ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
So this...won't save me money?
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Interesting Disney Parks Survey Question I got Today - Tiered Ticket Pricing by Season
- Thread starter MaxsDad
- Start date
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
They aren't investments at all. They are expenses. If you are looking to make your money work for you, and you are looking at timeshares, then you're an idiot.
Timeshares, and DVC in particular work for some people, and not for others. I like owning DVC, but I'm not in it to make money. I'm in it because I like vacationing at WDW, and I refuse to stay in a value resort to do so.
I don't count DVC, or my house, or my car, or my cell phone, you get the idea, among my investments.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
No, but if you go Monday through Thursday in the slowest dozen or so weeks of the year, you can pay the exact same rate as you do now! So it's like saving money because they didn't raise the price... yet.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
That depends on you. It COULD save you money. It could turn you off to WDW enough that you no longer go, therefore saving you mucho dinero.
ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
ProfSavage
Well-Known Member
Well I haven't been since 2006 so...
kucarachi
Active Member
When is enough, enough? You already tier the resorts per season, now on top of that we are going to charge you extra for visiting us when it's most convenient for you? So instead of doing all that garbage, how about just lowering ticket prices in the off season and leaving them alone the rest of the year. Who's in charge down there Scrooge Mcduck?
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
No Iger is, Scrooge McDuck is doing a Marley and he's not dead yet...
Wags14
Active Member
When is enough, enough?
Walt was bothered by the critics who accused him of trying to stick it to his guests for more money. He desired to keep Disneyland affordable. In a report of an account by Pat Williams in his book on Walt Disney he said, “Walt wanted to keep Disneyland affordable and was alarmed when the parking fee went from twenty five cents to fifty cents. That was huge to him. He once said, there will always be a 10 cent cup of coffee at Disneyland.
So sad, I wonder what Walt would think?
W.W.W.T
Walt was bothered by the critics who accused him of trying to stick it to his guests for more money. He desired to keep Disneyland affordable. In a report of an account by Pat Williams in his book on Walt Disney he said, “Walt wanted to keep Disneyland affordable and was alarmed when the parking fee went from twenty five cents to fifty cents. That was huge to him. He once said, there will always be a 10 cent cup of coffee at Disneyland.
So sad, I wonder what Walt would think?
W.W.W.T
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
So…. fun with numbers, Disney Tiered Pricing Edition.
First off, all data was the actual Observed Crowd Data as recorded by Touring Plans throughout 2014. Off-Peak times are the times I choose to be a level of 3 or below. Peak crowds I chose to be 8 or above. Average crowds were crowds defined as 4-7. Thats how I'm judging this anyways…. And no, i didn't get any special access from @lentesta. I paid for a subscription like everyone else and dug through the Historical Crowd Actuals from last year. This isn't an advertisement or an adverorial, this is simple number crunching from the only people paying attention and documenting the crowds…. I don't think I've duplicated any of their work, as I just used them as a source for the data.
So looking at 2014 for the entire Resort:
There *IS* a dead period. From the final week of August through the Final week of September, there were 26 straight "Off Peak" days. (Including a crowd level of 4, the low end of average, resulted in 34 straight days!) The absolute best time of the year to visit WDW is the 10 days after Labor Day, with 10 straight days with a crowd size of 1.
Beyond that, Off Peak periods seem to be a day or two, here and there. The most common off-peak days are Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. There were 16 Tuesdays and Wednesdays being "off peak" while 15 Thursdays were "off peak". The least common "off-peak" day is Saturday, with only 4 days out of the year being "Off-Peak". There were 7 Fridays and 7 Sundays considered off peak while 9 Mondays fell into that category.
By Month?
Clearly, September is the time to go with 24 days being "off-peak." December came in second, with 10 days of "off-peak," followed by January with 8 and February, August and October all having 7. May had 5, November 3, April 2 days and March with one "off-peak" day. June and July did not record an off peak day.
June is by far the most average month, crowd wise. There weren't any peak nor any off-peak days.
Saturdays were the most average day of the week, crowd wise with only 4 reaching off-peak yet only 2 reaching peak.
When is the worst time to come? Between Christmas and New Years. 9 of the final 10 days of the year reached Peak Crowds. Thanksgiving week needs to be avoided as that had several peak days in a row. Easter was early in 2014 and that was another peak week. The surprising was a peak week at the beginning of August.
There didn't seem to be a pattern with the peak day by day of the week. There were 8 Tuesdays and Thursdays that reached peak, with 7 Sundays, Mondays and Wednesdays.
Looking at Peak Crowds by Park? Doesn't matter, All Parks had within 3 days of peak crowds for that park, or roughly 14% of the time. (MK/DAK both with 54 days, DHS 51 and EP 52)
Off Peak? Different Story. If you were avoiding the crowds, 1/3rd of the time DHS was by far the place to be. a whopping 34% of the time, Studios had an Off-Peak Crowd (124 days). DAK was 30% (111) while Epcot had 26% off-peak crowds (95) and MK only had a slow day 18% of the time (68 days)
For the ultimate Peak/Dead Crowds and the Minutia? MK had 9 crowds of a 10 (2.5% of the time), Epcot 15 (4.1%), DHS had one week (7 for 1.9% of the time) and DAK only had 3 (0.82%). Conversely, MK had 30 days of a 1 Ranked Crowd (8.2% of the year), Epcot had 25 (6.8% of the time, DHS 32 (8.8%) and DAK 27 (7.4%)
For an Average Crowd? MK got the most, 67% of their crowds were Average for that Park. The others were with a few percentage points, with Epcot at 60% of the time you would get an average crowd, DHS had 52% of the time an average crowd and DAK at 55% of the time.
Conclusions from that? MK has the most steady crowd, DHS fluctuates the most. DHS is more often than not the "dead" park while MK is the least.
DHS simply is not drawing a crowd and the numbers prove that as 1/3rd of the entire year, they have an off-peak crowd. Similar numbers from DAK as they're clearly in trouble. The Data supports this. 20% of the time, the entire resort was off-peak but 34% of the time DHS drew and off-peak crowd. That's a 14% variance that is out of line with the rest of the resort. These numbers are problems as there is nothing new coming online at DAK until 2017 with Avatar & Rivers of Light, and nothing actually green-lit whatsoever at DHS, despite the rumors of a Toy Story/Pixar area and Star Wars which could be 2020/21. What is disheartening is that I can't believe that Disney would let the crowds at DHS stay at that level for the next five years. You simply cannot have a theme park in Orlando that has an off-peak crowd 1 out of every 3 days. Imagine if they didn't get a bump from last year's Frozen Summer Fun? Alas, Moving on….
So, Why are we here, why are we having this conversation and the million dollar question, does the Tiered pricing Calendar put forth by Disney (as posted by @MaxsDad in This Post) accurately represent the crowd dynamics at WDW?
Yes and No.
For example, June is a very Average Crowd month but Disney is putting forth 4 Peak and 6 Off Peak days while the data reflects it should be entirely an average crowd. July is put as peak time yet I only show 6 peak days; the rest of the month is an average crowd. September is accurately reflected for the most part. November and December is pretty much on the money. It would be insanely picky to breakdown all the differences, alas the two datasets are similar, with July being the only real discrepancy, the data doesn't support the entire month as a peak crowd.
So as much as I hate to admit this…. (And I really, really, really despise admitting this), the Data supports that calendars put forth by the mouse in the survey are pretty close to how life is.
First off, all data was the actual Observed Crowd Data as recorded by Touring Plans throughout 2014. Off-Peak times are the times I choose to be a level of 3 or below. Peak crowds I chose to be 8 or above. Average crowds were crowds defined as 4-7. Thats how I'm judging this anyways…. And no, i didn't get any special access from @lentesta. I paid for a subscription like everyone else and dug through the Historical Crowd Actuals from last year. This isn't an advertisement or an adverorial, this is simple number crunching from the only people paying attention and documenting the crowds…. I don't think I've duplicated any of their work, as I just used them as a source for the data.
So looking at 2014 for the entire Resort:
- 43 days that I considered "Peak" or 12% of the year.
- 248 days that I considered to be "Average" or 68% of the year.
- 74 days that I considered "Off-Peak" or 20% of the year
There *IS* a dead period. From the final week of August through the Final week of September, there were 26 straight "Off Peak" days. (Including a crowd level of 4, the low end of average, resulted in 34 straight days!) The absolute best time of the year to visit WDW is the 10 days after Labor Day, with 10 straight days with a crowd size of 1.
Beyond that, Off Peak periods seem to be a day or two, here and there. The most common off-peak days are Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday. There were 16 Tuesdays and Wednesdays being "off peak" while 15 Thursdays were "off peak". The least common "off-peak" day is Saturday, with only 4 days out of the year being "Off-Peak". There were 7 Fridays and 7 Sundays considered off peak while 9 Mondays fell into that category.
By Month?
Clearly, September is the time to go with 24 days being "off-peak." December came in second, with 10 days of "off-peak," followed by January with 8 and February, August and October all having 7. May had 5, November 3, April 2 days and March with one "off-peak" day. June and July did not record an off peak day.
June is by far the most average month, crowd wise. There weren't any peak nor any off-peak days.
Saturdays were the most average day of the week, crowd wise with only 4 reaching off-peak yet only 2 reaching peak.
When is the worst time to come? Between Christmas and New Years. 9 of the final 10 days of the year reached Peak Crowds. Thanksgiving week needs to be avoided as that had several peak days in a row. Easter was early in 2014 and that was another peak week. The surprising was a peak week at the beginning of August.
There didn't seem to be a pattern with the peak day by day of the week. There were 8 Tuesdays and Thursdays that reached peak, with 7 Sundays, Mondays and Wednesdays.
Looking at Peak Crowds by Park? Doesn't matter, All Parks had within 3 days of peak crowds for that park, or roughly 14% of the time. (MK/DAK both with 54 days, DHS 51 and EP 52)
Off Peak? Different Story. If you were avoiding the crowds, 1/3rd of the time DHS was by far the place to be. a whopping 34% of the time, Studios had an Off-Peak Crowd (124 days). DAK was 30% (111) while Epcot had 26% off-peak crowds (95) and MK only had a slow day 18% of the time (68 days)
For the ultimate Peak/Dead Crowds and the Minutia? MK had 9 crowds of a 10 (2.5% of the time), Epcot 15 (4.1%), DHS had one week (7 for 1.9% of the time) and DAK only had 3 (0.82%). Conversely, MK had 30 days of a 1 Ranked Crowd (8.2% of the year), Epcot had 25 (6.8% of the time, DHS 32 (8.8%) and DAK 27 (7.4%)
For an Average Crowd? MK got the most, 67% of their crowds were Average for that Park. The others were with a few percentage points, with Epcot at 60% of the time you would get an average crowd, DHS had 52% of the time an average crowd and DAK at 55% of the time.
Conclusions from that? MK has the most steady crowd, DHS fluctuates the most. DHS is more often than not the "dead" park while MK is the least.
DHS simply is not drawing a crowd and the numbers prove that as 1/3rd of the entire year, they have an off-peak crowd. Similar numbers from DAK as they're clearly in trouble. The Data supports this. 20% of the time, the entire resort was off-peak but 34% of the time DHS drew and off-peak crowd. That's a 14% variance that is out of line with the rest of the resort. These numbers are problems as there is nothing new coming online at DAK until 2017 with Avatar & Rivers of Light, and nothing actually green-lit whatsoever at DHS, despite the rumors of a Toy Story/Pixar area and Star Wars which could be 2020/21. What is disheartening is that I can't believe that Disney would let the crowds at DHS stay at that level for the next five years. You simply cannot have a theme park in Orlando that has an off-peak crowd 1 out of every 3 days. Imagine if they didn't get a bump from last year's Frozen Summer Fun? Alas, Moving on….
So, Why are we here, why are we having this conversation and the million dollar question, does the Tiered pricing Calendar put forth by Disney (as posted by @MaxsDad in This Post) accurately represent the crowd dynamics at WDW?
Yes and No.
For example, June is a very Average Crowd month but Disney is putting forth 4 Peak and 6 Off Peak days while the data reflects it should be entirely an average crowd. July is put as peak time yet I only show 6 peak days; the rest of the month is an average crowd. September is accurately reflected for the most part. November and December is pretty much on the money. It would be insanely picky to breakdown all the differences, alas the two datasets are similar, with July being the only real discrepancy, the data doesn't support the entire month as a peak crowd.
So as much as I hate to admit this…. (And I really, really, really despise admitting this), the Data supports that calendars put forth by the mouse in the survey are pretty close to how life is.
bjlc57
Well-Known Member
this is economics.. there IS ALWAYS A TIPPING POINT. always.. the problem is , that once you reach it.. its very very hard to come back to being on the correct side.. its a very very slippery slope.. but Disney is pushing the limits.. you could have said the same about Gimbals.. they were as big if not bigger then Macy's.. its economics.. THERE IS A TIPPING POINT.. and every price raise.. Disney gets closer to it..
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
I commented on this a bit ago on the Spirited Perfect Ten thread and I'll likely copy this over.
But you are absolutely correct. Disney wants this out in the public to prepare them for what is coming. I am wondering if we're going to see some of this enacted before summer (yes, like in the next few weeks) as the media campaign to plant this and spin it as something good for Guests (only Disney could screw people and convince them that it was for their own good ... only Disney!) has moved along at warp speed.
They don't care about us. They don't care about our input. They care about corporate profiteering. They already likely have posts for the Disney Parks Blog penned by Thomas.Smith@disney.com or Jennifer.J.Fickley@disney.com or maybe even Robert.Chapek@disney.com already touting their 'revolutionary' new ticketing plan (about as revolutionary as RFID tracking bands and keyless door locks!) ready to go.
Oh, as far as the black-helicopter-ish stuff ... save that for say ... I dunno ... an exclusive home community that isn't all that it appears. Most of Disney's surveys are very easy to copy if you have just a bit of tech savvy.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I do not expect it to be derailed. I think the PR machine will continue to spin it as the next big thing.
It wont spread the crowd out as the Peak/Non-Peak pricing is reflective of how the crowds at WDW are. Its just simple price gouging, just getting an extra 10 bucks/person on the 43-ish days of the year they have a peak crowd.
rob0519
Well-Known Member
Well, it may take another National recession to hit that tipping point on a grand enough scale for it to hurt Disney.
Our personal tipping point has already been hit. Between 1996 and now, our visits have gone from twice a year, to once a year, to once every 18 months, to once every two years and now it may be once every three years. We've been the the World and done what it has to offer. Don't get me wrong, for all it's flaws, there is still no where else like it. For people who have never been though, I see them saving for an additional year or putting that first trip on a credit card and dealing with it later. I would be though, that the repeat business from all first time visitors in the next five years will drop dramatically.
DisneyYorkian74
Active Member
One of the greatest thing I love about Walt Disney is that it appeared he saw no value in money.
Yes he needed money to make all of his creative dreams comes true, though that's where he placed his priority, his dreams.
Roy Disney was known for keeping the books, while Walt was known for keeping the company on the brink of bankruptcy with all of his projects and innoventions.
It's hard to see the Walt Disney Company as anything but the multi-billion dollar massive corporate conglomerate it is now, but it wasn't always that way...
Sorry to quote my own post, but I can not get this thought out of my head the last couple of days: Imagine:
You're are a key decision maker for one of the largest entertainment conglomerates on Earth. You have one of the most recognizable brands worldwide. You have developed emotional connections with your customers that span generations and run extremely deep. The public's perception of your core values is right in line prevailing culture today. It's time to make a change to one of your products. You are the industry leader, so there is really nobody else to look to in your industry. Where do you look? Whose model can we incorporate?
Do you call your "friends" at Apple? They make wonderfully loved, intuitive, easy to use products that dominate the marketplace. They are cutting edge. Their customers love them. We know people there. But, no.
Do we look to our new friends at Starbucks? They seem to be on a similar mission to dominate the Earth. They know how to make a good product and get people to pay outrageous prices and get a low cost item in return. No.
Hey, do we know anybody from Pixar even? The certainly are creative. They have created some of the best storytelling in recent years. After all, we are in the storytelling business. Is there anything we can apply from their knowledge? No, no, no.
Then a young guy, slouching in his chair mumbles to himself, "What about the the US government?"
Everyone else stops talking. Head Guy in the Room says, "What did you say?"
"What about the government? But I was ....."
"No, no, no, go on."
"Well, you know the Healthcare Marketplace ... "
Head Guy jumps straight up out of his seat pointing at the Kid shouting "Yes! Yes! That's it!"
"Remember when we rolled out MyDisney Experience how smoothly that went, just like the Healthcare Reform System's Marketplace! Everyone was so confused, they did not have any idea what was going on. Billions were spent with no appreciable benefits. These are our people! Now the question is, how do we incorporate this further into our pricing structure?"
Some one says, "Well, they have Gold, Silver, and Bronze plans for the Average Joes out there." There is silence in the room. People are looking around at each other speechless. They know they have just witnessed a moment.
"GENIUS!!"
BrianV
Well-Known Member
Comparing an essential government service with the way an amusement park sells tickets seems a stretch. But I suppose we could find similarities with the ACA, the DOD or any program or branch of the government if you look closely enough.
I imagine the conversation largely centered around those days when they COULD actually get away with charging surge prices and get away with it. (Christmas week, 4th of July week, etc) and then spiraled. What business wouldn't charge more if it could. If mcdonalds could raise their prices by 25% with no loss in sales, would they? If apple could charge twice as much for an iphone with no loss in sales, would they? Ask that question of virtually any business.
As I wrote earlier, I expect this may morph into two tiers, premium with no black out dates, and regulat with blackout dates. That would be less confusing and similar to the way passes are sold.
Do I like this plan, or the increase, no! I think it is designed to advertise one official price (the bronze price) but have most people pay an inflated on (the gold). Rather like a store that says "prices as low as $9.99" when only one item is that cheap. But if they can get it, they and every other buisiness on the planet would do it.
raven
Well-Known Member
Haha! What about the millions of dollars they already have to spend on new attractions? Do you see them rapidly spending that money on filling up the parks with a bunch of new rides? No. This money is for their pockets.
Yet durring that time it's extremely difficult to get a table at a sit-down restaurant due to the free dining plan offer.
Will people keep paying these prices if they continue to raise them like this twice per year? Yes, but the families visiting may start to change to households with higher income. So will the guests who have been faithful to Disney by spending their vacations every year at the parks still be paying when prices keep going up? There will definately be families that are dropping out for a better bang for their buck elswhere. I personally have several "Disney" friends who now take they families on vacations in other countries for cheaper than a week in WDW.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Sorry, I though my sarcasm was obvious.
yensid67
Well-Known Member
I am an amateur when thinking about stuff like this, but to me it wouldn't seem feasible to do a tier pricing system, just to thin crowds out during peak seasons, then the off seasons will become crowded and then you'll have the same problem down the road. Walt wanted the park to be for everyone, not just those who can afford it!
The parks are crowded for a reason, I think its because too many brands of movies are in one location. Which is why I think they need to build or have a park for each movie brand (Star Wars, Animation, etc) Just an idea!
The parks are crowded for a reason, I think its because too many brands of movies are in one location. Which is why I think they need to build or have a park for each movie brand (Star Wars, Animation, etc) Just an idea!