharges to the check. In some cases it’s a 3 to 4% credit card surcharge, in others it’s around 3% for “employee health care.” You can ask to have some of those removed but they are automatically added.

Rick Bayless is adding a 20% service charge at his restaurants (so he can pay his servers a living wage) and stating that you can tip on top of that if you feel the service warrants it. Check out the prices at his signature-style Topolobompo.

At least I have some idea of what I’ll be paying at WDW.

 

[AEfx]

I don’t know whether this is the case where you live, but in Chicago quality, variety and portion sizes have gone down since the pandemic.

Sure, everyone is feeling that pinch - but the reduction at WDW started wayyyyyy before the pandemic.

I thought people were just being ornery at the time, but the dining plan really was the beginning of the end. Those first couple of years, though - back when quality was high and the dining plan was first introduced and it really was a deal (even for those that didn't get it for free) - those were some times I miss. The only complaint was too much food or too many choices.

But yes - I agree on food prices and quality just about everywhere in the post-pandemic age - we don't have time or frankly energy to eat out very often, but at least once or twice a week I take a look at menus at the zillions of restaurants with rave reviews out there we have locally, and I think about ordering - but when a couple of burgers and an app or two, or a couple of plates of authentic BBQ is going to run us $80-100 bucks with tax and tip, and I think about the actual amount of food we would be getting - even if we went in and sat down, I still just can't justify that amount of money on a single meal on your average Thursday night.

 

[MrPromey]

Not sure I would use a Big Mac chart to make the case, especially considering how much smaller they amake them now than they once did

Pay more get less or just pay more for the same or with less quality. That’s usually how it works. The companies aren’t going to take a hit for large increases in employee comp

How are they smaller?

When I worked at McDs as a teen in the early 90's, a Big Mac was made with two 1/10 pound meat patties. To the best of my knowledge, they still are.

The Big Mac used to seem bigger because it was born in an age when quarter pound burgers weren't yet much of a thing where now 1/3 pound and 1/2 pound are fairly common.

Of course, the size of the burger patty doesn't mean as much economically at wholesale as some might think since there are tons of ground beef out there. It's basically the byproduct of a cow after they get all those prime cuts everyone pays top dollar for and you'll get a lot more cheap ground beef off a cow than filets.

 

[Miss Bella]

Is anyone taking advantage of the discounts and planning a trip? If not why?

 

[HauntedPirate]

I think it's more of the fact that most Disney sit-downs actually used to be pretty good if not better - so yes, there are still some good meals to be had, depending on your tastes - but they used to be the rule, not the exception.

If one looks at all the reviews from, say, the 2005 era - back when Disney Dining was at its height (just before the dining plan began the slow ruin of the parade), they describe amazing meals at just about all of the sit down experience at Disney. Remembering the food pron alone (before the advent of social media even) makes my mouth water right now, dining was really the focus of many trips for a lot of visitors. The quality, the variety, the portions - it was rare to leave a Disney sit-down without feeling you got your money's worth, even if it was pricey.

There are other factors, too - especially with the price perception. This largely depends on where you are coming from - if you live in a big city or some place where food is generally expensive, the prices at WDW have never seemed that unreasonable. If you come from other parts of the country or world where it isn't, you are going to think they are a lot higher. But even as someone who comes from the north east, where food has always been expensive, I can't justify the Disney price hikes PLUS the lack of quality and value that it used to feel was there. (Though food isn't alone, the same can be said for most of the WDW experience these days.)

One other thing I don't think gets mentioned enough either - expectations have changed a lot over the past decade or so when it comes to food in America. It used to be "oh, you get the real authentic cuisine at Epcot" and that was like, a thing - but in 2023, just about every small town in America (and certainly every place larger) has tons of authentic international and domestic cuisine choices. We have moved way past pizza and Americanized Chinese food being the only choices available to anyone outside of the major cities.

When the quality at home is going up, and the quality at WDW has gone down, it's not a huge mystery why Disney dining is now seen by many as an obligation, versus a pursuit worth half your vacation time to experience as it once was.

This.

In general, Disney dining died for me the minute they chose to eliminate the parmesan mashed potatoes at Chef Mickey's. It's been dead to me from that point on. I think it's been a decade now...

 

[Ayla]

Oops, Ayla. I wrote the wrong thing apparently. A senior moment?
I have a real ID too, but for traveling I have a Passport Card. It can only be used for travel to Canada and Mexico. If we travel to other countries, then we would have to get another passport for that. We would only travel to Canada so that works for us. Sorry for the confusion..

I am honestly glad to hear that, because I hated thinking of you showing up at the border with your REAL ID, thinking it would be enough. Glad to hear that isn't the case!

 

[Miss Bella]

Sure, everyone is feeling that pinch - but the reduction at WDW started wayyyyyy before the pandemic.

I thought people were just being ornery at the time, but the dining plan really was the beginning of the end. Those first couple of years, though - back when quality was high and the dining plan was first introduced and it really was a deal (even for those that didn't get it for free) - those were some times I miss. The only complaint was too much food or too many choices.

But yes - I agree on food prices and quality just about everywhere in the post-pandemic age - we don't have time or frankly energy to eat out very often, but at least once or twice a week I take a look at menus at the zillions of restaurants with rave reviews out there we have locally, and I think about ordering - but when a couple of burgers and an app or two, or a couple of plates of authentic BBQ is going to run us $80-100 bucks with tax and tip, and I think about the actual amount of food we would be getting - even if we went in and sat down, I still just can't justify that amount of money on a single meal on your average Thursday night.

I remember how excited people used to get for the free dining. It really enabled the middle class family to be able to afford a trip. We bought the deluxe dining plan back in the day when the kids were under 10. I thought it was a bargain and I think you’re right the quality was better or the price and quality were in better alignment. I can’t see us ever eating at signature restaurant again paying 400 plus for dinner. At this point I don’t see the four of us ever taking a trip again.

 

[BuddyThomas]

You probably still have me on ignore from the COVID thread disagreements a couple of years ago but I just wanted to highlight your outstanding post. People don't understand how much the minimum wage increases increase costs for businesses. I maintain the website of a local Italian Restaurant/Pizzaria and the owner does everything he can to keep his prices as low as possible. He feels guilty when he has to raise prices. He commented to me about this exact issue, rhetorically asking, "what am I supposed to do when minimum wage goes up to $15?" To attract and retain good employees, he pays over minimum wage but continuing to pay the same percentage above minimum wage is going to drastically increase his cost.

Thank you for providing a business owner's perspective on the wage increases. I am lucky in my business that all of the employees are also owners. The scrolling on phones at work thing is a huge annoyance when I patronize a business. I even saw a WDW CM check a phone last week (they were positioned in the RotR queue so although it could have been related to the operation, I doubt it).

Even at $15 an hour, if you work 40 hours a week, that is only $600, pre-tax per week. Could you live on that? I couldn’t. I don’t know anyone who could.

 

[BuddyThomas]

So now this is a restaurant thread. Wonderful.

 

[Chi84]

I think the high cost of WDW is definitely costing them attendance. But if I had to pick one thing that people dislike even more than the cost, it’s the complexity.

Our last few visits with Genie+/ILL were a pain to navigate - and we had to pay extra for it. One of the main draws of Disney was its all-inclusive feel and that’s gone now.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I think the high cost of WDW is definitely costing them attendance. But if I had to pick one thing that people dislike even more than the cost, it’s the complexity.

Our last few visits with Genie+/ILL were a pain to navigate - and we had to pay extra for it. One of the main draws of Disney was its all-inclusive feel and that’s gone now.

Spot on.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I think the high cost of WDW is definitely costing them attendance. But if I had to pick one thing that people dislike even more than the cost, it’s the complexity.

Our last few visits with Genie+/ILL were a pain to navigate - and we had to pay extra for it. One of the main draws of Disney was its all-inclusive feel and that’s gone now.

When we went to Disneyland in September, we were extremely concerned that we were not going to be able to navigate or handle Genie+. It turned out to be a non issue. It was very user friendly, at least for Disneyland and we did not have one single problem…..unless you consider having to pay $25 each for front of line to Rise of the Resistance. Yeah, that was a problem but it was the only way for us to get on without a four hour wait. Other than that, everything was fine.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think the high cost of WDW is definitely costing them attendance. But if I had to pick one thing that people dislike even more than the cost, it’s the complexity.

Our last few visits with Genie+/ILL were a pain to navigate - and we had to pay extra for it. One of the main draws of Disney was its all-inclusive feel and that’s gone now.

And the combination of the two .... People are willing to join through hoops/work for it if the cost is low/to save money ...

But charge a lot and they want it easy to execute

 

[Chi84]

When we went to Disneyland in September, we were extremely concerned that we were not going to be able to navigate or handle Genie+. It turned out to be a non issue. It was very user friendly, at least for Disneyland and we did not have one single problem…..unless you consider having to pay $25 each for front of line to Rise of the Resistance. Yeah, that was a problem but it was the only way for us to get on without a four hour wait. Other than that, everything was fine.

Disneyland is very different from WDW in terms of ride capacity and how people visit, including number of days. I think it’s why MaxPass worked there but wouldn’t have had a chance at WDW.