Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[TheMaxRebo]

Great point, @GhostHost1000. Attraction downtime is an important part of standby wait times.

Disney's MDE app reports downtime for WDW's attractions. Here's the average downtime per attraction for 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 YTD, per day, in minutes of downtime.

The numbers do not count planned refurbs as downtime. I can see an argument for including that, since the ride is not available to paying guests and Disney doesn't change the price of tickets.

The numbers only count outages during hours when guests are in the park. So if MDE is reporting GOTG is offline, but no guests are in EPCOT, that doesn't count in the charts below.

First, the Animal Kingdom should get credit for generally improving its ride availability:

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Likewise, EPCOT has improved downtime at GOTG, SSE, and TT.

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You could argue (and I would agree) that a 35% drop in downtime at Test Track isn't the headline because it's still offline 93 minutes per day on average. But it's early Monday morning, so let's try to look at the bright side of things.

Things are not great at Hollywood Studios, where four of the park's 10 rides have more than an hour of downtime per day. Also note that ROTR's downtime is so bad that the Unofficial Guide's advice is to buy the ILL for it, so you don't waste time in line for a ride that breaks down. That revenue is a perverse incentive for Disney not to fix the problem.

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And the Magic Kingdom isn't great either, with another four major rides averaging over an hour of downtime per day:

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Along with increasing ILL sales, it's my believe that ride downtime causes more sales of Genie+. This happens through a combination of G+ reservations for offline rides being converted to "good anywhere" G+s, which leads to longer lines at other attractions, which leads to more people purchasing G+ to avoid the long lines.

But I could be wrong. I spoke to some folks at UOR who have done this calculation for their own parks, and they did not reach the same conclusion for downtime and Express Pass sales.

Always interesting when you see data that supports first hand experience. Really shows why Hollywood Studios can be such a challenge to visit - just not enough "other stuff" to do (and mermaid show not back and no citizens of Hollywood not helping) when a big ride goes down and basically a couple big rides are going to be down for at least an hour every day

And like you said, all that revenue from Rise ILL makes it hard (from an business/accounting standpoint) to take it down for the time it would take to fix it


MK has issues too but at least there are plenty of rides there that the impact from one or two down isn't as harmful

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Always interesting when you see data that supports first hand experience. Really shows why Hollywood Studios can be such a challenge to visit - just not enough "other stuff" to do (and mermaid show not back and no citizens of Hollywood not helping) when a big ride goes down and basically a couple big rides are going to be down for at least an hour every day

And like you said, all that revenue from Rise ILL makes it hard (from an business/accounting standpoint) to take it down for the time it would take to fix it


MK has issues too but at least there are plenty of rides there that the impact from one or two down isn't as harmful

Uh huh…don’t try too hard to “massage” the numbers

 

[LSLS]

Always interesting when you see data that supports first hand experience. Really shows why Hollywood Studios can be such a challenge to visit - just not enough "other stuff" to do (and mermaid show not back and no citizens of Hollywood not helping) when a big ride goes down and basically a couple big rides are going to be down for at least an hour every day

And like you said, all that revenue from Rise ILL makes it hard (from an business/accounting standpoint) to take it down for the time it would take to fix it


MK has issues too but at least there are plenty of rides there that the impact from one or two down isn't as harmful

And the other issue is the amount of downtime for a lot of those rides at DHS have been trending up as other things to do have dropped off. So not only is there less to do when a ride goes down, but they are all going down for much longer periods than they did even a few years ago.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Which rides are you counting? Guardians isn't bad (about 20mins) and Tron wasn't on the list.

Rise is obviously a disaster but Smugglers Run is almost never down.

Some ways Remy is the worst offender as it is a duplicate ride and still has over an hour down a day

Fair, but Guardians is one of the newest and shouldn't have much downtime. Tron hasn't even been open long enough (and again, it's a coaster, plus a clone, and also shouldn't have much downtime). Rise, Remy, and MMRR (I put Slinky in there, forgetting that it's "old" at this point) are inexcusable.

The lack of extended downtime on headliners for maintenance is really beginning to show. But we just need to let Bob's plan play out, remember. Everything is good, just trust in Bob's plans.

 

[HauntedPirate]

And the other issue is the amount of downtime for a lot of those rides at DHS have been trending up as other things to do have dropped off. So not only is there less to do when a ride goes down, but they are all going down for much longer periods than they did even a few years ago.

Wait, wait... are you trying to say that rip-and-replace maybe wasn't the best course of action at a park already starving for ride capacity? You're going to be labeled a non-pixie-dust-ingesting heretic and thrown in with some of us if you keep thinking like that.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Fair, but Guardians is one of the newest and shouldn't have much downtime. Tron hasn't even been open long enough (and again, it's a coaster, plus a clone, and also shouldn't have much downtime). Rise, Remy, and MMRR (I put Slinky in there, forgetting that it's "old" at this point) are inexcusable.

The lack of extended downtime on headliners for maintenance is really beginning to show. But we just need to let Bob's plan play out, remember. Everything is good, just trust in Bob's plans.

Does also show that they should probably not build just highly technologically advanced E-ticket attractions - add in some more solid C/D attractions that get decent crowds and don't break down can help

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But we just need to let Bob's plan play out, remember. Everything is good, just trust in Bob's plans.

Did Tim Cook offer the $19.99 a share he’s holding out for?

 

[HauntedPirate]

Does also show that they should probably not build just highly technologically advanced E-ticket attractions - add in some more solid C/D attractions that get decent crowds and don't break down can help

Thus the reason I and many others have hammered the "headliner-only" approach that Bob and his underlings have taken for the past 15 years (and that doesn't even count the lame Fantasyland expansion, which was neutered before it even opened). You have to build a more-complete experience, not just headliners. But this is what happens when people who don't understand theme parks and only understand spreadsheets and quarterly financials run things.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Did Tim Cook offer the $19.99 a share he’s holding out for?

He's reportedly having coffee with Bob soon to discuss things.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Thus the reason I and many others have hammered the "headliner-only" approach that Bob and his underlings have taken for the past 15 years. You have to build a more-complete experience, not just headliners. But this is what happens when people who don't understand theme parks and only understand spreadsheets and quarterly financials run things.

…yeah…couple that with not being able to figure out what a reasonable budget looks like and having your engineering wing run roughshod over you like a scene from planet of the apes

 

[networkpro]

…yeah…couple that with not being able to figure out what a reasonable budget looks like and having your engineering wing run roughshod over you like a scene from planet of the apes

Well you do realize who owns that ip now ...

 

[LSLS]

Fair, but Guardians is one of the newest and shouldn't have much downtime. Tron hasn't even been open long enough (and again, it's a coaster, plus a clone, and also shouldn't have much downtime). Rise, Remy, and MMRR (I put Slinky in there, forgetting that it's "old" at this point) are inexcusable.

The lack of extended downtime on headliners for maintenance is really beginning to show. But we just need to let Bob's plan play out, remember. Everything is good, just trust in Bob's plans.

The ONLY defense I can come up with is for the outdoor rides, a lot of that downtime could be weather dependent. If you have a very rainy year, things like Test Track could be down longer than normal. And to counter that, it looks like this month so far has had about 5 less inches of rain.

 

[Lilofan]

He's reportedly having coffee with Bob soon to discuss things.

The sweetest deal for deal maker Bob which would make him a very richer man is to sell . Apple worth $3 trillion if it wants to will no have issues with financing.

 

[LSLS]

The sweetest deal for deal maker Bob which would make him a very richer man is to sell . Apple worth $3T if it wants to will no have issues with financing.

BUT THINK OF THE DEBT!!!!!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The ONLY defense I can come up with is for the outdoor rides, a lot of that downtime could be weather dependent. If you have a very rainy year, things like Test Track could be down longer than normal. And to counter that, it looks like this month so far has had about 5 less inches of rain.

Definitely impacts some things - I know our trip we were next to board Slinky Dog when it had to close for rain ... So perhaps can give rides like that, Big Thunder, etc a bit of a pass .... But obviously doesn't impact Rise, MMRR, Remy, Frozen, etc which I think are some of the worst offenders at this point

 

[UNCgolf]

But I could be wrong. I spoke to some folks at UOR who have done this calculation for their own parks, and they did not reach the same conclusion for downtime and Express Pass sales.

That's probably a tough comparison since Express Pass costs so much more. People are generally going to be more willing to shell out $15-20 a person than $80+ a person, even though Express Pass offers a vastly superior product.

 

[Jrb1979]

That's probably a tough comparison since Express Pass costs so much more. People are going to be generally more willing to shell out $15-20 a person than $80+ a person, even though Express Pass offers far more.

It's also cause they are run different. Express pass is similar to most parks in that it's priced so it limits the amount of people buying it. Where as Genie+ is priced to get the maximum profit and made so everyone has if.

 

[Splash4eva]

Did Tim Cook offer the $19.99 a share he’s holding out for?

$50 take it or leave it by years end…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

$50 take it or leave it by years end…

Why would the “red delicious” take that?

There’s no real bottom to the nosedive based on economics…

All on Bob.

Bob 1/3

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's probably a tough comparison since Express Pass costs so much more. People are going to be generally more willing to shell out $15-20 a person than $80+ a person, even though Express Pass offers far more.

Half of express passes are a “perk”…that changes the dynamic a ton.

Being able to go on hagrids as much as you want during the middle of the day in 15 minutes is not at all comparable as only a 95 Minute wait on flight passage if you enter the queue at 8:59 on a DAK “late night”

I’m not exaggerating…and that brings me no joy