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Imagination! Being Replaced w. Dr. Doof?
- Thread starter bcampione
- Start date
Fairybuzz
Well-Known Member
lol its ok happens to me all the time!
But yeah I mean queen hanging on wires, alcoves, normal people turned into cyborgs even the room looks like a cube ship interior
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Oh yes, I picked up exactly what you meant!
englanddg
One Little Spark...
Ok, I am about to ramble, I admit to it up front...
I remember having a debate with a College English Professor at a book gathering at a Barnes and Noble in the mid 90s...
I'd go to the Starbucks there and read or work on coding projects (computer stuff)...and see her conducting her class "extra credit", which was basically a "book club" format...
Often I'd listen in on their discussions, as I found it quite interesting, and was happy with her open format of discussion and debate.
One night, they started discussing "Imagination", as it tied into a book they were reading at the time (I forget which one, but it was one I was familiar with), and my ears perked up.
I asked if I could join. I was graciously allowed and the discussion continued.
During the course of the discussion, she made a comment that her grandchildren had no imagination as they were so focused on modern distractions such as TV, video games, and other mass market consumable products. The inevitable "back in my day" comment came, where she said that kids before all this distraction used to use their imagination pretending to be astronauts and building space suits out of tin foil, as they focused on seeking out new worlds.
Now, I have no issue with the "back in my day" comment. But, if you are honestly discussing and debating something, you must realize that your nostalgia is just that, and credit it as such. At least that's my view.
So, at the time, I, wanting a solid and honest debate, responded that...those kids who grew up in 60s which she quotes as "so imaginative" for making rocket ships out of cardboard and spacesuits out of foil, were merely mimicking the technology and media of the time, and it wasn't truly "imagination" that they had...it was association pretend (which is completely different, and NEVER a bad thing, as it is how a kid learns).
But, it wasn't revolutionary or any different than a child in the early 90s wearing Hammer Pants made from a trash bag, or a kid in the 80s wanting to be Luke Skywalker and making a light saber out of a used paper towel roll.
I countered that true imagination involves dreaming up new and unique ideas which are NOT popular, and that this ties into invention, as this is the difference between a "dreamer" and a "doer"...the "dreamer" has a vision of something new and unique, but the "doer" figures out how to make that vision a reality which can be shared.
I also stated that dreamers have their place, such as many Science Fiction authors which envisioned a future which we are now starting to realize (in some cases). But, the best visionaries (dreamers), those with the most imagination whose stories lasted the longest, had a solid understanding of what it would take to actually make their dreams a reality, even if they couldn't express it to the last diode or detail at the time.
Oh lord, you could almost see the steam coming out of her ears...
Lets just say she pulled out the tired "what are your credentials" argument, and I was no longer invited to her little gatherings...and actually got the stink eye from her whenever I'd run by their group at Starbucks from that day forth.
englanddg
One Little Spark...
That's sounds like the Monsters University Dean telling Mike he's not scary. But now I'm trying to go to sleep and I have Supertramp stuck in my head.
"Dreamer, you know you are a dreamer
Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no..."
Here, this should help...
Inspirational music to sleep by!
I like figment, (My daughter still sleeps with a stuffed Figment), but his ride could definitely be better. Phineas and Ferb indeed have enough footage in the vault to compare with some of the Disney Classics I bet. I don't know if there's any way to check, but I wonder how many hours of cartoons feature Chip & Dale compared to P & F. Imagine if there was a way to combine P & F with Doof, and (Just stay with me for a minute), Mickey and the other classic characters. Maybe even work in Bell's father, and the inventor from Meet the Robinsons.
Maybe the theme could be that Disney has lost its imagination, and P & F ("I know what we're gonna do today") help find it. They then embark on a journey to find it, and they consult with classic Disney inventors to bring it back. Maybe Figment could be their guide. Maybe the Dreamfinder could be in there somewhere. Maybe imagneering legends like Marty Sklar could be animatroned. Maybe along the way, Doof could try to do what they did, like build Spaceship Earth, maybe make a "Spaceship Evil" but it blows up.
In short, if they get rid of Figment and just use P & F, bad. If they use Figment along with P & F, and incorporate a bunch of other stuff. Good. Real good. Perhaps even great. And if I, a lawyer in Wisconsin, could conjure this up on a sleepy Saturday morning, what could the real imagineers do?
Maybe the theme could be that Disney has lost its imagination, and P & F ("I know what we're gonna do today") help find it. They then embark on a journey to find it, and they consult with classic Disney inventors to bring it back. Maybe Figment could be their guide. Maybe the Dreamfinder could be in there somewhere. Maybe imagneering legends like Marty Sklar could be animatroned. Maybe along the way, Doof could try to do what they did, like build Spaceship Earth, maybe make a "Spaceship Evil" but it blows up.
In short, if they get rid of Figment and just use P & F, bad. If they use Figment along with P & F, and incorporate a bunch of other stuff. Good. Real good. Perhaps even great. And if I, a lawyer in Wisconsin, could conjure this up on a sleepy Saturday morning, what could the real imagineers do?
FigmentJedi
Well-Known Member
Sounds way too messy and random for a 7-12 minute ride, later number taking into account the possibility of bringing back the turntable's track. And I don't think a Doof plot fits the pavilion at all. If anything, Phineas and Ferb inclusion should just be an animated remake of Magic Journeys starring the kids over at the Magic Eye.
Also, Cornelius Robinson needs to go fix Tomorrowland over at Magic Kingdom.
As for a ride redo, go the route that they did with the original Spaceship Earth being written by Ray Bradbury and get some outside help in rejuvenating the old Figment and Dreamfinder mythology. Like Neil Gaiman or William Joyce.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
I'm a longtime fan of Figment and the original attraction, but I'm all for a total redo of the pavilion.
Everything about the current attraction is wrong. Figment is supposed to be a curious audience-surrogate character who wants to learn, not a teacher/prankster who irritates Eric Idle.
The focus isn't even on imagination- it's on the five senses. Telling people it's still about "imagination" doesn't make it so.
Phineas and Ferb would fit the theme of the pavilion perfectly as you've got obvious foil characters in the kids and the bumbling, evil scientist. There's a lot of possibilities there to show how different minds can view different situations and explore the moral side of science and human creativity without getting all preachy
I say gut everything and go to town.
Anything they build couldn't possibly be worse than what we have now, could it?
Everything about the current attraction is wrong. Figment is supposed to be a curious audience-surrogate character who wants to learn, not a teacher/prankster who irritates Eric Idle.
The focus isn't even on imagination- it's on the five senses. Telling people it's still about "imagination" doesn't make it so.
Phineas and Ferb would fit the theme of the pavilion perfectly as you've got obvious foil characters in the kids and the bumbling, evil scientist. There's a lot of possibilities there to show how different minds can view different situations and explore the moral side of science and human creativity without getting all preachy
I say gut everything and go to town.
Anything they build couldn't possibly be worse than what we have now, could it?
FigmentJedi
Well-Known Member
That's because the new ride is designed as a meta-story about how the 2000 version was terrible, with Figment having been sidelined in the previous version and now representing the angry fandom response to said changes, deflating every one of Eric Idle's dumb science experiments. It was cute as a bandaid over the problem, but after eleven years, it's gotten old.
And again, the Imagination Pavilion should never be about only science. The pre-Institute pavilion was about how imagination is a core of human culture and about creative toolsets for the future. The cultural element has always been a big part of Future World just as much as it's at the forefront of World Showcase.
Horizons wasn't just a generic "Let's predict the future" ride, it was about showing how we've looked at the future in the past and within it's own predictions emphasized how the American family would keep consistent in the future. World of Motion showed how the history of transportation impacts society as it grows more advanced. Spaceship Earth's pretty much all about our culture under the guise of communications. The Land's always been about man's relationship with the environment and agriculture. Even the Living Seas in it's original conception was much more about man's relationship with the ocean and how the seas have inspired our imaginations (Poseidon and sea monsters) before the cuts left it focused all on Sea Base.
Fairybuzz
Well-Known Member
That was my gripe about the new management tiki room. It banked so much on everyone knowing the original show but when people inevitably came not knowing that original show it makes far less sense. "The same show since 1963? what are they talking about?"
I used to think of epcot as a place that if an alien came down, they could be introduced to the world and get a cultural understanding where we are where we've been where were going, a couple of major nations and their culture, our dreams, our planet, our arts, our technology. It was cool
RandomPrincess
Keep Moving Forward
I would LOVE to see P&F in the Imagination Pavilion a nice new 3D movie would be great. HISTA and Captain Eo are way past their prime.
TRONorail10
Active Member
One idea I had to please the Disney addicts and also give management and imagineers a new platform from which to move forward with today's audience, is to go ahead with a total makeover of Journey Into Imagination with a new Phineas & Ferb ride. The second part is to utilize Figment in different attractions. Imagine if Agent P's World Showcase Adventure turned into Figment's Imagination Adventure (or something like that). You could travel around the world using your imagination to help formulate clues to Figment's whereabouts. Another idea would be to create an all new 3D/4D movie to replace Captain EO and have it be hosted by Figment with a central theme about using your imagination to do different things, create different objects or take you to different places. I think it's a win/win for Disney. They have the opportunity to create multiple new attractions, push a modern franchise with more theme park presence, and also preserve some of the nostalgia of EPCOT without removing Figment completely.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Do they? Disney has shown a willingness to close without replacement.
Fairybuzz
Well-Known Member
Phineas and Ferb is relavent now but in 5 years.....
Its like i said, how many people would think a tailspin ride or darkwing duck adventure would have lasted today
tv shows come and go in terms of popularity.
Bairstow
Well-Known Member
Fairybuzz
Well-Known Member
I think that should be rethemed too. Its an artifact. Yet I think a ton of people actually think its about inspector gadget. ITs also a different situation because its a rollercoaster. People don't go on that ride because of the theming or the tie in they do so because its a good introductary coaster for youngsters.
aladdin2007
Well-Known Member
True, Imagination needs something to stand time not another tv show/cartoon/preschool set overlay, with the continuing trend of cartooning down Epcot. Anything PF should go into the Studios, if they must at all.