Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Nubs70]

Serious question here…

How do you stop the bleeding? What needs to get done to right these wrongs? In reality does this company have the cash/financial capacity to invest the billions thats needed to fix the assumed problems with capacity and entertainment/parades

#1 internally admit failure
#2 Accept the fact that they must fundamentally accept a lower net contribution margin.
#3 Simultaneously lower prices and increase quality.
a. Slowly bring down prices but not a drastic slash.
b. Slowly increase quality
c. Eventually the quality and price will meet at an overall lower net contribution margin at a price that will justify the quality.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They have said they will work to update the system and make it simpler and bring back an element of pre-booking - but they haven't given any details and haven't said it will be a new system - more likely keep the G+ name just modify it so it is somewhere in between current G+ and old FP+

It’s a numbers problem. They don’t have the ride capacity for proper crowd flow and it’s been that way for along time since the aggregate growth in travel to Orlando eclipsed the property.

It’s a problem Iger, Inc has chosen not only to address…but incorporate into a pricing “strategy”

And that’s why they’re stuck. Nothing even close to being to being built to disperse crowds and use such a system effectively.

And they’re not much more than net zero on capacity since he took over…and crowds are somewhere between 25-35% higher due to the Natural upward arc of travel in that time.

I just gave you how the sausage is made.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree with all this completely! It's too bad that now they seem to be only thinking about the short term, and only regarding the shareholders. They seem completely oblivious to what really needs to be done to right the wrongs. Until they do see it, then nothing will change, IMO>

The problem is you can’t run Disney parks on the short term forever or you’ll collapse it.

But transient, non-family affiliated leadership was eventually gonna do that

 

[UNCgolf]

I think thats what Iger wants but Apple probably doesn't

Yeah, I don't get the Apple speculation. I don't see why Apple would be interested in buying Disney -- they might be interested in certain parts, but I don't think they'd have any desire to purchase everything. Why would Apple want to run theme parks?

 

[Splash4eva]

Yeah, I don't get the Apple speculation. I don't see why Apple would be interested in buying Disney -- they might be interested in certain parts, but I don't think they'd have any desire to purchase everything. Why would Apple want to run theme parks?

lets see when run properly they are an absolute cash cow....

 

[UNCgolf]

lets see when run properly they are an absolute cash cow....

But running them properly also costs a ton of money, and it requires expanding into numerous areas with which Apple has absolutely no experience.

Apple could also make a bunch of money by opening/buying a pharmaceutical division, but I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[Splash4eva]

But running them properly also costs a ton of money, and it requires expanding into numerous areas with which Apple has absolutely no experience.

Apple could also make a bunch of money by opening/buying a pharmaceutical division, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Putting the right people in charge its a no brainer for them… just my thoughts

 

[TheIceBaron]

They probably will tank on earnings, I can’t imagine their updated guidance will be stellar. If they are offering all these steep discounts you have to wonder what their attendance outlook is for next year. Can’t imagine their future box office outlook is great either.

If the parks and movies/TV/Streaming are not doing well, I wonder if they think it’s even a possibility that the Disney brand has been damaged. Barbie and Oppenheimer doing well at box office while Disney movies doing the worse they have in decades.

 

[UNCgolf]

Putting the right people in charge its a no brainer for them… just my thoughts

I think there would be a bigger risk involved for Apple to buy them than people assume -- not just in general with expanding to an entirely new product market, but also in other factors like the location due to climate change.

Mainly, though, Apple already makes huge amounts of money. They don't really have much reason to take on any risk for something like theme parks.

 

[Lilofan]

Putting the right people in charge its a no brainer for them… just my thoughts

Comcast/Universal NBC does this with Universal parks. There is a separate parks division of Parks executives to lead and manage these areas.

 

[AEfx]

It’s a numbers problem. They don’t have the ride capacity for proper crowd flow and it’s been that way for along time since the aggregate growth in travel to Orlando eclipsed the property.

It’s a problem Iger, Inc has chosen not only to address…but incorporate into a pricing “strategy”

And that’s why they’re stuck. Nothing even close to being to being built to disperse crowds and use such a system effectively.

More specifically, it is the fact that they are not built to use THIS system effectively. There is plenty of capacity at WDW, it's just that much of it was (very intentionally) built into queues and load areas to load those guests most efficiently in continuous fashion, which now sit empty. The original FP messed with it a bit, but no where near to the levels it is today.

Frankly, they should just start demolishing parts of the queues that are never used, and just set up places for people to stand on their cell phones and the crowds would be more manageable throughout the park.

Note, this in no way excuses the lack of new meaningful attractions or the fact that they "don't build 'em like they used to" in terms of moving large numbers of guests an hour, but is why it feels even more crowded than it is. The lanes and avenues around the parks were not meant for people to be standing around in, spending half the day staring a phones, waiting for a FP+ or for their mobile food orders. The intention was to drive them into stores so they spend less time in line and more time buying stuff, but I don't think it has exactly worked out that way (it never was about guest convenience to begin with).

Which, actually, to circle back to the origin of this thread - is why some of the pictures and empty places are so astounding - because if it looks that empty, then it is doubly alarming.

 

[Br0ckford]

Just bring back Magical Express. How can I go to the parks, when I get to the airport and I'm just standing there with no way to get to the resort?

 

[Disone]

I just went to the Magic Kingdom yesterday. I got there at 3:00. While the park did not feel packed, it definitely wasn't empty. Everything was pushing 30 to 45 minutes except for space Mountain which was closed. But made for any people over trip because all the lights were on. Also the Omni bus was running on Main Street USA. They even had the signs on the curb for where it stops.

As this was about the only thing that wasn't 30 to 45 minutes, that and the people who work, these were the attractions we went on.

And I just drove by the toll plaza for Epcot. Extremely healthy amount of cars coming in for the food and wine festival. Six lanes open and they're all backed up with about six cars each. And the the backup on the parking lot looks like something I do not want to be in at all. It looks like the i-4 traffic jam I'm currently stuck in like parking lot. Like I'm posting this while parked on i-4. Color me annoyed.

 

[Splash4eva]

Comcast/Universal NBC does this with Universal parks. There is a separate parks division of Parks executives to lead and manage these areas.

Exactly. Same way Apple or anyone for that matter w the cash needed to right this ship can do…. If Elon gets it. At least we will finally get some electric cars in tomorrowland lol

 

[Angel Ariel]

Everything was pushing 30 to 45 minutes except for space Mountain which was closed.

We know, though, that they use genie+ among other things to drive staffing and ride capacity. Was everything pushing 30-45 minutes while running at full ride potential? Or were there less staff or ride vehicles operating, thus raising the wait time with less people in the park?

I'm not sure line wait times are the most reliable way to measure actual #s of people in the park in low crowd times.

 

[Thelazer]

I was there Yesterday, it was busy.. most rides in MK, 30 to 40 for standby lines.
Could not get near tron.

Also watched the express monorail break down after the fireworks and thank god we were on the resort line.
Cause those folks were stuck in the lines for a good hour after park close.

 

[JoeCamel]

Exactly. Same way Apple or anyone for that matter w the cash needed to right this ship can do…. If Elon gets it. At least we will finally get some electric cars in tomorrowland lol

He would be so busy gatekeeping nothing would get done.....

 

[Prince-1]

Exactly. Same way Apple or anyone for that matter w the cash needed to right this ship can do…. If Elon gets it. At least we will finally get some electric cars in tomorrowland lol

Elon is never getting it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

lets see when run properly they are an absolute cash cow....

Depending on the time of day they’re already the most valuable company on the planet…

But running them properly also costs a ton of money, and it requires expanding into numerous areas with which Apple has absolutely no experience.

Apple could also make a bunch of money by opening/buying a pharmaceutical division, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Running hotels, restaurant and amusements is not easy…

The Disneys never really loved doing it beyond it being an advertisement/test ground for other products…

…even a cash cow like WDW has far too much 24/7 strings attached if you already have more money that you can spend.

It’s also corporate culture. Jobs may have gotten a charge out of that exposure…modern guys just want the most money the easiest way you can get it. Phones that sell for $1400 and cost $39.99 to make in a sweat shop and $4.00 to ship hits that sweet spot better.

 

[Turtlekrawl]

It’s a numbers problem. They don’t have the ride capacity for proper crowd flow and it’s been that way for along time since the aggregate growth in travel to Orlando eclipsed the property.

It’s a problem Iger, Inc has chosen not only to address…but incorporate into a pricing “strategy”

And that’s why they’re stuck. Nothing even close to being to being built to disperse crowds and use such a system effectively.

And they’re not much more than net zero on capacity since he took over…and crowds are somewhere between 25-35% higher due to the Natural upward arc of travel in that time.

I just gave you how the sausage is made.

Amen to this.

MK/EPCOT attraction capacity is essentially neutral over the last 25 years. Almost everything “new” has replaced something else. One could argue that the only true additions are a carpet spinner, an extra dumbo spinner, and a mediocre ratatouille ride. DHS/AK have had some marginal gains, but nowhere near what is needed to account for park attendance increases. Couple this with price increases, shorter park hours, and a decrease in non-park activities (watersports, golf courses, Pleasure Island, etc).

No bueno. Nostalgia is running low.