Interesting Disney Parks Survey Question I got Today - Tiered Ticket Pricing by Season

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but the "premium" is 2/3 of the year. :rolleyes:
It looks like "Gold days" would be about 25% of the year, with "Silver days" and "Bronze days" roughly splitting the remaining 75%. However, with 49 weekends being either Silver or Gold and the survey's plan to upcharge for stays that split across 2 categories, these percentages are deceptive. Effectively, this could be the biggest ticket price increase since the 1980s.

Perhaps more surprising, pricing would seem to punish those who decide to spend more than 5 days at WDW. Is Disney trying to encourage shorter stays, where the per day ticket price is higher?
Because business is not about income, it is about profit. Attracting more guests is not always a good thing. It costs more to attract and serve those guests.

I like to refer to an analysis I did a few years ago when I was involved in a small movie theatre chain. People always talked about lowering concession prices to increase sales. What I determined was that if you cut the prices in half, even if you actually doubled sales (which you wouldn't), you would end up making less profit. You would make less gross margin and it would take more staff to sell the product.

Disney is selling theme park admission but it is the same concept. With your idea, you are asking them to spend more to bring in more people but there is a point where attracting more people leads to a lower profit due to the capital expense and the staffing expense. Also, no matter how many attractions you try to add, each park will reach a practical limit.

If you somehow added 10 attractions to MK and it increased attendance 50%, you'd still end up with a miserable experience with ridiculous lines.
Can't have profit without revenue. I'll take lots of revenue and figure out ways to grow profit from it but if the revenue goes away, so does the profit.

Any pointy haired boss can jack up prices and improve short-term profitability. The more complex balancing act is maximizing long-term profitability. Are aggressive price increases without offsetting Guest enhancements healthy for WDW's long-term business?

Hotels and amusement parks cost structures are different than goods (i.e. concessions). Goods typically have per unit cost of sales. Hotels and amusement parks have relatively fixed costs regardless of usage. Thus, relatively small gains in occupancy or attendance can lead to appreciable gains in profitability.

WDW's attendance has climbed steadily by about 2% annually since opening, with hotel occupancy hovering around 85-90% when the business was healthy. Prices typically have risen 3-5% annually, resulting in a steady growth of revenue and profitability.

Over the decades, there have been 2 major factors altering this pattern.

First, the economy. As a luxury item, a WDW vacation is affected by the economy but, as a result of higher prices relative to household income, WDW has become increasingly susceptible to recessions. During difficult economic times, consumers seek value. Relative to other vacation options, WDW used to offer a better value in decades past and, therefore, profitability was less affected by economic downturns. Today's WDW is priced as a premium product which is why, for example, Disney's Parks & Resorts operating margin plummeted to an all-time low of 12.2% during the last recession but averaged a healthy 20.3% during all recessions before that. WDW's higher prices are making Disney's Parks & Resorts segment more susceptible to recessions.

Second, investment. WDW has seen large jumps in revenue and profitability through investments in its theme parks. It's only through investment that WDW has become the financial juggernaut that it is today. This pattern is repeating itself at today's Universal, where Diagon Alley has led to a tremendous jump in the profitability of Universal's Theme Parks division. A smart investment in WDW will lead to further profitability for Disney in Orlando.

Moving forward, perhaps the single largest challenge facing WDW is that their per theme park attendance is approaching a level where Guests are increasingly dissatisfied with the overall experience, potentially damaging repeat business.

WDW Per Park Attendance.jpg



This doesn't mean WDW won't have repeat business; only that they will see less of it, affecting long-term profitability. A family who could have visited once every two years might instead cut back to once every three or four years if they feel they've paid too much for what was a less than "magical" experience.

Remember, most WDW Guests visit only once every few years. Many visiting today last visited when crowds were considerably lower. They arrive at WDW with one crowd level in their memories, only to experience something altogether different today. What they experience in crowds and prices this year will affect their vacation decisions for years to come.

Disney needs to do something to address this growing concern. Raising ticket prices at theme parks that are increasingly overcrowded ain't it. :D
 
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CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Perhaps more surprising, pricing would seem to punish those who decide to spend more than 5 days at WDW.
That IS curious. If I'm visiting on a Bronze week but Saturday/Sunday would force me to pay Silver prices for the entire seven days, I'm much more likely to skip those days to keep myself in Bronze pricing. It's completely the opposite of what they should be incentivizing because it risks cracking the bubble or simply shortening my entire trip. The last thing they want to do is jeopardize room nights in the pursuit of admission pricing.
 

prfctlyximprct

Well-Known Member
That IS curious. If I'm visiting on a Bronze week but Saturday/Sunday would force me to pay Silver prices for the entire seven days, I'm much more likely to skip those days to keep myself in Bronze pricing. It's completely the opposite of what they should be incentivizing because it risks cracking the bubble or simply shortening my entire trip. The last thing they want to do is jeopardize room nights in the pursuit of admission pricing.

This is so true.

Instead of Disney handing out surveys, we should be handing out links to this forum to them. You want answers.. Read it here.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day Disney is not eggs, water, bread, rice, wheat or oil. I am not an economist, and the couple of business classes from college were a long time ago. Wikipedia is nice to have a section of some example PEDs, so you can see how much variation there is for, say, airline tickets, cinema visits, live performing arts, and Mountain Dew there at -4.4. So where's Disney? Historically, the claim is that Disney does better than their peers. But that's based on data that was collected during time periods, the "it's a business" crowd is quick to point when "Disney was a different company." So how valid is that old data in predicting future behavior? Post 9/11 was really rough for WDW and I see Parentsof4 has posted some financials about the last recession.

And as much as people talk about "first timers," I think that's not quite accurate. I think in many families, one or both parents had visited as a child, at least among domestic visitors, and I don't think we know how current Disney will be embraced by that group. Today's parents are children of the 80's and the Disney Decade, and they are flocking. The children post 1998 (where I draw the line, although it can be argued that it started earlier), and certainly children who came in the 2000s aren't old enough to be making decisions about bringing their kids. Disney has a great "renewable" resource, like the movies where the claim is the audience resets every 7 years. It shields them from the fallout of major changes because natural turnover means the people they upset may not be coming back anyway - at least not for 20 years. But because of that "delay" it means that Disney could be following the Roadrunner off a cliff like Wylie E Coyote, who suddenly looks down and realizes land was 10 feet back there. Major operational changes, major price increases, delayed investment...that's a combo I am not comfortable with.
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
For the record, I agree with you completely on how quality has dropped off at WDW when compared to previous decades. And when today's price is compared to those standards, the value of going to WDW is greatly diminished.

And I also agree with you that this country has a major problem with corporate greed and its obsession with stock market values and maximizing profit above all else.

But it doesn't really change the fact that: A) in this current climate, the price that Disney is charging is not necessarily out of line when compared to other entertainment offerings, and B) Disney will continue to nickel and dime people regardless of the quality of its product as long as the masses keep coming to WDW.

Do I think Disney is too expensive? Yes (DHS is barely worth $40 right now) but I also think paying anything over $30 bucks for a sporting event is too much (to say nothing of paying $15 for a burger or $10 for a beer). Unfortunately, the marketplace disagrees. You'd think it would eventually stop as people finally wise up and realize, "Holy carp, this is WAY too expensive!" but it seemingly has yet to happen.
Will they get rid of the free dining plans? They would use them to get people to the parks on the slow season. If families sign up for the bronze (slow seasons) dates because it's cheaper, why not really bring in profits in with doing away with the free dining plan.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
That IS curious. If I'm visiting on a Bronze week but Saturday/Sunday would force me to pay Silver prices for the entire seven days, I'm much more likely to skip those days to keep myself in Bronze pricing. It's completely the opposite of what they should be incentivizing because it risks cracking the bubble or simply shortening my entire trip. The last thing they want to do is jeopardize room nights in the pursuit of admission pricing.

Which is totally messed up.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
What off-season? Hasn't existed for three-to-five years now.

January, February, late April to mid-May. Mid-September to mid-October. Early December....

All these time periods are significantly slower than the summer months, spring break time and around the holidays. If I go in the spring, I usually go early May. I went a week later this month and there was a noticeable difference in the amount of people at the parks.
 
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Andrew C

You know what's funny?
If they did this bronze, silver, gold tier system, whats to stop a family from just purchasing weekday tickets for bronze and silver price, and use the weekends to visit Uni and avoid Gold price? I know its only a small price difference, but for some, it may be enough to sway their decision to actually visit Uni instead.

Uni will just match the prices anyways. Don't they always increase when WDW does?
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
January, February, late April to mid-May. Mid-September to mid-October. Early December....

All these time periods are significantly slower than the summer months, spring break time and around the holidays. If I go in the spring, I usually go early May. I went a week later this month and there was a noticeable difference in the amount of people at the parks.

Honey, please..... Don't tell someone who's lived there for 7 out of 10 years how the crowd works. The crowds are constantly over 50k/day at MK as an average. There's no offseason.

Especially when we have data from Touring Plans that's proves your assertion wrong.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Honey, please..... Don't tell someone who's lived there for 7 out of 10 years how the crowd works. The crowds are constantly over 50k/day at MK as an average. There's no offseason.

Especially when we have data from Touring Plans that's proves your assertion wrong.

Please what? You think that the crowds are just as big during the months I mentioned compared to summer, spring break, and the holidays? Early May is as busy as late May after memorial day when school lets out? Early December is as busy as late December around the holidays? Pleeeassse right back at you.

And I am no ones honey except my DW. ;)
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Please what? You think that the crowds are just as big during the months I mentioned compared to summer, spring break, and the holidays? Early May is as busy as late May after memorial day when school lets out? Early December is as busy as late December around the holidays? Pleeeassse right back at you.

And I am no ones honey except my DW. ;)

Honey honey honey...

You're not going to convince me otherwise.

There isn't an off-season since 2007-ish. September 2004 was a glorious offseason... Absolutely beautiful. No lines.

Day and night difference between September 2014.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Honey honey honey...

You're not going to convince me otherwise.

There isn't an off-season since 2007-ish. September 2004 was a glorious offseason... Absolutely beautiful. No lines.

Day and night difference between September 2014.

Sounds good. No off season. In that case you should make a rule for yourself to only visit the parks in the summer, spring/March break, and over the holidays.

I will stick to late September and early May. It won't matter though because we will both experience the same crowd levels at the parks. It is a win-win for both of us.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Because business is not about income, it is about profit. Attracting more guests is not always a good thing. It costs more to attract and serve those guests.

I like to refer to an analysis I did a few years ago when I was involved in a small movie theatre chain. People always talked about lowering concession prices to increase sales. What I determined was that if you cut the prices in half, even if you actually doubled sales (which you wouldn't), you would end up making less profit. You would make less gross margin and it would take more staff to sell the product.

Disney is selling theme park admission but it is the same concept. With your idea, you are asking them to spend more to bring in more people but there is a point where attracting more people leads to a lower profit due to the capital expense and the staffing expense. Also, no matter how many attractions you try to add, each park will reach a practical limit.

If you somehow added 10 attractions to MK and it increased attendance 50%, you'd still end up with a miserable experience with ridiculous lines.
You're halfway right. The MK had more capacity back in 1995. DL currently has more attraction capacity, but not overall area because the walkways are too small.

Disney needs to invest in the MK and Epcot. Part of the crowding problem is that they've closed people-eating attractions (e.g. Wonders of Life was popular in its early days), or replaced them with subpar attractions that either don't attract as many guests or can't cycle many per hour (Imagination, Dwarfs Mine Train).

Fastpass Plus has created artificial overcrowding and is an insane Ops problem, so much that Iger has announced it will not roll out to DL or DLP.

You are correct in saying Disney is a business and has to make financially sound decisions, but as @ParentsOf4 has demonstrated many times, Disney made more profit back when it regularly invested in its properties.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Sounds good. No off season. In that case you should make a rule for yourself to only visit the parks in the summer, spring/March break, and over the holidays.

I will stick to late September and early May. It won't matter though because we will both experience the same crowd levels at the parks. It is a win-win for both of us.

Now you're saying something else. You seem to be confusing crowd levels with an off-season. Yes, there are peak seasons.

But you're not really trying to suggest that 50k/day is an off-season, are you?

You're still wrong, btw.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I recently went to WDW early this month and I can say there definitely is an offseason.

At Universal.

MK had plenty of crowds as always. DHS seemed like the only Disney park with lighter than normal crowds.
 

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