Indiana Jones 5 Now Pushed Back to 2021

[AdventureHasAName]

If you want to believe the conspiracy theories spouted off by internet trolls with an anti-Disney agenda

It was in the trade publications over two years during filming. By some reports they kept writing and re-writing the ending because audiences continued to hate it no matter how many ways they gave her the fedora. Hell, the biggest clue to just how much of an test audience pushback there was is that ...

Spoiler: Minor Spoiler at the end of the film

the very last 30 seconds of this film is identical to the last 30 seconds of the previous film (where test audiences hated the idea of Shia LaBeouf taking over the franchise) ... it's Indy literally snatching his hat back.

It did not help that the last film Phoebe Waller Bridge had involvement with ...

Spoiler: James Bond No Time To Die Major Spoilers

she co-wrote the script and Bond dies and a snarky woman that didn't like him in the beginning of the film takes over as 007.

 

[mf1972]

It was in the trade publications over two years during filming. By some reports they kept writing and re-writing the ending because audiences continued to hate it no matter how many ways they gave her the fedora. Hell, the biggest clue to just how much of an test audience pushback there was is that ...

Spoiler: Minor Spoiler at the end of the film

the very last 30 seconds of this film is identical to the last 30 seconds of the previous film (where test audiences hated the idea of Shia LaBeouf taking over the franchise) ... it's Indy literally snatching his hat back.

It did not help that the last film Phoebe Waller Bridge had involvement with ...

Spoiler: James Bond No Time To Die Major Spoilers

she co-wrote the script and Bond dies and a snarky woman that didn't like him in the beginning of the film takes over as 007.

you made me remember how much i hated no time to die. that franchise is over as far as i’m concerned.

 

[Trauma]

You refuse to account for the social, political, and economic forces that shaped Iger and placed him where he is. Those forces have only grown since Iger took over. Unless there is AT LEAST a huge change in the board and, more generally, in the business philosophy that has governed America for 45 years or so, believing in a fundamental change in the nature of Disney leadership is largely fantasy.

I don’t want to take you out of context, so let me request a summary.

Is your argument here, at least partially, that hoping Iger gets removed is foolish because the replacement will be worse?

 

[TP2000]

If you can't trust TMZ, who can you trust?

New 'Indiana Jones' Movie Limping Out of the Box Office Gate

'Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny' seems to have its fate mapped out at the box office ... DOA.

www.tmz.com

"Harrison Ford's final rodeo as Indy doesn't seem to be drumming up much interest -- the box office numbers, so far, are looking bad ... and it might be Disney's own doing.

Disney's latest, "Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny," raked in a measly $24 mil Friday -- and that means the film is on track for just $60-$65 million through Sunday (and about $80 mil or so through Tuesday) ... which, by most accounts, is not a very good start at all."

 

[DKampy]

It was in the trade publications over two years during filming. By some reports they kept writing and re-writing the ending because audiences continued to hate it no matter how many ways they gave her the fedora. Hell, the biggest clue to just how much of an test audience pushback there was is that ...

Spoiler: Minor Spoiler at the end of the film

the very last 30 seconds of this film is identical to the last 30 seconds of the previous film (where test audiences hated the idea of Shia LaBeouf taking over the franchise) ... it's Indy literally snatching his hat back.

It did not help that the last film Phoebe Waller Bridge had involvement with ...

Spoiler: James Bond No Time To Die Major Spoilers

she co-wrote the script and Bond dies and a snarky woman that didn't like him in the beginning of the film takes over as 007.

great conspiracy theory you got there

 

[Casper Gutman]

It was in the trade publications over two years during filming. By some reports they kept writing and re-writing the ending because audiences continued to hate it no matter how many ways they gave her the fedora. Hell, the biggest clue to just how much of an test audience pushback there was is that ...

Spoiler: Minor Spoiler at the end of the film

the very last 30 seconds of this film is identical to the last 30 seconds of the previous film (where test audiences hated the idea of Shia LaBeouf taking over the franchise) ... it's Indy literally snatching his hat back.

It did not help that the last film Phoebe Waller Bridge had involvement with ...

Spoiler: James Bond No Time To Die Major Spoilers

she co-wrote the script and Bond dies and a snarky woman that didn't like him in the beginning of the film takes over as 007.

Find any mention of the ending the culture war trolls were screaming about in the trade press. Please.

It was transparent garbage pushed by a YouTube troll then and it’s the same now. The tragedy is that culture war grievances run so deep people believed it despite its transparent absurdity - they needed it to be true.

By the way, in the same thread we have reports that Disney was stupid because they believed glowing “friends and family” reviews and took the film to Cannes and that test screenings were unspeakably awful. Contradictory claims don’t matter, of corse, as long as they FEEL true and attack the right target. (The first complaint seems to be the accurate one.)

 

[TP2000]

I'm giggling here reading all these articles on Indy 5 from the past few months. Hollywood is such a smarmy, fake business. So gross. But goshdarned funny to watch them pat themselves on the back at every opportunity. Stunning and brave.

You guys, a 5 minute standing ovation at Cannes for Indy 5. You just can't buy that kind of honor and adoration. They loved it at Cannes. And that means Indy 5 is going to be a huge hit with the icky Deplorables in flyover states who buy our products.

Cannes: ‘Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny’ Debuts to Five-Minute Standing Ovation With Harrison Ford in Tears

Director James Mangold and stars Harrison Ford, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Mads Mikkelsen, Boyd Holbrook and Ethann Isidore attended the Palais premiere on Thursday evening.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Oh, wait... They do this for everything? So, like, every movie gets a 5 minute standing ovation? Why? How much champagne have they had?

Pixar’s ‘Elemental’ Charms Cannes, Closes 2023 Festival With Five-Minute Standing Ovation

Cannes Film Festival closed with the premiere of Pixar's "Elemental."

variety.com

 

[Casper Gutman]

I don’t want to take you out of context, so let me request a summary.

Is your argument here, at least partially, that hoping Iger gets removed is foolish because the replacement will be worse?

It has been likely that the replacement will be worse for a long time, since Iger is a quintessential modern entertainment executive (and not even the worst one) who merely embodies the biases and misconceptions shared by his peers. Prior to the present moment, there might have been some thin hope - not quite the 20% you mentioned, but SOME - that a fluke might see an executive more to WDW fans taste put in place. I clung to that hope, fleeting as it might be, and would have liked to see him gone. Right now, in the present environment, any new exec the board might choose will almost certainly be even MORE focused on Wall Street, less open to artistic experimentation, and more prone to slashing budgets and firing people. They might very well start a Zaslav-style fire sale, and though some fans might fantasize about WDW being sold, if that ever happens it will be the true end of WDW in a way we haven’t even contemplated.

Which current studio head would you want to replace Iger?

 

[AdventureHasAName]

great conspiracy theory you got there

With whom is Kathleen Kennedy conspiring? Everything she touches falls apart. The only guy able to make anything work in Lucasfilm was the guy who started the MCU ... and by all accounts, she had zero involvement in the Mandalorian.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Find any mention of the ending the culture war trolls were screaming about in the trade press. Please.

*Major Spoilers in the Link*

LINK

Spoiler: MAJOR SPOILER under this button

"A source at Disney Studios which owns the franchise said: ‘A handful of different endings have been shot and are being shown to test audiences. In one, Indy dies but not before handing over his bullwhip to Phoebe’s character.’"

And of course, you've had Harrison Ford and John Williams both on the record that they had to re-shoot the ending. Mangold said Williams was wrong. *shrugs shoulders*

And then there was Phoebe Waller Bridges own comments ...

Spoiler: Not really a spoiler but I'll still use the box

Phoebe Waller-Bridge, who plays Indy’s goddaughter Helena in the new film, talked to Vanity Fair about what she thinks about the last chapter. “People have this idea of when [a franchise] should end,” she says. “And I always think the interesting stuff comes when you push a little bit beyond the end. What happens after the conversation? What happens after someone gets in a cab and goes home?”

And If Helena should take the reins after this final movie, she said, “There’s no replacing Indiana Jones in any way. But I feel like the character herself—she did feel fresh on the page, and there is a sense of, is there room in the world for someone like this?” She reminds me that Indy was always a flawed, reluctant hero, a professor who’s scared of snakes and gets sore after his punch-ups. “So I do think there’s room for a slightly clumsier, bruised, limping female action star, maybe, in the future.”

EDIT:
Oh, I also forgot about the Director - who's top directing credit features ...

Spoiler: MAJOR SPOILERS for Logan

... the hero dying and his role being taken over by a young woman with a similar skill set, who doesn't get along with him at the beginning of the film.

 

[Trauma]

It has been likely that the replacement will be worse for a long time, since Iger is a quintessential modern entertainment executive (and not even the worst one) who merely embodies the biases and misconceptions shared by his peers. Prior to the present moment, there might have been some thin hope - not quite the 20% you mentioned, but SOME - that a fluke might see an executive more to WDW fans taste put in place. I clung to that hope, fleeting as it might be, and would have liked to see him gone. Right now, in the present environment, any new exec the board might choose will almost certainly be even MORE focused on Wall Street, less open to artistic experimentation, and more prone to slashing budgets and firing people. They might very well start a Zaslav-style fire sale, and though some fans might fantasize about WDW being sold, if that ever happens it will be the true end of WDW in a way we haven’t even contemplated.

Which current studio head would you want to replace Iger?

Why would I want a current studio head when Hollywood is falling apart?

I certainly don’t fantasize about Disney being broke up into pieces and be sold off, but I think that is the trajectory we are on under Iger.

The answers to the problems are extremely complicated and can’t be discussed fully on these forums.

What I do know for sure is the body of evidence
( to me ) is substantial enough to conclude that Iger is not the answer.

 

[Casper Gutman]

*Major Spoilers in the Link*

LINK

Spoiler: MAJOR SPOILER under this button

"A source at Disney Studios which owns the franchise said: ‘A handful of different endings have been shot and are being shown to test audiences. In one, Indy dies but not before handing over his bullwhip to Phoebe’s character.’"

And of course, you've had Harrison Ford and John Williams both on the record that they had to re-shoot the ending. Mangold said Williams was wrong. *shrugs shoulders*

And then there was Phoebe Waller Bridges own comments ...

Spoiler: Not really a spoiler but I'll still use the box

Phoebe Waller-Bridge, who plays Indy’s goddaughter Helena in the new film, talked to Vanity Fair about what she thinks about the last chapter. “People have this idea of when [a franchise] should end,” she says. “And I always think the interesting stuff comes when you push a little bit beyond the end. What happens after the conversation? What happens after someone gets in a cab and goes home?”

And If Helena should take the reins after this final movie, she said, “There’s no replacing Indiana Jones in any way. But I feel like the character herself—she did feel fresh on the page, and there is a sense of, is there room in the world for someone like this?” She reminds me that Indy was always a flawed, reluctant hero, a professor who’s scared of snakes and gets sore after his punch-ups. “So I do think there’s room for a slightly clumsier, bruised, limping female action star, maybe, in the future.”

What is the source of the first quotation?

And nothing in the Waller-Bridge quotation seems to lend any credibility to the rumors in question.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

What is the source of the first quotation?

You'd have to ask the writer, Caroline Graham. It's her source at Disney.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I'm giggling here reading all these articles on Indy 5 from the past few months. Hollywood is such a smarmy, fake business. So gross. But goshdarned funny to watch them pat themselves on the back at every opportunity. Stunning and brave.

You guys, a 5 minute standing ovation at Cannes for Indy 5. You just can't buy that kind of honor and adoration. They loved it at Cannes. And that means Indy 5 is going to be a huge hit with the icky Deplorables in flyover states who buy our products.

Cannes: ‘Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny’ Debuts to Five-Minute Standing Ovation With Harrison Ford in Tears

Director James Mangold and stars Harrison Ford, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Mads Mikkelsen, Boyd Holbrook and Ethann Isidore attended the Palais premiere on Thursday evening.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

Oh, wait... They do this for everything? So, like, every movie gets a 5 minute standing ovation? Why? How much champagne have they had?

Pixar’s ‘Elemental’ Charms Cannes, Closes 2023 Festival With Five-Minute Standing Ovation

Cannes Film Festival closed with the premiere of Pixar's "Elemental."

variety.com

Why are you reporting this like it's new?

At the time in this thread I posted the below quote of myself, you were already posting in this thread.

Get a new talking point.

Well... to discredit my Disney Shill cred... most Cannes films get long standing ovations. Some go on a really long time. So, six minutes is good, but not extraordinary. I think I remember reading that IJ-Dial of Disney *only* got 5 minutes and that was considered tepid.

My guess is that they're applauding movie making in general (as well as the film they just saw) and are encouraging film makers to keep producing good content more so than they are falling into flights of ecstasy brought on by that particular film.

Cannes has a history of LONG standing ovations, but what is it with the neverending clapping?

Standing ovations have become a classic Cannes cliche with perhaps the festival attendees just clapping and clapping out of peer pressure!

www.dailyo.in

 

[Casper Gutman]

You'd have to ask the writer, Caroline Graham. It's her source at Disney.

As I suspected, the source is the Daily Mail, which is not credible.

 

[TP2000]

Why are you reporting this like it's new?

At the time in this thread I posted the below quote of myself, you were already posting in this thread.

Get a new talking point.

You seem kind of grumpy today. Did your barbecue coals die out too soon or something?

You apparently posted a comment in this 33 page thread about standing ovations at Cannes back on May 28th. You might find this hard to believe, but I don't remember most stuff people post a month ago. It's likely I didn't even see/read your Cannes post on May 28th. If you are unhappy with me for not remembering all of your posts, or are not satisfied with the number of shifts I have been putting in here on this thread, I can go get my manager for you.

You just wait right there... Don't go anywhere. My manager is on the way.

For those of us that still have a funny bone... Indy 5 and Elemental both got 5 minute standing ovations at Cannes. So, there's that.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

As I suspected, the source is the Daily Mail, which is not credible.

This source ...

"One source who has seen an early cut of the film said: “There’s everything you’d want; Nazis, fighting on top of a moving train, a chase sequence through a parade and Indy using his bullwhip to fight bad guys with guns. The film is being shown to test audiences. No one knows which ending they will use.’"

... managed to get everything correct, except of course that he said there was test screenings taking place at the time of the article in November 2022 - which can't possibly be true because Mangold was swearing up and down in December 2022 that there had been no test screenings of the film yet.

 

[Tha Realest]

Also, John Williams. Of course, he’ll be dismissed as basically a more musically gifted Grace Randolph after this:

A New Indiana Jones 5 Ending Is Being Filmed, Says John Williams

John Williams is retiring after Indiana Jones 5.

screenrant.com

 

[BlakeW39]

It has been likely that the replacement will be worse for a long time, since Iger is a quintessential modern entertainment executive (and not even the worst one) who merely embodies the biases and misconceptions shared by his peers. Prior to the present moment, there might have been some thin hope - not quite the 20% you mentioned, but SOME - that a fluke might see an executive more to WDW fans taste put in place. I clung to that hope, fleeting as it might be, and would have liked to see him gone. Right now, in the present environment, any new exec the board might choose will almost certainly be even MORE focused on Wall Street, less open to artistic experimentation, and more prone to slashing budgets and firing people. They might very well start a Zaslav-style fire sale, and though some fans might fantasize about WDW being sold, if that ever happens it will be the true end of WDW in a way we haven’t even contemplated.

Which current studio head would you want to replace Iger?

I've been saying for quite some time now that Iger leaving isn't gonna fix like 99% of Disney's current problems. Especially in terms of the parks. The problems with modern era Disney and Iger himself are really just problems with the entertainment industry as a whole. The only way you see improvement there are broad structural stranges to the market itself. I pray and hope that the current storm on the horizon— in combination with a rapidly changing world —is enough to do that. But it's all sort of a pipe dream. If the entertainment industry or Disney sees significant changes, the parks will be the very last industry to improve. I can easily see major shakeups to the company happening over the next decade and the parks still being treated pretty similarly to how they are now.

 

[Disney Irish]

The CG looks silly…are you disputing that?

I’m not decided either way. But do iger/kennedy deserve my business? No they do not…

Get me the rogue squadron movie and announce Rian Johnson is not allowed in a Disney facility again. Then faith is rewarded.

…you probably think I’m joking, right?

If you're basing the CG just on the trailers, you're missing out. I will say there are some spots where the CG is wonky, but overall its passable and never took me out of the story.

And you know that they will never say Rian isn't allowed back, especially in public, rather they just won't mention him again.
As for Rogue Squadron, my understanding is its still happening in one form or another, but is pushed off.

And no I don't think you're joking. But I do think you'll like this movie overall, and it should be seen in theaters. But whether you wait until it comes out on digital at the end of the year, or you go see it in theaters, you should watch it.