EPCOT Inside Out to Replace Journey into Imagination with Figment?

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
What's your rationale for saying that?
When you only sell one thing, of course that is going to be your best seller. The franchise mandate was not born out of any sort of cold business decision, but a personal bias. Expedition Everest, despite its then huge cost, had a much lower cost per person than any of the attractions built since. It was a great return on investment that was disregarded because it is considered “nondescript” and was part of a business that was then hopefully going to be discarded.
 

huwar18

Well-Known Member
Just went back a couple of weeks and didn't see any mention of this topic so sorry if it was discussed.

I was listening to a recent podcast from Dizney Coast to Coast. I believe it was the one from June 19th with Imagineer Mark Eades. When he was asked about Figment and JII, he said most people don't care about Figment or kn0w who he is. What he did suggest I thought was brilliant.
Using Disney+ make an animated show around Figment. That would get people excited about his attraction when they came to Epcot. The attraction could be updated so that it ties in with the show. I would think that people inside Disney would find it a great project to come up with a story line for a new show and an attraction all at the same time.

Any thoughts?
I would love to see a Figment cartoon. They tried the Marvel comic based on Figment. I absolutely love the comic. However, I’m not sure how popular or successful it is.
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
Just went back a couple of weeks and didn't see any mention of this topic so sorry if it was discussed.

I was listening to a recent podcast from Dizney Coast to Coast. I believe it was the one from June 19th with Imagineer Mark Eades. When he was asked about Figment and JII, he said most people don't care about Figment or kn0w who he is. What he did suggest I thought was brilliant.
Using Disney+ make an animated show around Figment. That would get people excited about his attraction when they came to Epcot. The attraction could be updated so that it ties in with the show. I would think that people inside Disney would find it a great project to come up with a story line for a new show and an attraction all at the same time.

Any thoughts?

If that were true, Figment wouldn't be plastered over as much Epcot merchandise as he is.

I do think it's a really good idea - apparently there is going to be an Oswald series on Disney+, so a Figment one could work; I think the attractions and character of the parks are far more suited to a medium like Disney+ than they are to cinematic franchises in general. But I don't accept this notion that people don't care about Figment or are unaware of his existence. It seems an easy get-out now for anyone who wants to downplay or dismiss the notion of repairing the damage that Disney has done to Imagination, but there is really no basis for it - people know who Figment is, Disney just like to pretend otherwise when it suits them.
 

kurtk

Well-Known Member
If that were true, Figment wouldn't be plastered over as much Epcot merchandise as he is.

I do think it's a really good idea - apparently there is going to be an Oswald series on Disney+, so a Figment one could work; I think the attractions and character of the parks are far more suited to a medium like Disney+ than they are to cinematic franchises in general. But I don't accept this notion that people don't care about Figment or are unaware of his existence. It seems an easy get-out now for anyone who wants to downplay or dismiss the notion of repairing the damage that Disney has done to Imagination, but there is really no basis for it - people know who Figment is, Disney just like to pretend otherwise when it suits them.
Maybe I misquoted him or made it harsher than he intended, if so I apologize. Figment is popular for merchandise but the attraction isn't. (I know because I ride it almost every time I am in Epcot.) But it is not something I am going to recommend to friends going to Epcot for the first time.
I hate how the exit has been neglected for so long. Used to be fun for the kids when they were younger. You can still email someone a picture. WOW! ;)

I just liked the idea as a way to make the attraction as good as the character is.
 

FrankLapidus

Well-Known Member
Maybe I misquoted him or made it harsher than he intended, if so I apologize. Figment is popular for merchandise but the attraction isn't. (I know because I ride it almost every time I am in Epcot.) But it is not something I am going to recommend to friends going to Epcot for the first time.
I hate how the exit has been neglected for so long. Used to be fun for the kids when they were younger. You can still email someone a picture. WOW! ;)

I just liked the idea as a way to make the attraction as good as the character is.

I'm sure you haven't, this isn't the first time I've seen or heard that kind of sentiment expressed by someone connected to Disney.

I agree with you about the attraction, it is awful. But that's down to Disney's negligence; they had a classic and destroyed it. Twenty years later, they're still selling Figment hats, Figment mugs, Figment plush - they wouldn't still produce as much as of it as they do if nobody cared about or remembered Figment, it's just a baseless excuse they they like to trot out.

It is a smart idea - I think they could do a lot with the park attractions on Disney+; I know I'd watch animated shorts and series about the Tiki Birds, the Country Bears and the Haunted Mansion. I'd love to see a Figment and Dreamfinder series - the comic sold incredibly well so Disney can't say that there isn't an audience for those character - but I think sometimes it suits them to pretend that Figment is some obscure character from the 90's that no one really cares about, even as they sell the hats, mugs and plush.
 

AVAC Juice

Active Member
How about a 2019 iteration with the Dreamfinder?

We don't all want Epcot Center from the 1980's resurrected as it was then - some of us just aren't so creatively constrained and IP obsessed that we believe there is only one way to improve the parks.
In 2019 Imagineering should literally be blowing the capstone off of the Journey into Imagination pyramid with every effect and illusion imaginable.

It isn't all about technology. In the absence of cutting technology spilling over the sides, great storytelling and true artistic vision relevant to Epcot definately cuts it for me.

I'm not certain that every dreamer intern at WDI understands this.
 
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marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
When he was asked about Figment and JII, he said most people don't care about Figment or kn0w who he is.
There lies the fundamental flaw in today’s thinking. First timers to any attraction don’t know much about it. First timers to the original JII, Horizons, Spaceship Earth etc. would have had very little knowledge if any of what to expect. But they went on to be unbelievable popular.

Build a stunning attraction and they will come. Even more so with today’s connected society.
 

huwar18

Well-Known Member
In 2019 Imagineering should literally be blowing the capstone off of the Journey into Imagination pyramid with every effect and illusion imaginable.

It isn't all about technology. In the absence of cutting technology spilling over the sides, great storytelling and true artistic vision relevant to Epcot definately cuts it for me.

I'm not certain that every dreamer intern at WDI understands this.

The thing is I doubt the Imagineers have any say. I just imagine that the Imagineers have all of these amazing attractions and redesigns filed away because they were told if they don't have an IP attached they can't use them.
 

KevinPage

Well-Known Member
1. Most of management who makes the $$$ decisions has no knowledge (or care) for Disney history or the long term thinking of having a balance of IP & non IP attractions. All they care for is the quick easy fix that will generate more revenue and help the stock price.

2. Unfortunately, the ideology in #1 has worked so far, so why would management change their ways now? None of them are Disney “lifers” or plan to be. Nor do they seem to view the parks as anything more than a 💰🐄. They don’t feel it is something that needs to be nourished/cherished.

3. Our only savings grace (in this day and age) is that WDI pulls the right strings and can be as creative as possible at the right time.

4. RE: “Edutainment”, people don’t crave it or actively seek it out, they just want to have fun and be distracted from their regular boring lives. So the best attractions are the ones that educate and entertain, without asking anything of the guest going in. If you can WOW someone by enjoying something so much, while learning in the process, that’s the way to go.

And this is something I hope GOTG strives for AND accomplishes. If anything can pull it off, it’s this. People will flock to the ride based on name alone and be much more receptive to it than some random film in World Showcase trying to convey a message 😎
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
Totally unscientific take here, but it's something that's been on my mind:

I recently saw an article entitled "Why No One Watches Baseball Anymore"; as a huge fan of the game it was pretty heartbreaking stuff, but a lot came down to the league constantly chasing after the highest dollar totals and profits at the expense of planting the seeds for a future fanbase. So the games run longer mostly due to commercial breaks being longer and/or more frequent, many teams bilk the cities they're based in to the tune of hundreds of millions for publicly financed stadiums, the biggest games air at times that are awful for young kids (seriously, 8:40pm EST for the World Series, on school nights), etc. All of this is happening while TV platforms throw tons of money at the league despite its falling popularity, because currently TV networks and cable platforms are desperate for any and all live programming they can get, as that's about the only thing keeping even more people from cutting the cord. Ergo, the league doesn't really worry about fixing its issues: after all, they're making tons of money today, so who cares about tomorrow? Just ignore that the cable TV bubble is likely going to burst in a hideous way within the coming decade and focus on your current earnings, instead, right?

Put succinctly, Major League Baseball is just doing all it can to wring more money from its existing, aging fanbase, and its existing media platforms, despite most of them moving toward obsolescence or not being fully equipped for the current media landscape (e.g. MLB.tv online games having ridiculous blackout rules). The league is making money hand over fist today, so many will tell those with concerns to sit down and shut up, but anyone with even half an eye toward the future can see the light from the oncoming train.

I'm not about to fully equate Disney theme parks with Major League Baseball; that's obviously two very different entertainment mediums and two very different business models, so this certainly isn't an apples to apples comparison. But I do question the overall philosophical shift of Disney parks toward "throw in whatever people recognize" instead of aiming for more ambitious material, and how it reflects a short term, "MBA-style" focus on immediate profit over the cultivation of lifelong fans and a sterling reputation.

I don't remember the exact line, but Walt once said something during Disneyland's first decade along the lines of "don't worry about how much <something esoteric or seemingly unneeded> costs; put it in as part of a great show, and people will line up to come back again and again." When it opened, Journey Into Imagination was a concept like that: huge, ambitious, showy, effects-laden, beautifully crafted...and it was a massive success. Move away from EPCOT, and look at the effect Pirates, Mansion, and other rides have had across all Disney parks: people feel a connection with those attractions despite them not being based on any individual IP, and to this day people make the journey back to their park of choice to experience them.

Again, I have no evidence to back up anything I'm about to say, but I fear a future where the answer is always "just use a movie they'll recognize", "just add another meet n' greet", or "let 'em drink more"; I'm not opposed to any of those things in isolation (hell, I've done "Drinking Around the World" with no shame), but what so many people are asking for isn't 1982 EPCOT Center remade verbatim, but some kind of sign that Disney still has that level of ambition in them, particularly when other places without such big IP demands in recent history proves they can still pull it off, ala Tokyo DisneySea.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
Totally unscientific take here, but it's something that's been on my mind:

I recently saw an article entitled "Why No One Watches Baseball Anymore"; as a huge fan of the game it was pretty heartbreaking stuff, but a lot came down to the league constantly chasing after the highest dollar totals and profits at the expense of planting the seeds for a future fanbase. So the games run longer mostly due to commercial breaks being longer and/or more frequent, many teams bilk the cities they're based in to the tune of hundreds of millions for publicly financed stadiums, the biggest games air at times that are awful for young kids (seriously, 8:40pm EST for the World Series, on school nights), etc. All of this is happening while TV platforms throw tons of money at the league despite its falling popularity, because currently TV networks and cable platforms are desperate for any and all live programming they can get, as that's about the only thing keeping even more people from cutting the cord. Ergo, the league doesn't really worry about fixing its issues: after all, they're making tons of money today, so who cares about tomorrow? Just ignore that the cable TV bubble is likely going to burst in a hideous way within the coming decade and focus on your current earnings, instead, right?

Put succinctly, Major League Baseball is just doing all it can to wring more money from its existing, aging fanbase, and its existing media platforms, despite most of them moving toward obsolescence or not being fully equipped for the current media landscape (e.g. MLB.tv online games having ridiculous blackout rules). The league is making money hand over fist today, so many will tell those with concerns to sit down and shut up, but anyone with even half an eye toward the future can see the light from the oncoming train.

I'm not about to fully equate Disney theme parks with Major League Baseball; that's obviously two very different entertainment mediums and two very different business models, so this certainly isn't an apples to apples comparison. But I do question the overall philosophical shift of Disney parks toward "throw in whatever people recognize" instead of aiming for more ambitious material, and how it reflects a short term, "MBA-style" focus on immediate profit over the cultivation of lifelong fans and a sterling reputation.

I don't remember the exact line, but Walt once said something during Disneyland's first decade along the lines of "don't worry about how much <something esoteric or seemingly unneeded> costs; put it in as part of a great show, and people will line up to come back again and again." When it opened, Journey Into Imagination was a concept like that: huge, ambitious, showy, effects-laden, beautifully crafted...and it was a massive success. Move away from EPCOT, and look at the effect Pirates, Mansion, and other rides have had across all Disney parks: people feel a connection with those attractions despite them not being based on any individual IP, and to this day people make the journey back to their park of choice to experience them.

Again, I have no evidence to back up anything I'm about to say, but I fear a future where the answer is always "just use a movie they'll recognize", "just add another meet n' greet", or "let 'em drink more"; I'm not opposed to any of those things in isolation (hell, I've done "Drinking Around the World" with no shame), but what so many people are asking for isn't 1982 EPCOT Center remade verbatim, but some kind of sign that Disney still has that level of ambition in them, particularly when other places without such big IP demands in recent history proves they can still pull it off, ala Tokyo DisneySea.
Shame really. Baseball is such a great sport.
 

starri42

Well-Known Member
For years, Disney created non-IP rides and they were just as big as any of the new IP driven rides. Most of them are still very popular, if not some of the most popular rides in Disney (HM, POTC, EE, BTM, RNRC etc..)
Wait, a rollercoaster themed around a band with four Grammys isn't IP-based? Under what possible definition?

In the last twenty-five years:
Non-IP: Test Track, Mission: Space, and everything in Animal Kingdom that isn't Pandora.
IP: New Fantasyland, Buzz Lightyear, Tower of Terror, Rock'n Rollercoaster, Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge, and Pandora, with Remy and the Guardians in the pipeline.

I don't know if my list is exhaustive, since I just did it off the top of my head, so I welcome any corrections.
 

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