Imagination! Being Replaced w. Dr. Doof?

[Fairybuzz]

I was around when they were all new...and were great. That afternoon lineup was wonderful. My little brother was Darkwing Duck for Halloween one year - great home-made costume (thanks mom!).

That said, I don't want my EPCOT rides to carry theming from any of them...

Moms are great aren't they?

I was born in 88 so they are kinda the first things I watched around 91-4 when I could figure out plots. My fav show was Talespin and my fav movies were Cinderella, Little Mermaid and Peter Pan (tie).

Yeah I agree that they have no place in a supposedly timeless park. I don't think that any cartoons should be there. A cartoon severely limits what they can do. It also is a bit of a cop out so they don't have to think of new things. Even cartoons I like. Plus when they redid the seas, turtle talk was great but the ride was kinda Forced into a space that it didn't really fit. I'm not exactly certain what's going on for most of that ride and I can't take my sis on it anyway cuz she's scared of the angler and bruce. Seabase alpha is now seabase generica with nemo painted on some structures its actually really silly looking. I was recently at Hershey Park and they just did a rehaul of Chocolate World's 3-D show and gave it a combination 4-D show/Turtle talk kinda thing where what you say changes the story and every show is different. And I thought to myself, WOW! Hershey park outdid Disney for once! While Turtle Talk is just a chat show, this was a pretty intricate interactive show and a way to pump freshness into a 3-D show in a world where 3-D is available at any old theater. I wonder when Disney started to lag behind.

It's like I mentioned many times, they used to set the trends, take risks, do new things that they werent certain would establish fan bases. The 98 Imagination ride is HORRRIBLE and a knife in the back of everyone who loved that ride before, but even that was a risk. I think that was the breaking point, they took a risk they failed miserably and were afraid to step a toe in the water anymore and went a play it safe road. Meanwhile in places like TDL and the case of mystic manor, they still create original chars and plots and look what happens? people here give endless praise and wonder why they don't do this in the states!

They need to take that creativity and pump it into epcot again. DHS is kinda stuck in the it has to be a movie or show to go here mode, so why not put all this p and f nemo etc stuff over there. I used to kinda think ok theres magic kingdom then the other parks seem to represent a piece of it. Epcot was Tomorrowland, Animal Kingdom was Adventureland, MGM/DHS was a little of fantasy land in that it held fictional chars and a bit of main street because of the old time atmosphere. So if you look at it that way thats a perfect place to dump char stuff in. Unlike Lights actions motors, which has nothing at all to do with disney, related properties, or anything really.

 

[Camera1950s]

In 1982 JITI was the best ride in the park! That was along with other great rides. Now it is the worst ride in the park. I love EPCOT and I can see how JITI still has small kid appeal. I believe it went from best to worst simply because of cost to operate. Like 20K in MK. The ride itself was unreliable and it must have been expensive to AC the upstairs play floor with all that glass in Florida. The sponsor was Kodak who started the digital revolution but (unlike Fuji) failed to cash in on it. So they could not help. So they cheapened the ride and killed the upstairs while spending huge money on the worst 3D movie. I would love to see good done here so here is what I suggest:

1. YES! do the P & F! It is recognizable with Kids and it is Disney.
2. Do it right by gutting the inside to use the building better. Do not just slap paint on it!
3. Replace the current movie with a P&F 3D. Good potential here. Include a preshow like in 82.
4. Re open the M&G, You have the costumes already!
5. Of course redo the playground. Very good potential here too.

I would suggest using the upstairs but I have little hope for that. I do not think they could even tint the glass due to the complex angles. The only thing they could do is paint it or remove it. My fear is that they will attempt this on the cheap and this iteration will just as bad as the last. As for Figment, I like the character but he is lost without Dreamfinder. So they should do this in a last effort to revive the pavilion. If not then just turn the whole thing into a low cost play ground and be done with it.

 

[Rose&Crowner]

The other thread was closed. What happened he concept art? The image seems to not load over there....

Grand Admiral Thrawn had his Noghri's come out and take down anything that he found "Stupid." Which included the concept art "We" think, as it didn't fit "his" theme park standards. Oh, and he was whiny.

 

[GoofGoof]

But Disney does not weave IP into attractions like they used to, when Splash Mountain opened. Look at the name. Nothing in the Splash Mountain name even mentions the characters, the movie, or anything regarding the movie. It isn't "Song of the South: The Ride." The original Journey Into Imagination wasn't titled "Dreamfinder and Figment's Imagination Adventure" or anything like that. I don't have faith in Disney in the present age. Look at The Living Seas. They didn't even leave the name alone. They changed it to "The Seas with Nemo and Friends." Screw up the attraction, then jam the fact that it includes IP characters down our throats. The same with Ellen's Energy Adventure. Change the attraction, add the character name to the title, and assume that by doing so you don't need to actually invest in maintaining quality, engaging attractions, because the character tie-in will take care of all of it. Character tie-ins seem to have become a way for TDO to avoid creating high quality attractions with good stories.

Splash is a high quality, engaging, and fun attraction, and the purpose of it is NOT to sell DVDs. The purpose of things like The Seas with Nemo IS to tie to an IP to sell products, as would "Imagination with Phineas and Ferb." It isn't creative and it simply isn't a good fit for EPCOT - and with the TDO track record it would likely result in a sub-par attraction. <- those are two separate issues: sub-par attraction, and no good in EPCOT.

It just feels too small of a scope for something that should be grand. Sort of the way I feel about Ellen in Energy. Not terrible, but feels more like an after-school special on energy, instead of a big grand mind-blowing exploration of energy...which is what EPCOT should do. Imagination with P+F would feel like an after-school special on being creative...which isn't grand and isn't what EPCOT should be about. I want things that make me say "wow." P+F, Nemo, Ellen, etc, don't make me say "wow." They make me want to avoid small-minded attractions, and their respective intellectual properties in general.

Dreamfinder and Figment, in their original incarnation, somehow managed to grab a grand scope while being engaging charters - something we haven't seen from Disney in a long time.

IMHO, anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I would prefer a complete original refurb with Figment and Dreamfinder too. I just think they could also do something pretty solid with P&F. As you stated, Splash is a high quality, engaging and fun attraction and the characters are sorta secondary. No reason they can't do this with Imagination. If the ride was truly high quality and truly state of the art there's no reason P&F would somehow lessen it. With Nemo at the Seas it's really poor execution. Sure Nemo is a fish and it's basically a big aquarium so I guess it fits thematically, but its a bit of a stretch. They basically just slapped Nemo in there but didn't develop much of a story why. If they just slap P&F into the pre-show or ride without doing much else it will be a complete fail. A high tech ride about imagination featuring a quality story about 2 kids with huge imaginations makes sense to me. I would use the upstairs space to feature a bunch of Doofs inators that people could try out on their own. The possibilities are pretty endless.

 

[Fairybuzz]

I think P and F Ride at this point is pretty much out from what I'm reading. Thankfully. To me that'd be just as good as leaving it empty because A: I don't watch the show so I wouldn't ride it and B: more importantly it wont last more than 10 years then they probably will be stuck with an empty building they messed up with kooky signage and loudness that flows like a stone in a river. Or the ride will slowly get less of a line as the Phineas generation grows up and moves on, and the next generation of kids wonder why there isn't a Wacky Marky Mole Man and Stacy ride or whatever the next craze will be. I wonder how many people here under the age of 17 know who darkwing duck is? Song of the South has staying power because it's a cult classic, It has music that people remember well, Its a forbidden fruit, and lastly Zip A Dee Doo Dah sorta became the "It's A Small World" song of the early 90s. (just watch disneyland fun and see their goofy as hey version of it!). Gadget stays because it really doesnt derive much from the show its just a rollercoaster and no one really cares if kiddie coasters are themed they just put extremely young kids on them to get them into coasters and because like me they want to see if they are too terrified or nauseous. (and the kind of kids that may eventually wonder why disney doesnt have a super x-treme 90 loop stand up flying hanging coaster thats over 500 feet tall).

However that all becomes a moot point when I realize that even if it was a show I watched It would still be a bad idea in my mind. Even a tron ride is bad in my mind. Imho you should't theme a pavillion on one show, its extremely limiting. If the land became a Lion King Pavilion we wouldn't have Soarin'. Energy is a Ellen Degenerous pavillion and look what happened! People keep saying its so 90s! The Nemo pavillion is dreadful. (Imo about seas is they should at this point demolish the omnimover entirely and create a new next gen attraction like when they first thought up Soarin', since obviously they have no idea what to do with it so they just stuck those 2-D plasma screens there, a gimmick that existed in a certain form when rides like If you had wings were made) and They put tron like stuff in TT and EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING (except me cuz I realize its not torn and it feels more epcoty).

So if you look at everyone's least favorite epcot attractions it's those that feature some pop culture thing in them to rake in customers. Majority of people don't like seas, People constantly complain about ellen, People complain about HISTA and EO, More people every day seem to appear who didn't like the mexican pavillion upgrade (talk about rushed!) And then there's Imagination! Yes! Imagination itself ties into the world of disney's 90s inventor movies! and brings in a celebrity as well! So it appears to me that making another tie in ride shouldn't be much different unless they totally break the bank on it and make it so immersive your body itself feels like its turning cartoon! Not to mention find a way to make it fit into the theme unlike nemo, of the future world, without it just having some vague excuse connection, (cough nemo again) to the old pavillion. Oh and they may want to entirely demolish the building and totally rebuild it costing tons more cash. Oh and don't forget they need to make it draw non-fans of the show by putting something unique in there and not just having you roll past some stupid plasma screens and cheap AAs because people keep complaining about Fantasyland Darkrides not being updated and saying they can just watch the movies.

or they could just dust off some old scenery put in a few enhancements and bring back the dreamfinder and get hoards of nostalgic visitors and kids who look at the old ride on youtube and wish they rode it flocking over.

The choice seems more clear to me that way. Regardless of how popular the tie in is, people won't like it if it doesn't impress them. And people are hard to impress these days.

My question to everyone is though, WHERE DID THE IDEA COME FROM THAT THE RIDE IS GOING TO CHANGE TO PANDF? was it extrapolation from the moving of the world showcase thing? Other than here I don't really see anyone talking about it being more than a vague rumor. What I seriously think in my mind is that they actually have no idea what they're gonna do with the ride and their all tossing random ideas out and this one proposal happened to leak online. But hey, thats the internet for ya! I'll admit I can't shut my mouth lol. and everyone has their opinions. Because of all this discussion it blows up in scale and then people start to believe it.

Also I can't help but feel the urge to believe that someone up there is reading these forums and looking to see which idea is more popular. I wonder if subconsciously at least anyone else feels like this? However foolish it is lol. Nah im just silly

 

[aladdin2007]

I think P and F Ride at this point is pretty much out from what I'm reading. Thankfully. To me that'd be just as good as leaving it empty because A: I don't watch the show so I wouldn't ride it and B: more importantly it wont last more than 10 years then they probably will be stuck with an empty building they messed up with kooky signage and loudness that flows like a stone in a river. Or the ride will slowly get less of a line as the Phineas generation grows up and moves on, and the next generation of kids wonder why there isn't a Wacky Marky Mole Man and Stacy ride or whatever the next craze will be. I wonder how many people here under the age of 17 know who darkwing duck is? Song of the South has staying power because it's a cult classic, It has music that people remember well, Its a forbidden fruit, and lastly Zip A Dee Doo Dah sorta became the "It's A Small World" song of the early 90s. (just watch disneyland fun and see their goofy as hey version of it!). Gadget stays because it really doesnt derive much from the show its just a rollercoaster and no one really cares if kiddie coasters are themed they just put extremely young kids on them to get them into coasters and because like me they want to see if they are too terrified or nauseous. (and the kind of kids that may eventually wonder why disney doesnt have a super x-treme 90 loop stand up flying hanging coaster thats over 500 feet tall).

However that all becomes a moot point when I realize that even if it was a show I watched It would still be a bad idea in my mind. Even a tron ride is bad in my mind. Imho you should't theme a pavillion on one show, its extremely limiting. If the land became a Lion King Pavilion we wouldn't have Soarin'. Energy is a Ellen Degenerous pavillion and look what happened! People keep saying its so 90s! The Nemo pavillion is dreadful. (Imo about seas is they should at this point demolish the omnimover entirely and create a new next gen attraction like when they first thought up Soarin', since obviously they have no idea what to do with it so they just stuck those 2-D plasma screens there, a gimmick that existed in a certain form when rides like If you had wings were made) and They put tron like stuff in TT and EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING (except me cuz I realize its not torn and it feels more epcoty).

So if you look at everyone's least favorite epcot attractions it's those that feature some pop culture thing in them to rake in customers. Majority of people don't like seas, People constantly complain about ellen, People complain about HISTA and EO, More people every day seem to appear who didn't like the mexican pavillion upgrade (talk about rushed!) And then there's Imagination! Yes! Imagination itself ties into the world of disney's 90s inventor movies! and brings in a celebrity as well! So it appears to me that making another tie in ride shouldn't be much different unless they totally break the bank on it and make it so immersive your body itself feels like its turning cartoon! Not to mention find a way to make it fit into the theme unlike nemo, of the future world, without it just having some vague excuse connection, (cough nemo again) to the old pavillion. Oh and they may want to entirely demolish the building and totally rebuild it costing tons more cash. Oh and don't forget they need to make it draw non-fans of the show by putting something unique in there and not just having you roll past some stupid plasma screens and cheap AAs because people keep complaining about Fantasyland Darkrides not being updated and saying they can just watch the movies.

or they could just dust off some old scenery put in a few enhancements and bring back the dreamfinder and get hoards of nostalgic visitors and kids who look at the old ride on youtube and wish they rode it flocking over.

The choice seems more clear to me that way. Regardless of how popular the tie in is, people won't like it if it doesn't impress them. And people are hard to impress these days.

My question to everyone is though, WHERE DID THE IDEA COME FROM THAT THE RIDE IS GOING TO CHANGE TO PANDF? was it extrapolation from the moving of the world showcase thing? Other than here I don't really see anyone talking about it being more than a vague rumor. What I seriously think in my mind is that they actually have no idea what they're gonna do with the ride and their all tossing random ideas out and this one proposal happened to leak online. But hey, thats the internet for ya! I'll admit I can't shut my mouth lol. and everyone has their opinions. Because of all this discussion it blows up in scale and then people start to believe it.

Not sure how that got started, I guess from that piece of art that popped up on the internet a few months back. It was verified that Baxter was on board as some sort of consultant, which is better than nothing but I cant see him being involved with anything to do with P&F. Where will be in 5 years when that has run its course? Another outdated no one cares attraction like american idol..... But from other threads it sounds like its just going to close and remain closed while they decide what to do, saving money on operating costs, but no fast plan to start anything right away. If thats the case, I would expect a really long wait, we know what Disneys definition of "temporary" means.

 

[Fairybuzz]

Not sure how that got started, I guess from that piece of art that popped up on the internet a few months back. It was verified that Baxter was on board as some sort of consultant, which is better than nothing. But from other threads it sounds like its just going to close and remain closed while they decide what to do, saving money on operating costs but no fast plan to start anything right away. If thats the case, I would expect a really long wait, we know what Disneys definition of "temporary" means.

Right.

Why would I expect anything? Its not like they've even done anything with Wonders. (sniff sniff).

 

[GoofGoof]

I think P and F Ride at this point is pretty much out from what I'm reading. Thankfully. To me that'd be just as good as leaving it empty because A: I don't watch the show so I wouldn't ride it

I agree with you its unlikely to happen. Playing devil's advocate a little here, but if you don't watch the show then you don't really know the characters so how is that any different than the imagineers re-inventing this ride with 2 fictitious kids named Bill and Ted who are your host for the ride? I guess my point is if the ride is really good does the fact that it contains 2 characters from a show you don't watch make it an automatic skip?

As far as where it came from, this thread started a while back based on an Internet rumor. Someone created a thread last night which dredged up some old art work showing P&F shaped bushes in front of Imagination. That thread got ugly fast and never recovered. It got shut down this morning and Steve directed people here to post about this rumor. Thus a dead thread was once again revived.

 

[aladdin2007]

Right.

Why would I expect anything? Its not like they've even done anything with Wonders. (sniff sniff).

Know the feeling, but at the same time I dont think Epcot can afford another blunder or shut down area, its time for something new and well done. Adding bars and starbucks is only going to get them so far.

 

[Fairybuzz]

I agree with you its unlikely to happen. Playing devil's advocate a little here, but if you don't watch the show then you don't really know the characters so how is that any different than the imagineers re-inventing this ride with 2 fictitious kids named Bill and Ted who are your host for the ride? I guess my point is if the ride is really good does the fact that it contains 2 characters from a show you don't watch make it an automatic skip?

As far as where it came from, this thread started a while back based on an Internet rumor. Someone created a thread last night which dredged up some old art work showing P&F shaped bushes in front of Imagination. That thread got ugly fast and never recovered. It got shut down this morning and Steve directed people here to post about this rumor. Thus a dead thread was once again revived.

Oh I know I posted here long before, but I totally forgot where it all began. It's extrapolation for sure at this point.

Sorry this part is long:

My point is is that Figment was invented during the ride. Literally. You know him from creation. The Dreamfinder follows you to tell you who they are. Usually when disney makes rides based on properties it assumes you know them and skips any kind of intro. Case in point, if you didn't know about peter pan the ride would actually seem really random. Some girl sits in her room follows a shadow into the sky? Then you go from london magically to a tropical paradise? with native americans?! and pirates? and...mermaids? I don't believe it! (mr. Baxter check the air pressure! lol jk omg mr. baxter tony baxter I just got that :O!!!!!) Then they fight and steal a ship? to sail home...in the air????? what??? However unlike P and F Peter pan is not only a classic movie but well established lore in fairytale culture. (I've seen Alice in Wonderland, I read the original book, and I still have no clue whats going on in that ride btw. and the snow white ride in DL too with its abrupt ending) Splash mountain has its music and Brer rabbit tells you his story too. Brer Frog tells you about Brer rabbit, You see the shadow telling you a bit of an intro, AND Brer rabbit blurts out everything he's gonna do before he does it lol. Same with Brer Fox. But that ride building you may not realize it but ITS HUGE! theres room to tell it all. Mr. Toad is a strange case. Its a classic ride, that people associate with disney and its been there long enough for people to grow attatched to it. Also oddly enough there are no animatronics in it just some mobile scenery and some slightly moving statues. It can be argued that Toad is a lot more like a classic darkride. The ride itself is the focus. Even if you don't know toad, you can still realize the ride is about your driving like a madman and killing yourself and going to heck (kinda dark if you think about it like that lol). Most of that has nothing to do with toad other than his love of motor cars and the fact that he's a total eccentric nut with a Gatsby level lifestyle. People remember the train crash, the devil, the animals and the crazy zig zags but you really could put that on a ride without toad and it'd be a pretty solid darkride.

But that was acceptable for a ride built back then. If they made an animatronicless ride with just some cutouts and painted walls and some crazy track (which they never really do anymore everythings omnimovers now) EVERYONE WOULD COMPLAIN! in any event its not there now so it didn't last the test of time. (at least they didn't think so but that was a stupid decision for an old rant)

For P and F to appeal to non fans of the show it'd need to
A: Introduce the characters. I'll admit for a long time I had no idea what the show was about. If the ride started in the middle of action at all, even with a preshow It'd still be hard to piece together. To this day and age I'm still not clear on Doof's role in the show.

B: WOW factor! Where as Dreamfinder could rake in customers if he was his wonderful old self again (other than kids ruined by a society which teaches us that old people are creepy when their nice to you), A P and F ride would need to be so good that non fans will want to see it. Case in point Cars Land. I am not a huge fan of the movie, I didn't get all the redneck humor personally being a city girl, and there weren't enough female lead character cars...car characters....w/e to keep it relatable to me. But Carsland not only blew me away, but made me actually rewatch the movie and appreciate it more. Carsland is imagineering at its finest. Its not just some vague stuff stuffed into an inappropriately designed building that makes it obvious it was changed. Everything looks like it should. The shops are all represented, the powerlines, the length of every third flashing light everything is so precise and detailed that it feels like you're in it. And the ride! oh my goodness, the scenes the cars they look just like in the movie with full range of movement full scales. But look at the price tag! Now back to epcot. I wonder how many people got excited over a finding nemo ride? Well with carsland and all you'd expect something else immersive to come out of a pixar ride. The budget wasn't right, their hearts weren't into it, they didn't really know what they were doing, and now we have a ride that does everything I've mentioned wrong.

A: It has no introduction and no coherent plot. I have no clue whats happening on that ride. I've seen the movie. So wait they just lost nemo again and now their floating through every place from before theres something about the shark something with the school teacher singing but you can't really make it out cuz its so noisey with all the chars talking at once gives me a headache

B: Theres nothing advanced about it. I could reproduce everything about this ride that makes it nemo related with a television set and some re editing of the movie. In addition: The quality of the film is really bad. Not the definition, the actual models themselves. Bruce's mouth just doesn't look right at all! I've seen fins go through each other, and sometimes I just can't make out whats happening at all (see A).

C: On top of that the vehicles make no sense. Unlike toad above, the ride can't makeup for the poor show because its old, slow, and their clams that are moving for no reason. This would be ok if the show was better but as it is the shell remake of the vehicles is the only interesting part of the ride!

D: If I hadn't seen and enjoyed nemo I'd hope the fish all got eaten at the end. The ride takes loveable chars and makes them annoying non-sensical brain dead and disjointed. It seems the entire ocean is obsessed with making sure nemo doesn't get lost again. and then they fall for all the same things as in the movie. uhhh... ok

E: the song is terrible. I can't even make out a single word of it either. and one day It got stuck in my head and made me get a terrible headache.

To me thats what happens when epcot remakes a ride to drop in characters.

Case in point the same thing has been done to Mexico.

and In DCA:
Goofy's Sky School-less theming than a six flags ride. (Actually a wild mouse with almost the same layout called The Dark Knight, has a preshow, a ride building, effects, sounds, clowns that jump out at you, a truck that "explodes" some awesome queue effects, and maps newspapers and guides to gotham services creating a fully immersive expirience. Heck even Gotham Gauntlet is better themed!!)
Mickey's fun wheel-really what was the point of changing it at all?
Silly Symphonies-Whats up with this thing anyway theme parks all over are getting rid of similar rides for being old had and un appealing.

So i just don't expect this one to be any different. If the ride was mind blowing and charming, and totally high tech (not "high tech" like it is now, high tech as in getting rid of all the crud in there and totally doing something no one's ever seen before, or make such good replicas and effects from the show that its hard to believe you didn't fall into it (like with RSR), then yeah I wouldn't mind as much. But It would need to bring back that old feel of magic around every corner for you to discover, to do that. It can't just be a darkride. Imagination in the 80s and early 90s was unique, with its turn table (I never figured it out until this year how they did that infact I didn't even know it was turning) and its amazing image works. This was all topped off with a beautiful and memorable building open to the sky. *puts hands together and sighs*. Then they closed it all up and made it so dark in there, and gave it the same feel I get in the stockroom of a Supermarket. Not to mention those things in the audio section looked suspiciously like the horizons sound controls. hmmm. (I wondered if they just ripped out a wall and exposed the backstage audio systems from the old ride or worse dumped horizons ones there.)

So any who, lol sorry I got a bit sidetracked. The Point is that It would have to
1. Not look like a backstage area
2. keep the building or make one just as pretty (None of this black box with some statues or swirly things on the front stuff)
3. be mind boggling, make people once again say "How did they do that?"
for me to ride it. Because if they can drive me away from a ride based on a movie I liked imagine how bad this could go over. (I like Ellen too btw. but the ride is kinda corny).

And I just don't see them wanting to break the bank over this. Not with avatar and star wars and all these grand schemes in their heads. What worries me is that everything I've just mentioned probably won't even enter their heads, and they'll assume the seas with nemo band-aid somehow was "good enough" and we'll all wind up with Phinneas and Ferb Invents an upside-down house. with the rest of the ride composed of plasma screens as if we got teleported back to the 70s in terms of ride tech but not imagination.

But like we said Its probably not going to go this way, and people just see the title of this thread "Imagination being replaced by Dr. Doof" and ignore the ? and then see people debating and then rush in to post their opinions. (which is fine by me its just that this topic should probably die or be replaced by an all purpose Imagination update thread and get people to shake the PandFination! ride out of their heads.

 

[Fairybuzz]

Know the feeling, but at the same time I dont think Epcot can afford another blunder or shut down area, its time for something new and well done. Adding bars and starbucks is only going to get them so far.

amen to that.

People are gonna like rebel if they do one more stupid thing lol. It's time for EPCOT UNDERGROUND

 

[GoofGoof]

Oh I know I posted here long before, but I totally forgot where it all began. It's extrapolation for sure at this point.

Sorry this part is long:

My point is is that Figment was invented during the ride. Literally. You know him from creation. The Dreamfinder follows you to tell you who they are. Usually when disney makes rides based on properties it assumes you know them and skips any kind of intro. Case in point, if you didn't know about peter pan the ride would actually seem really random. Some girl sits in her room follows a shadow into the sky? Then you go from london magically to a tropical paradise? with native americans?! and pirates? and...mermaids? I don't believe it! (mr. Baxter check the air pressure! lol jk omg mr. baxter tony baxter I just got that :O!!!!!) Then they fight and steal a ship? to sail home...in the air????? what??? However unlike P and F Peter pan is not only a classic movie but well established lore in fairytale culture. (I've seen Alice in Wonderland, I read the original book, and I still have no clue whats going on in that ride btw. and the snow white ride in DL too with its abrupt ending) Splash mountain has its music and Brer rabbit tells you his story too. Brer Frog tells you about Brer rabbit, You see the shadow telling you a bit of an intro, AND Brer rabbit blurts out everything he's gonna do before he does it lol. Same with Brer Fox. But that ride building you may not realize it but ITS HUGE! theres room to tell it all. Mr. Toad is a strange case. Its a classic ride, that people associate with disney and its been there long enough for people to grow attatched to it. Also oddly enough there are no animatronics in it just some mobile scenery and some slightly moving statues. It can be argued that Toad is a lot more like a classic darkride. The ride itself is the focus. Even if you don't know toad, you can still realize the ride is about your driving like a madman and killing yourself and going to heck (kinda dark if you think about it like that lol). Most of that has nothing to do with toad other than his love of motor cars and the fact that he's a total eccentric nut with a Gatsby level lifestyle. People remember the train crash, the devil, the animals and the crazy zig zags but you really could put that on a ride without toad and it'd be a pretty solid darkride.

But that was acceptable for a ride built back then. If they made an animatronicless ride with just some cutouts and painted walls and some crazy track (which they never really do anymore everythings omnimovers now) EVERYONE WOULD COMPLAIN! in any event its not there now so it didn't last the test of time. (at least they didn't think so but that was a stupid decision for an old rant)

For P and F to appeal to non fans of the show it'd need to
A: Introduce the characters. I'll admit for a long time I had no idea what the show was about. If the ride started in the middle of action at all, even with a preshow It'd still be hard to piece together. To this day and age I'm still not clear on Doof's role in the show.

B: WOW factor! Where as Dreamfinder could rake in customers if he was his wonderful old self again (other than kids ruined by a society which teaches us that old people are creepy when their nice to you), A P and F ride would need to be so good that non fans will want to see it. Case in point Cars Land. I am not a huge fan of the movie, I didn't get all the redneck humor personally being a city girl, and there weren't enough female lead character cars...car characters....w/e to keep it relatable to me. But Carsland not only blew me away, but made me actually rewatch the movie and appreciate it more. Carsland is imagineering at its finest. Its not just some vague stuff stuffed into an inappropriately designed building that makes it obvious it was changed. Everything looks like it should. The shops are all represented, the powerlines, the length of every third flashing light everything is so precise and detailed that it feels like you're in it. And the ride! oh my goodness, the scenes the cars they look just like in the movie with full range of movement full scales. But look at the price tag! Now back to epcot. I wonder how many people got excited over a finding nemo ride? Well with carsland and all you'd expect something else immersive to come out of a pixar ride. The budget wasn't right, their hearts weren't into it, they didn't really know what they were doing, and now we have a ride that does everything I've mentioned wrong.

A: It has no introduction and no coherent plot. I have no clue whats happening on that ride. I've seen the movie. So wait they just lost nemo again and now their floating through every place from before theres something about the shark something with the school teacher singing but you can't really make it out cuz its so noisey with all the chars talking at once gives me a headache

B: Theres nothing advanced about it. I could reproduce everything about this ride that makes it nemo related with a television set and some re editing of the movie. In addition: The quality of the film is really bad. Not the definition, the actual models themselves. Bruce's mouth just doesn't look right at all! I've seen fins go through each other, and sometimes I just can't make out whats happening at all (see A).

C: On top of that the vehicles make no sense. Unlike toad above, the ride can't makeup for the poor show because its old, slow, and their clams that are moving for no reason. This would be ok if the show was better but as it is the shell remake of the vehicles is the only interesting part of the ride!

D: If I hadn't seen and enjoyed nemo I'd hope the fish all got eaten at the end. The ride takes loveable chars and makes them annoying non-sensical brain dead and disjointed. It seems the entire ocean is obsessed with making sure nemo doesn't get lost again. and then they fall for all the same things as in the movie. uhhh... ok

E: the song is terrible. I can't even make out a single word of it either. and one day It got stuck in my head and made me get a terrible headache.

To me thats what happens when epcot remakes a ride to drop in characters.

Case in point the same thing has been done to Mexico.

and In DCA:
Goofy's Sky School-less theming than a six flags ride. (Actually a wild mouse with almost the same layout called The Dark Knight, has a preshow, a ride building, effects, sounds, clowns that jump out at you, a truck that "explodes" some awesome queue effects, and maps newspapers and guides to gotham services creating a fully immersive expirience. Heck even Gotham Gauntlet is better themed!!)
Mickey's fun wheel-really what was the point of changing it at all?
Silly Symphonies-Whats up with this thing anyway theme parks all over are getting rid of similar rides for being old had and un appealing.

So i just don't expect this one to be any different. If the ride was mind blowing and charming, and totally high tech (not "high tech" like it is now, high tech as in getting rid of all the crud in there and totally doing something no one's ever seen before, or make such good replicas and effects from the show that its hard to believe you didn't fall into it (like with RSR), then yeah I wouldn't mind as much. But It would need to bring back that old feel of magic around every corner for you to discover, to do that. It can't just be a darkride. Imagination in the 80s and early 90s was unique, with its turn table (I never figured it out until this year how they did that infact I didn't even know it was turning) and its amazing image works. This was all topped off with a beautiful and memorable building open to the sky. *puts hands together and sighs*. Then they closed it all up and made it so dark in there, and gave it the same feel I get in the stockroom of a Supermarket. Not to mention those things in the audio section looked suspiciously like the horizons sound controls. hmmm. (I wondered if they just ripped out a wall and exposed the backstage audio systems from the old ride or worse dumped horizons ones there.)

So any who, lol sorry I got a bit sidetracked. The Point is that It would have to
1. Not look like a backstage area
2. keep the building or make one just as pretty (None of this black box with some statues or swirly things on the front stuff)
3. be mind boggling, make people once again say "How did they do that?"
for me to ride it. Because if they can drive me away from a ride based on a movie I liked imagine how bad this could go over. (I like Ellen too btw. but the ride is kinda corny).

And I just don't see them wanting to break the bank over this. Not with avatar and star wars and all these grand schemes in their heads. What worries me is that everything I've just mentioned probably won't even enter their heads, and they'll assume the seas with nemo band-aid somehow was "good enough" and we'll all wind up with Phinneas and Ferb Invents an upside-down house. with the rest of the ride composed of plasma screens as if we got teleported back to the 70s in terms of ride tech but not imagination.

But like we said Its probably not going to go this way, and people just see the title of this thread "Imagination being replaced by Dr. Doof" and ignore the ? and then see people debating and then rush in to post their opinions. (which is fine by me its just that this topic should probably die or be replaced by an all purpose Imagination update thread and get people to shake the PandFination! ride out of their heads.

You get the honor of the longest post that I actually read from beginning to end. I agree with most of what you are saying. Your point about Carsland is exactly what I was trying to say. If the ride blows you away you won't care what characters it's based on. I also agree with the point on Nemo. Adding P&F just to put characters in would be a total fail like Nemo in the Seas. I think they could produce a pretty short pre-show video to introduce the characters and set the plot or use part of the ride for that.

I agree this makeover is unlikely to happen anyway but they could combine the trackless ride system with AAs and screen effects similar to Mystic Manor that would make this ride both cutting edge and exciting to ride.

 

[Admiral01]

I think part of the magic was that you, the guest, got to explore imagination with Figmet, who was also exploring. You see Figment's "birth" and you explore along with this new, curious creation. New Figment is an annoyance, not an explorer like the original. I don't want Figment to take me on a tour of imagination, I want him to want to learn and seek out new things with me, together. From 82 to 98, we learned about imagination along with Figment. Now, he is the one who is trying to teach...trying...and the whole concept fails miserably.

So, Disney, go find old recordings of Billy Barty's voice, cut it together, and fix that attraction.

If only we had gotten WestCot out in Anaheim, and received clones of JII, Horizons, The Living Seas, and the rest...we wouldn't need to worry about TDO's abhorrent treatment of EPCOT, because we would have TDA taking good care of their versions.

 

[Fairybuzz]

You get the honor of the longest post that I actually read from beginning to end. I agree with most of what you are saying. Your point about Carsland is exactly what I was trying to say. If the ride blows you away you won't care what characters it's based on. I also agree with the point on Nemo. Adding P&F just to put characters in would be a total fail like Nemo in the Seas. I think they could produce a pretty short pre-show video to introduce the characters and set the plot or use part of the ride for that.

I agree this makeover is unlikely to happen anyway but they could combine the trackless ride system with AAs and screen effects similar to Mystic Manor that would make this ride both cutting edge and exciting to ride.

Yes exactly! you got my point perfectly (I really should start a theme park blog lol). Its that old fashioned Disney touch that's missing. paradise piers western portion aside, DCA's finally getting it right. So there is hope for epcot. No one thought in 2003 when i first followed theme park blogs that DCA was disney quality either but knew with tlc it could be. Epcot reveresed for a while but If they could just understand what TDA did right they may be able to revive it. But this is kind of a threshold period. They can continue doing what they're doing and continue wondering why people don't like it or they can actually throw some money into individual attractions before making these crazy avatar plans and such.

I think part of the magic was that you, the guest, got to explore imagination with Figmet, who was also exploring. You see Figment's "birth" and you explore along with this new, curious creation. New Figment is an annoyance, not an explorer like the original. I don't want Figment to take me on a tour of imagination, I want him to want to learn and seek out new things with me, together. From 82 to 98, we learned about imagination along with Figment. Now, he is the one who is trying to teach...trying...and the whole concept fails miserably.

So, Disney, go find old recordings of Billy Barty's voice, cut it together, and fix that attraction.

If only we had gotten WestCot out in Anaheim, and received clones of JII, Horizons, The Living Seas, and the rest...we wouldn't need to worry about TDO's abhorrent treatment of EPCOT, because we would have TDA taking good care of their versions.

This is true as well. Its touching to listen to the track in my car and hear Dreamfinders encouraging words about the full power of imagination, "Your key to unlock the hidden wonders of our world". The ride could have been a flagship for imagineering itself! The key to all rides.

You're intimate with figment because In a way you're in his shoes. well if he had shoes. anywho, you follow his learning, you see his inception, you become uneasy around the monsters, dazzled by the garden and the laser lights, watch him expirience new things like that bubble in the science part, the painting, the showbiz, and the finale. Now its kinda like they just wanted to make it look like Nigel bored you before only cuz he wasn't schooled in imagination. I think it could have worked better if Dreamfinder and Figment came back and schooled him a sort of taking him and you (the average real life people) into their world sort of thing. dump the whole science lab thing it stinks (literally in some parts). put the magic back in, the kind I know they can do. The kind that years later after i've become an adult, I still get butterflies when thinking about.

I often thought the same thing about WestCot and even make little versions of it in rollercoaster tycoon lol just out of wishful thinking. However if you notice if disney removes a "cloned ride" its almost always not the original version but the copy. Mr. Toad, Country Bears,Snow white, all copy versions. albeit they were the better versions imo. (well bears was the same but you know).

 

[montyz81]

I wonder. If Epcot were to stand on it's own as a park not associated with Disney, Would it be on the top 10 Theme Park attendance lists? I also wonder how that would compare to Epcot Center if put in the same situation. I am not talking about just taking away the connections to Disney, I am talking about putting in a place where there aren't any other Theme Parks. Some place where there is a huge vacation population, but not in Orlando. I only say this because we are all talking about the what worked and Journy and what isn't working. I really think that the lack of investment in Epcot is because they do not have to worry about the attendance as much. It continues to show up on that list and make money, they do not need to justify massive investments. hmmmm...... Just curious really.

 

[aladdin2007]

I wonder. If Epcot were to stand on it's own as a park not associated with Disney, Would it be on the top 10 Theme Park attendance lists? I also wonder how that would compare to Epcot Center if put in the same situation. I am not talking about just taking away the connections to Disney, I am talking about putting in a place where there aren't any other Theme Parks. Some place where there is a huge vacation population, but not in Orlando. I only say this because we are all talking about the what worked and Journy and what isn't working. I really think that the lack of investment in Epcot is because they do not have to worry about the attendance as much. It continues to show up on that list and make money, they do not need to justify massive investments. hmmmm...... Just curious really.

In a way I think they are devaluing everything but the MK, it seems like all is going for the MK while continuous cuts and lack up keep are implemented at the other parks, hence the price hikes and MK is differently priced now. Two parks have to lose their parades for one new MK parade? Just as an example. They figure with the others they can get by yet funnel all the funding to MK hoping everyone will go there and not notice the downgrades and lack of new things at the others. I know the studios will be getting its changes soon but Epcot and AK seem to be just left to muttle through on their own.

 

[ExtinctJenn]

It's sad when I check-in on a subscribed post and don't have enough attention span to read the 8 paragraphs of things people have added since I was last here but I think the summary still is the same. Some people are against P&F, some people are against change in general, some people loved JII (original), some people think a change is needed but don't know to what and generally everyone agrees the current version sucks. Ok did I sum that up? LOL

 

[montyz81]

It's sad when I check-in on a subscribed post and don't have enough attention span to read the 8 paragraphs of things people have added since I was last here but I think the summary still is the same. Some people are against P&F, some people are against change in general, some people loved JII (original), some people think a change is needed but don't know to what and generally everyone agrees the current version sucks. Ok did I sum that up? LOL

I agree change is good. I do not think the original rides could go forever, but they could have been great basis for implementing and showcasing new technology which is what the original EPCOT was intended to do. Not showcase Pixar films by ripping out good technology for a low tech approach.

 

[ChrisM]

Another reason They are classic characters and are more imaginative than Gravity Falls, P&F, And half of the mediocre cartoons that came during Disney's One Saturday Morning..

I hate to break this to you, but Darkwing Duck is in no way, shape, or form more "imaginative" than Phineas & Ferb.

A throw back to your childhood, perhaps. That's it.

 

[willtravel]

I would like to see Journey to the Center of the Earth film to go into the now EO theatre. I think it would have great potential in there.