Interesting Rumor Straight From MiceAge

[phichi17]

Simma down now....can't we all just get along....2 wrongs don't make a right, but 3 lefts make a square.

Hope you get the picture. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure it out.:lookaroun

I mean use the force already, the 5th gate ainta gonna happen no time soon.:hammer:

I hope this post made as much sense as the previous ones did.

But seriously folks, I respect both of your views and really don't like to see the discussions deteriorate into petty " I know more than you do" jibberish. It serves no purpose other than a self serving one.

Philip

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Now somewhere in this mass battle of stats and forecasts Ive lost track of what the actual point was. Have I misunderstood but Im sure you are both arguing semantics’ on points that you both seem to generally agree. For the benefit of others can you confirm where you stand on the following, that is if you are able to read this of course. :animwink:


1. Park expansion, before 5th gate
2. More E tickets, aimed at non kids.
3. Extreme rides aimed at adults /teens rather than family
4. Is Universal true competition to WDW
5. Is IOAs attendance down to the lack of new attractions.


The issue Speck raises about choice is a good one, its something we have batted around for this trip, unfortunately our decision doesn’t mach the forecast, and we have decided to cut days at WDW to experience other things. We have always visited Universal, and when IOA/ AK opened we dropped Sea World and Wet N Wild, and thanks to BB ive never made it to the Space centre.

The only issue that I suppose will be difficult to factor into predictions, is how today’s youth and young adults will change/ adjust their interests as they age, and will this change the demographics in park attendance?

But please will somebody just build a quality dark ride not based on a movie.

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

1. Park expansion, before 5th gate
2. More E tickets, aimed at non kids.
3. Extreme rides aimed at adults /teens rather than family
4. Is Universal true competition to WDW
5. Is IOAs attendance down to the lack of new attractions.

1 - Agree - plus a certain amount of paint and repairs needed to existing attractions
2 - Agree again
3 - Disagree - Disney will always be a famaily experience - the proportion of family attractions should always outnumber extreme rides UNLESS Disneys rumoured 5th park is based upon (and better than) IOA
4 - No - apart from Shrek and Mummy USF is a very poor second to MGM - closing of classics like King Kong, Ghostbusters etc have done nothing for business
5 - Possibly but more likely the novelty has worn off and the theming within the park isn't anywhere near Disneys standards

 

[DisneyFreak529]

That is pretty cool thanks for the info!!

 

[no2apprentice]

We have always visited Universal, and when IOA/ AK opened we dropped Sea World and Wet N Wild, and thanks to BB ive never made it to the Space centre.

We went to the Space Center on our trip in 2000, and I really enjoyed it. I found it illuminating, informative, and inspiring. My wife operates a $400,000 ultrasound device everyday for a living, so she appreciated some of the technology. Plus, her dad had worked for a contractor for NASA back in the 60's, so she appreciated actually seeing some of the things he would talk about when he came home.

Our boys, who were 11 and 8 at the time, found the most exciting part of the Center was watching the alligators in the drainage ditches. They would have been more impressed if there was a mock up of the Millennium Falcon to walk through.

Oh, well, so much for real rocket science. :lol:

If you ever make it there, go ahead and pay for the extended tour. It's worth it and far more interesting.

 

[mkepcotmgmak]

in reference to the original post from miceage...

i don't think any company would have to 'force' disney to build a fifth park... the magic kingdom could survive by itself.

 

[Lynx04]

The goal of adding an additional park is to increase capacity. Adding a park will not increase the attendence enough to sustain it. You must have a market to sustain it. In other words, there must be enough people to fill the park up, in order to operate it. Adding a park may only increase overall attendence about 7% to 10%. That is not enough to make the park profitable. Adding a new attraction will boost attendence about the same amount as adding a new park.

The point is, park additions should not be used as a method of increaseing attendence, but rather capacity. Build attractions to increase attendence.

 

[speck76]

The goal of adding an additional park is to increase capacity. Adding a park will not increase the attendence enough to sustain it. You must have a market to sustain it. In other words, there must be enough people to fill the park up, in order to operate it. Adding a park may only increase overall attendence about 7% to 10%. That is not enough to make the park profitable. Adding a new attraction will boost attendence about the same amount as adding a new park.

The point is, park additions should not be used as a method of increaseing attendence, but rather capacity. Build attractions to increase attendence.

Makes sense.....

The current parks are not running anywhere near capacity (MGM is 3.5 million down from where it was in the early 90's). I don't even think you can add attractions to increase attendance.......

Replacement attractions give the marketing department something to market, which will keep people coming....could possibly increase attendance. If certain other facotrs are involved (economy, terror) there is not much that will increase attendance, but perhaps the marketing will allow the park not to lose as much attendance.

Additional Attractions add capacity to parks, but does any park need "additional attractions" in the current market, as no park is running near capacity levels on a regular basis.

Additional parks add capacity, and steal market share from other parks, including parks owned by the same company. Overall attendance could go up, but not by the factor of 1:1 (i.e. TDL used to get 17mil per year, now, between TDL and TDS, both parks get 24mil, so the additional guests only increase by .35)

 

[stitchcastle]

I for one have always dreamed of a 5th park (my sig says it all) but i do believe that if disney wants to kep it's potential competition at bay, the answer is not in building new rides or new parks but rather, staging big new events. WDW's highest attendance levels came during the 25th celebration and the current HCOE seems to be a hit.

what WDW needs are huge new "events" to draw in more people. sort of like how the Tokyo resort gets by. (Cinderellabration, Rhythms of the World, Aladdin's Whole New World, Blazing Rhythms, Princess Days are all parts of Tokyo's big events/celebrations). It's these big character driven celebrations that are what Disney will have an edge with against any potential threat.

 

[marni1971]

I thought the powers that be at Team Disney, USF and SeaWorld all admitted a few years ago Orlando was at saturation point - adding more full parks just means less days spent in the existing parks, not more days on vacation.

 

[speck76]

I thought the powers that be at Team Disney, USF and SeaWorld all admitted a few years ago Orlando was at saturation point - adding more full parks just means less days spent in the existing parks, not more days on vacation.

Even before DAK and IOA were built, Orlando was thought to be at a saturation point......these parks just furthered that point.

And let's face it, a theme park is a theme park, is a theme park. It does not matter the theme, it does not matter the intensity of the attractions, they all provide the same concept and experience.

Discovery Cove is now having its 5th anniversary, and has been very successful. It is a "new" experience to Orlando, which is probably why it has done very well, where other new parks have not.

The future in Orlando is not new theme parks, regardless of the theme and intensity of attractions (another reason why USF sold the Lockheed land), but new experiences.

 

[speck76]

what WDW needs are huge new "events" to draw in more people. sort of like how the Tokyo resort gets by. (Cinderellabration, Rhythms of the World, Aladdin's Whole New World, Blazing Rhythms, Princess Days are all parts of Tokyo's big events/celebrations). It's these big character driven celebrations that are what Disney will have an edge with against any potential threat.

I agree.

To me, The Food and Wine festival is a great example of a huge event that attracts a new guest to Orlando. Epcot becomes much busier than it should be otherwise during that time of year, and a great deal of people go to Epcot jsut for the event, not for the rides or shows.

The flower and garden festival is another example.

There was an article earlier this year that stated Disney now has about 180 days that are considered "festival days", up from 120 a few years ago. These festivals draw people in that might not go.

I am not sure TDL can be used as an example, as the target markets are different (95% of visitors to TDL come from Metro Tokyo)

Halloween at DLP is another great example....Halloween did not exist in France prior to DLP (it is an American holiday based on a Celtic holiday), but it has become something big over there.

 

[Lynx04]

Additional Attractions add capacity to parks, but does any park need "additional attractions" in the current market, as no park is running near capacity levels on a regular basis.

Which is why attractions like COP are seasonal. You're right adding attraction also increases capacity.

 

[Chape19714]

1 - Agree - plus a certain amount of paint and repairs needed to existing attractions
2 - Agree again
3 - Disagree - Disney will always be a famaily experience - the proportion of family attractions should always outnumber extreme rides UNLESS Disneys rumoured 5th park is based upon (and better than) IOA
4 - No - apart from Shrek and Mummy USF is a very poor second to MGM - closing of classics like King Kong, Ghostbusters etc have done nothing for business
5 - Possibly but more likely the novelty has worn off and the theming within the park isn't anywhere near Disneys standards

I agree that Disney is no match for Universal, and most people come to Florida for Disney, but, as far as locals go, there is a concern, as many teens prefer going to IOA non-stop, due to the coasters, the average family will not think this way, but as far as local business goes, teens go for the thrill rides. I strongly agree family-friendly attractions should outnumber extreme rides. DCA does a good job of thrill rides for the whole family (golden zepher, grizzly river run, mulholland madness, soarin', etc.), extreme thrills (screamin', maliboomer, ToT, etc.), kid attractions (jumpin jellyfish, bugs land, soon to be monster's inc.) and entertainment (aladdin, block party bash, electrical parade, muppets, etc.)

NOT THAT DCA IS A GOOD COMPARASION! I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT AT ALL!! i am just trying to say that there should be a balance, DCA is not as successful as Disney hoped, but i just used it for the balance comparsion, and it was the 1st park that came to mind other than the Magic Kingdom.

Thunder Mountain is a perfect example of a great attraction. Kids, Parents, and teens love it! Attractions like this are the Disney rides that we all love (other than the "classics")

I used DCA for an example because It is a good park, and I think it stands up to Disney Quality, however, it is not as succesful as Disney wanted. California locals think it's not doing well because it was over-hyped. Like Stitch, Disney led us to believe it would be more than it actually turned out to be. No matter what the 5th park is, we can't over-hype it, and prepare ourselves for dissapointment from the start. So don't take the rumers too seriously, just take them for what they are worth.

I just want to say whatever the park is...it should have balance, not be over-hyped, and still have a family atmosphere, even though it may attract an older crowd. The future of WDW has many unanswered questions.

 

[speck76]

as many teens prefer going to IOA non-stop, due to the coasters

most teens do not have the money/ability to go alone....therefore, the decision is not theirs to make.....and if it was, they do not spend what a "typical family" would spend at the park.

 

[Rosso11]

most teens do not have the money/ability to go alone....therefore, the decision is not theirs to make.....and if it was, they do not spend what a "typical family" would spend at the park.

I do not really agree with you as far as local visitors are concerned. Throughout most of the retail industry it is the teens who are by far the biggest spenders. They have very few bills to pay and have a very large disposible income. Just think of any local mall. They can not exist without teenagers. When I lived in Orlando 90% of the local teens would go to IOA over DIsney any day, and they do spend money especially on typical park food. This is the reason the Halloween Harror nights are so important to Universal and why it has been rumored that Disney is even considering doing there own horror nights at MGM, to try and steel some of the teens back, and this also the main reason Disney keeps adding more thrill rides. Do not under estimate the importance of teenagers.

 

[rogerrabbitfan9]

I do not really agree with you as far as local visitors are concerned. Throughout most of the retail industry it is the teens who are by far the biggest spenders. They have very few bills to pay and have a very large disposible income. Just think of any local mall. They can not exist without teenagers. When I lived in Orlando 90% of the local teens would go to IOA over DIsney any day, and they do spend money especially on typical park food. This is the reason the Halloween Harror nights are so important to Universal and why it has been rumored that Disney is even considering doing there own horror nights at MGM, to try and steel some of the teens back, and this also the main reason Disney keeps adding more thrill rides. Do not under estimate the importance of teenagers.

Teens make up a good local market, but out of town teens are the promblem.

Orlando as a whole is under saturation. Parks are not needed. Parks are.

 

[mkepcotmgmak]

The goal of adding an additional park is to increase capacity. Adding a park will not increase the attendence enough to sustain it. You must have a market to sustain it. In other words, there must be enough people to fill the park up, in order to operate it. Adding a park may only increase overall attendence about 7% to 10%. That is not enough to make the park profitable. Adding a new attraction will boost attendence about the same amount as adding a new park.

The point is, park additions should not be used as a method of increaseing attendence, but rather capacity. Build attractions to increase attendence.

the great thing about that theory is... with added attractions, they can actually allow more people into the parks!

i would like to see DAK be fully built up, with two more added lands at least, as well as see several makeovers in MK, and a LOT of overhauls and additions to the studios before even considering a 5th park!

 

[Chape19714]

most teens do not have the money/ability to go alone....therefore, the decision is not theirs to make.....and if it was, they do not spend what a "typical family" would spend at the park.

I do not agree with that. I am a teen living in Central Florida, and my friends and I go to the Theme Parks several times a year. Your viewpoint on our "limited budget" does make sense, but keep in mind: Parents like the parks as they are safe entertainment, probally even safer than the movie theatre, We do save up for these trips, and many of us are already passholders to one of the parks (wheather it be universal, disney, etc.), and some of us have relitives/friends who work in the parks, so tickets are easy to get. Even without tickets, we still take advantage of FL Resident discounts. It is not uncommon for me to go to the parks with friends while my parents relax back at Fort Wilderness, or take a day to themselves shopping or browsing through World Showcase. So, Teens do have an influence. And, for Field Trips, we hand out ballots on where teens want to go, and many times IOA wins, if not IOA, it is normally MGM.

I realize this only accounts for local teens, but still. And 5 teens spend the same as a family of 5 or more after meals, tickets, and gifts. One time we even took in a charactor lunch because we just saved for it, and wanted to! It was a blast! Rosso11 and rodgerrabbitfan9 are right, teens make up a great local market. Just go into MGM any Saturday, and count how many teens are there without parents. I can personally say that Disney is a blast to go to with a date!

 

[imagineer boy]

most teens do not have the money/ability to go alone....therefore, the decision is not theirs to make.....and if it was, they do not spend what a "typical family" would spend at the park.

Money or ability? Look at Patrick, he goes to WDW once a week. They can always get a season pass, and if they can't travel there without transportation, their parents can drive them.