Invasion of Privacy

FutureCEO

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Uncle Sam wants your kid
Tuesday, December 3, 2002 Posted: 10:30 AM EST (1530 GMT)

The new law says that schools must give the military the same access to their campuses that businesses and college recruiters enjoy.

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- A little-noticed provision in a new federal education law is requiring high schools to hand over to military recruiters some key information about its juniors and seniors: name, address and phone number.

The Pentagon says the information will help it recruit young people to defend their country. But the new law disturbs parents and administrators in some liberal communities that aren't exactly gung-ho about the armed forces.

Some say the law violates students' privacy and creates a moral dilemma over the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays.

"I find it appalling that the school is sending out letters to do the job of the military," said Amy Lang, the parent of a student at Cambridge Rindge and Latin School, where Coke was once banned in a protest against the soda giant's investments in apartheid South Africa. "It's clearly an invasion of my daughter's privacy."

The No Child Left Behind law, signed last January, pumps billions into education but also gives military recruiters access to the names, addresses and phone numbers of students in 22,000 schools. The law also says that schools must give the military the same access to their campuses that businesses and college recruiters enjoy.

School systems that fail to comply could lose federal money. The measure also applies to private schools receiving federal funding. But Quaker schools and others that have a religious objection to military service can get out of the requirement.

Students and parents who oppose the law can keep their information from being turned over to the military, but they must sign and return an "opt-out" form.

Opting out
The Boston school system, which has 7,500 juniors and seniors, included the opt-out notice in a take-home student handbook, but fewer than a dozen parents opted out.

So far, 95 percent of the nation's schools are in compliance, said Pentagon spokeswoman Maj. Sandra Troeber. She would not identify the other schools. But Education Department spokesman Dan Langan said that the current focus is on cooperation and that no schools have been sanctioned.

Federal law already requires men to register with the Selective Service within 30 days of turning 18. The new law, however, enables the Pentagon to reach potential recruits when they are 15 or 16.

In New York City, Daniel Alterman was taken aback when his 15-year-old son, a junior at Stuyvesant High, received a recruitment letter.

"Parents are in the dark," Alterman said. "It freaked me out. I didn't sign up to support the military effort."

Alterman said after he opted out, his son received another letter, this one promoting scholarships. "It was very seductive. They didn't say anything about risk to personal safety," Alterman said.

Among those objecting to the new requirements is the New York City chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. Executive director Donna Lieberman said that the opt-out provision is inadequate and that schools should be doing more to protect students' privacy.

In a letter last month, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Education Secretary Rod Paige reminded high school administrators of their duty, and cited "the excellent educational opportunities the military affords, as well as an environment that encourages the development of strong character and leadership skills."

'We had to comply with the law'
The Pentagon said better access to students could also hold down the rising costs of recruitment. Over the past decade, the cost per recruit has nearly doubled from $6,500 to $11,600.

Before the law, military recruiters could meet with students in Cambridge and Northampton on campus only if the student sought them out, and then only at a meeting attended by a guidance counselor. But Cambridge held a military career fair at the high school a month ago.

"It's a vast departure from the way we've done business," said Donna Harlan, an associate superintendent in the Northampton school system. "We are not in the business of giving lists of names of kids to anybody. That was tough. The issue was if we were to receive federal or state money, we had to comply with the law."

The law also spelled the end of a 6-year ban on military recruiting on campus in Portland, Oregon. After contending that the "don't ask, don't tell" policy discriminates against gays, the school system now gives recruiters a shot at its 16,000 students.

In Massachusetts, Framingham High senior April Middleton decided over lunch recently that maybe the military is in her future after talking with Army National Guard Sgt. Louis Perrin, a recruiter who visited the cafeteria.

Middleton, 18, said she plans to enlist after she graduates, and the prospect of war has not scared her off. "Sometimes you've got to make sacrifices," she said.

Sometimes, however, recruiters battle hostility.

"One teacher said we were trying to brainwash kids. All we were doing was handing out pencils," Perrin said. "We're not trying to invade anybody's privacy. We're just trying to protect their freedoms."
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Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum, Dum-invasion of privacy is coming especially for those who don't want to go in the military-you can serve your country in a lot of ways without going into the military.
 

GaryT977

New Member
Dude, I know this sucks, and it's depressing, but all this post is going to do is bring all the Bush backers down on your head. :brick:
 

FutureCEO

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
bring it on...it's on cnn and they have a poll and 65% of those who took the poll said it was an invasion of privacy
 

GaryT977

New Member
Originally posted by FutureCEO
bring it on...it's on cnn and they have a poll and 65% of those who took the poll said it was an invasion of privacy

OK. Just trying to help. To me, it's like arguing with my mother. Example:

Mom: You can't do that!
Me: Here's a very logical reason why I can.
Mom: Oh yeah! You remember that time when you were 14 and you lied to me! THAT'S why you can't!

Good luck! :hammer:
 

Testtrack321

Well-Known Member
Screw 65%, I don't care if you see me in Canada, but there is no way in hell that I'm going into the military. We have ROTC. If in anyway I am forced to do this, expect Supreme Court action.
 

DisJosh

Well-Known Member
I'm out of shape and have all sorts of physical problems...back,knee etc...

So I don't care. I wouldn't have to run from the draft if it were ever reinstated...the military wouldn't even waste it's time on me. :D
 

Maria

New Member
I just love when everybody starts getting patriotic and saying they will defend their country no matter what, but they all have tons of excuses to join the military! :lol:
That´s the spirit! :animwink:

I´m not attacking anyone, just relieved to hear that it works the same way around the world... everybody is brave enough to say they would die for their country, but when the draft comes, everybody prays "not me, please, not me..." :animwink: I guess it is called "survival" and it comes with our human nature. :)
 

Horizons38

Premium Member
Originally posted by Testtrack321
Screw 65%, I don't care if you see me in Canada, but there is no way in hell that I'm going into the military. We have ROTC. If in anyway I am forced to do this, expect Supreme Court action.

Since you are the " Director of Homeland security of the Evil Doll Resistance"
I (Alien member of the IASW Evil Doll Resistance) and a Canadian citizen ; promise to welcome you and will get you in anytime you want ! :cool: ( Just a little humor here !).
 

darthdarrel

New Member
Originally posted by Maria
I just love when everybody starts getting patriotic and saying they will defend their country no matter what, but they all have tons of excuses to join the military! :lol:
That´s the spirit! :animwink:

I´m not attacking anyone, just relieved to hear that it works the same way around the world... everybody is brave enough to say they would die for their country, but when the draft comes, everybody prays "not me, please, not me..." :animwink: I guess it is called "survival" and it comes with our human nature. :)
Well I didn`t join the armed forces,but when I turned 18 I did my duty and signed up for the draft and if they needed my help that bad that they had to go to the draft I would have poudly gone.
 

Tramp

New Member
Wasn't it the bleeding heart liberal Senator from Massachusetts, Ted (murderer) Kennedy and California Democratic Representative George Miller that SPONSORED this bill?

...Name, address, and phone number? Doesn't sound like an invasion of privacy to access public information.

Only those prone to loathe the military would be against recruitment in high school. Yet, the military could give thousands of kids a choice in life, provide them with opportunities, teach them skills they would never learn in the public sector and, yes, defend the country, all at the same time.

Unlike corporations or colleges recruiting on campus, the military gives ALL kids choice in their life, not just the top 5% in the school.
As former military, I don't understand this hatred for such a worthy calling...I could think of several teens in this forum that would benefit immensely from four years of discipline and regimentation....oh, and one that is no longer with us!:lol:
 

jaylenofan86

New Member
Screw 65%, I don't care if you see me in Canada, but there is no way in hell that I'm going into the military. We have ROTC. If in anyway I am forced to do this, expect Supreme Court action.
Ok, if you go to Canada, they will ship you back to fight if there is a war. You would have a better chance of avioding it if you were in Mexico! Also, I'll PM you for some more tips.;)
 

Disneynut

New Member
My concern with this is the Don't Ask - Don't tell policy. Kids in HS are at the point in their lives where they are questioning their identity. It is a shame that a 15 or 16 year old, who is dealing with the question of being gay, might be hounded by a military recruiter or worse other students.
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
How interesting that allowing military recruiters BACK on HS campuses, and allowing access to the information that colleges and other businesses have, translates into drafting students!!!

Trust me, if the draft is reinstituted, Uncle Sam knows where to find you without this law. ;)

I can't imagine that this is any more intrusive than the the college recruiters who called my daughter almost daily once the PSAT scores were released! A "Sorry, I'm not interested" made them disappear.

The military can be a very attractive college funding option for some students. My daughter has a dorm mate who is getting a 100% free ride...tuition($25,000), room, board, books, ($10,000) and a stipend!! I know many doctors who went through both undergrad and post-grad education thanks to the military. Yes, there is a payback...but for many, the opportunity is worth it.

And it can be an escape for some HS students with a bleak future.

Would I be thrilled to see my only son go off to war? Of course not! Neither was my mother watching hers go into an ongoing, high mortality, conflict. But she survived, as will I, if the time comes.
 

Erika

Moderator
When I was graduating from high school, I got a ton of calls from military recruiters. One even dropped the name of a fellow student who had supposedly just signed up :lol: (He was my friend, and he hadn't).

I guess I don't see how this law will change anything, since everyone else I knew got calls as well. They obviously had access to this information then (in 95) and I just assumed they had it now.

:confused:
 

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
Tramp is right...it isn't difficult to find out names and phone numbers nowadays...

This is only putting the names in a neat list for the government...(just a different way of filing :) )

When I was in school, we had recruiters all the time sitting in the cafeteria or the lounge area with a table set up with information. They didn't bother anyone and it was actually interesting to go up and get an idea of what you want to do with the rest of your life...High School is the time in your life where you need to make some life decisions...and it's nice to get information on different fields.
 

btb6mm

New Member
Tramp you said that very nice. :sohappy:


I for one think that this would be just the thing for alot of the young people that are getting out of High school now days. It would give them discipline that they need but don't get from their parents or schools or anyone for that matter. Maybe if more people had to do military service they would not have the Fairy land views on everything, and have a more realistic view of Life. I know the military gave me a lot more discipline.(JMO)

Testtrack321 there is always a way in Hell.:animwink:
 

Lhriangel

New Member
In my school it was similar as Freak's. We had recruiters on campus.. I think there was even an office on campus. I don't have anything against the military (although I know I could never survive it so it wasn't an option for me) although it does... bring around some emotional difficulties. I know for me if someone tells me they are joining the military my first instinct is to worry because of the fact that we may have a war on our hands soon (I won't go into the whole Bush/War thing...). Hmm... but it's just public record anyways so while I can see how it could be an invasion of privacy in one respect I don't see how it automatically can lead to a violation of the "Don't ask don't tell" policy or drafting...
 

garyhoov

Trophy Husband
Originally posted by Erika
When I was graduating from high school, I got a ton of calls from military recruiters. One even dropped the name of a fellow student who had supposedly just signed up :lol: (He was my friend, and he hadn't).

I guess I don't see how this law will change anything, since everyone else I knew got calls as well. They obviously had access to this information then (in 95) and I just assumed they had it now.

:confused:

Same thing with me in '83. I don't know how they got my name, but they did and they called frequently. I can't see how this will really make much difference.
 

NowInc

Well-Known Member
uh...so??

I remember back in high school I used to get calls from EVERY US organization trying to recruit me because of some weird test I took to figure out "what I will be" when i graduate...apppparently it showed I was good at decryption and computer engineering...about 5 days after i got the results back..the phones were constantly ringing..

This law doesnt seem like a big deal to me....as mom stated..if they want you..they'll find you..one way or another..

P.S...funny side story to all of this...you should have seen my mothers face when I got a call from the CIA ;)
 

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