Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[MickeyLuv'r]

The problem is the quality and level of service have declined.

With qualifiers, I would say it has had both ups and downs over the years. When WDW wants to win people over, it goes up.
I also feel that WDW hires some very qualified, hard working chefs. Chef TJ, for example has a great number of fans. More than once, he has prepared amazing meals for members of my family.

I first met him at Boma, when Boma was only a few years old. Since then, he has worked all over WDW (Poly, GF, Ft WL and BC for certain). He most has been the special needs chef. So if you dined at GF while he was working there, and requested vegetarian, vegan, or allergen-free food, then you may well have met him.

 

[JD80]

Ah, so you are trying to say you have "clearly never eaten in a big city."

No. I'm just saying no matter where you go there are always options if you look for them if cost is part of your calculation. That can be in NYC, WDW, DC, Chicago, LA, or the suburbs of Minneapolis.

 

[Drdcm]

No. I'm just saying no matter where you go there are always options if you look for them if cost is part of your calculation. That can be in NYC, WDW, DC, Chicago, LA, or the suburbs of Minneapolis.

NYC has 2 buck slices of pizza still. They generally suck, but they exist. I get your point

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

A cheap eat in Orlando and Kissimmee in quantity not necessarily quality but the numerous all u can eat buffets, breakfast lunch and dinner ( I - Drive , Hwy 192, etc )

An interesting new option is coming to the WDW area.

The same guy behind Via Napoli and Space in Epcot is opening a new place offsite in Flamingo Crossing. It looks interesting for several reasons. The menu is also Italian. It is also supposed to offer a late-night menu. I would not describe it as cheap eats, but for some it would cost less than paying admission into Epcot. The prices look to be slightly lower than Via Napoli- say $18-$22 for a pizza instead of $25-26. Or $24/with meatballs instead of $28/no meat for spaghetti. But not a lot lower.

It will be interesting to see how well it does.

 

[Lilofan]

NYC has 2 buck slices of pizza still. They generally suck, but they exist. I get your point

2 Bros Pizza in NYC, Brooklyn, Bronx went from $1 slice to $1.50 per slice. Pizza Rizzo for $11 at DHS is garbage compared to 2 Bros.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

No. I'm just saying no matter where you go there are always options if you look for them if cost is part of your calculation. That can be in NYC, WDW, DC, Chicago, LA, or the suburbs of Minneapolis.

I was playing a bit.

That is the point I was making. A pp claimed big city = no cheap eats.

I have often found big cities offer a wide array of varied international cuisines that are inexpensive, fresh, delicious, and unique. Young chefs starting out with their place often take a similar approach, sometimes with a food truck. The best ceviche I've ever had, came from a food truck.

IMO, WDW food is a bit of a mix, but is generally $$ for what you get. Mickey bars are now $6.25, that's getting a bit steep. I like the new Freeze Ray lemon mint pops better for $6, plus I get my AP discount. At WDW, the AP discount is very spotty. Offer a 10% discount or don't. Disney likes to play the annoying game of guess-where-you-get-your-measly-discount that was advertised as a perk.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

If Dominos, Papa Johns, Pizza Hut is ordered in the Northeast it is truly for some who don't care for quality.

Thought we were talking about cheap delivery to the TTC though

 

[JD80]

I was playing a bit.

That is the point I was making. A pp claimed big city = no cheap eats.

I have often found big cities offer a wide array of varied international cuisines that are inexpensive, fresh, delicious, and unique. Young chefs starting out with their place often take a similar approach, sometimes with a food truck. The best ceviche I've ever had, came from a food truck.

IMO, WDW food is a bit of a mix, but is generally $$ for what you get. Mickey bars are now $6.25, that's getting a bit steep. I like the new Freeze Ray lemon mint pops better for $6, plus I get my AP discount. At WDW, the AP discount is very spotty. Offer a 10% discount or don't. Disney likes to play the annoying game of guess-where-you-get-your-measly-discount that was advertised as a perk.

I mean, generally larger population centers will have more expensive restaurants and options for food as a general rule. $6.25 for a Mickey Bar isn't bad when a box of small ones cost $10-12 at the local grocery store.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I mean, generally larger population centers will have more expensive restaurants and options for food as a general rule. $6.25 for a Mickey Bar isn't bad when a box of small ones cost $10-12 at the local grocery store.

Those are not even close to the same bars, though. Like, not even in the same ballpark as what you get in the parks.

 

[JD80]

Those are not even close to the same bars, though. Like, not even in the same ballpark as what you get in the parks.

Just making a basic point.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I mean, generally larger population centers will have more expensive restaurants and options for food as a general rule. $6.25 for a Mickey Bar isn't bad when a box of small ones cost $10-12 at the local grocery store.

These days, I agree that it is not the most egregious WDW surcharge. Though they seem to have fallen down Alice's Rabbit hole; they've shrunk.

The grocery store bars are not at all the same. Are they $10? Near me, not on sale, they are $9/box. I only tried them once, and decided they were not very good. The grocery store Dole Whip cups are downright gross.

If you can find them, grocery store taiyaki fish are delicious! I first had them in the Epcot Japan booth. Meito is the brand I buy, but there are probably others. Though frozen, the waffle is still somehow relatively crisp. They run about $10 for a box of ten, are a decent size, and come in an assortment of flavors.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Getting back on topic.

I don’t think the parks are as slow as people are making them out to be. I always use the Disney World app wait time for the Barnstormer as a pretty de facto sign if the parks are busy. If Barnstormer has a wait time over 30 minutes the place is busy.



Jimmy Thick- I only use the Barnstormer because it’s the first attraction that pops up, nothing scientific.

 

[JusticeDisney]

To counter the statement I quoted, "Anyway, anyone who thinks that WDW dining prices are wildly high has clearly never eaten in a big city."


I have eaten in many big cities. It is easy to find inexpensive places to eat in big cities. It just takes a few minutes.

I included several Orlando area options so as to put WDW options in perspective relative to other area options.

Oh, I see. If you look at the cities that I mentioned, and ones like them, you absolutely cannot eat for cheaper than WDW.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Ah, so you are trying to say you have "clearly never eaten in a big city."

The fact that it is possible to find food in a big city that is cheaper than food in WDW is irrelevant. Exceptions can always be found. It is a fact, however, that on the whole food in WDW is no more expensive that it is on the whole in the cities I mentioned.

 

[BuddyThomas]

NYC has 2 buck slices of pizza still. They generally suck, but they exist. I get your point

Yes, there is one of those right next to my office and there is always a long line of annoying foreign tourists waiting to buy it. And that pizza is absolutely disgusting. They think they are getting real NY pizza. Sad.

 

[DisneyCane]

I don't know what normal would be for a Wednesday in late October but I practically walked on FoP 3 times in a row after two prior 20 and 15 minute waits starting at 4 this afternoon. The last 3 times I didn't stop in the queue until after the LL merge point. The ILL people got seriously ripped off. They maybe saved 2 minutes from the shorter queue length (physical not people in line).

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I don't know what normal would be for a Wednesday in late October but I practically walked on FoP 3 times in a row after two prior 20 and 15 minute waits starting at 4 this afternoon. The last 3 times I didn't stop in the queue until after the LL merge point. The ILL people got seriously ripped off. They maybe saved 2 minutes from the shorter queue length (physical not people in line).

Not sure if *that* short is normal but for a while now AK really clears out after 2 and the lines for everything really go down, including FoP and the Safari, both if which are way more earlier in the day

Walk on feels a bit light but like 15-20 mins that time of day is pretty standard

 

[LSLS]

Getting back on topic.

I don’t think the parks are as slow as people are making them out to be. I always use the Disney World app wait time for the Barnstormer as a pretty de facto sign if the parks are busy. If Barnstormer has a wait time over 30 minutes the place is busy.



Jimmy Thick- I only use the Barnstormer because it’s the first attraction that pops up, nothing scientific.

See, and that's the question I keep coming back to. Are the wait times indicative of how busy the place is, or are they up for other reasons? 30 minutes seems very long for Barnstormer, but legit the only hotel sold out right now is All Stars Movie, and there are lots of dining reservations. Has the travel pattern of guests significantly changed, or is it not as busy as the wait times are indicating? I know they mentioned last quarter having less guests, it will be interesting to see what the next earnings report shows.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

See, and that's the question I keep coming back to. Are the wait times indicative of how busy the place is, or are they up for other reasons? 30 minutes seems very long for Barnstormer, but legit the only hotel sold out right now is All Stars Movie, and there are lots of dining reservations. Has the travel pattern of guests significantly changed, or is it not as busy as the wait times are indicating? I know they mentioned last quarter having less guests, it will be interesting to see what the next earnings report shows.

Personally I think it is a few things:
- posted wait times can be off and potentially more inflated now than in the past
- I think total guests are down but not *that* much on most days (but definitely down to the peak of 2018/2019)
- there is less "other stuff" to do - less streetmosphere, not all shows are back, etc -pushing more people to attractions
- hotels and dining are definitely more impacted than the parks, thus all the resort discounts and the coming return of the dining plan (plus less people at TS restaurants is another thing pushing people to wait in line)

So total attendance is down from peak of 2018/19 but not "empty" and increased revenue sources (higher prices and G+, etc) more than making up for that

The hotels and dining bookings are a bigger issue for Disney and this the discounts, dining plan coming back, some return of some perks (though I think they need more - let's see what the coming changes to G+ being), etc

 

[LSLS]

Personally I think it is a few things:
- posted wait times can be off and potentially more inflated now than in the past
- I think total guests are down but not *that* much on most days (but definitely down to the peak of 2018/2019)
- there is less "other stuff" to do - less streetmosphere, not all shows are back, etc -pushing more people to attractions
- hotels and dining are definitely more impacted than the parks, thus all the resort discounts and the coming return of the dining plan (plus less people at TS restaurants is another thing pushing people to wait in line)

So total attendance is down from peak of 2018/19 but not "empty" and increased revenue sources (higher prices and G+, etc) more than making up for that

The hotels and dining bookings are a bigger issue for Disney and this the discounts, dining plan coming back, some return of some perks (though I think they need more - let's see what the coming changes to G+ being), etc

I'd add in if Disney cuts staff at the same rates guests decline, there's a possibility that wait times are up because trains are leaving every 1.5 minutes as opposed to every minute. Apparently UBS evidence lab says attendance was down 25% for Q3, which is HUGE, but I'm not sure how accurate that is. Q4 could be a big loss based on the 4th of July and potentially Labor Day being large drops. Honestly I don't know. I wish Disney had to report it, but we may have to wait for the AECOM report.