Hyperion Wharf Begins

[dreamscometrue]

Why does everyone always blast TDO? Do you honestly believe they have the first and last say on their budget, distribution of revenue and long-term LBV investments? They answer to Burbank like any other division of TWDC.

Also, throw $300 million at DL or DCA and you will see a difference. Throw that much at WDW, and you get FLE -- a modest expansion in just one of four possible parks. TWDC would have to spend upwards of $2 billion: $500 million in each park to make all the necessary adjustments and renovations that everyone expects... and that's never going to happen. If you think they should be spending that kind of money, you don't know the first thing about corporate expectations, structuring or finance. The theme parks represent a fraction of their overall business model. It may be all you folks see, but Iger & Co. have many other obligations. Food for thought.

Well said...I agree 100%.

I never cease to be amazed by the number of negative posts (negative people in the world, in general) and the comments about budgets, timelines, expansion, etc. by people who clearly know nothing about business, labor, etc. All it really does is put their ignorance and negativity on display for all to witness.

 

[jt04]

Just more evidence you know squat about construction.

I'm all ears in a manner of speaking. :lookaroun

Learn me something then.

 

[jt04]

But jt....

Staggs didn't cut the FLE budget. Not as as head of P&R. That was done on Rasulo's watch, several years ago.
Actually, it wasn't "cut" at all. The project was scaled back before it ever even had an official budget.

Some people still think the removal of the PH and mega meet & greets were a cut in funds. Others say adding the mine coaster and circus costs additional funds. And you know that.

Just to clarify an earlier point someone alluded to, if I had to choose between the big budgeted space mountain and no FLE or a refurbished SM and the FLE, I'd choose the second of these. Of course I am aware it is said they are unrelated but just for the hypothetical of it.

 

[Master Yoda]

First someone said they are not erosion barriers but rather barriers to keep the soil from washing away. huh?:ROFLOL:

My we love to twist things don't we? I said they are called silt curtains. They are designed to keep debris from leaving a construction site. They are not designed to stop erosion and they are not expensive so your description of them as "expensive temporary erosion barriers" was incorrect. Now to be fair they will stop erosion a little but that is not their main purpose. You can drive a screw with a hammer but you never refer to a hammer as a screwdriver.

I'm all ears in a manner of speaking. :lookaroun

Learn me something then.

Those black things are not expensive temporary erosion barriers. There. We learned you something today.

 

[wm49rs]

Good to hear. I pointed out a couple times in this thread that the seed is likely mandated by environmental regulations because the area is so close to a natural body of water and erosion would be seen as a problem. I think this was confirmed because they have since created a dirt path for vehicles and they installed expensive temporary erosion barriers on each side of the new path. There is no way they were likely to complete a removal project one day and start construction the next. The removal crews had to have time to leave the area and the construction company will need to stage all of their equipment. All in an area still open for business with heavy vehicle and pedestrian traffic. It is also likely that companies like HD requested they be able too complete their move before the heavy construction starts.

I believe some of the doom and gloom people know this very well, but they will do anything to stir the pot and create the illusion of something that isn't. Some bitterness remains over PI's demise.

Hyperion Wharf is on the way.

First someone said they are not erosion barriers but rather barriers to keep the soil from washing away. huh?

Just to be clear, Jt, you were the one who pointed out the placement of the erosion barriers. Let's dispense with the notion of the illusionary "someone," shall we?

 

[jt04]

My we love to twist things don't we? I said they are called silt curtains. They are designed to keep debris from leaving a construction site. They are not designed to stop erosion and they are not expensive so your description of them as "expensive temporary erosion barriers" was incorrect. Now to be fair they will stop erosion a little but that is not their main purpose. You can drive a screw with a hammer but you never refer to a hammer as a screwdriver.

Those black things are not expensive temporary erosion barriers. There. We learned you something today.

Thanks very much Yoda. Now I know something about construction sites I did not know before. But have you accounted for the costs of the sticks and labor?

Just to be clear, Jt, you were the one who pointed out the placement of the erosion barriers. Let's dispense with the notion of the illusionary "someone," shall we?

Master Yoda may be "illusionary" to you but he leaned me something today so how do you explain that? :shrug:

Read on for the quote refered to by me.

Well that is the reason I could not find an "expensive temporary erosion barrier" that you described. Those are neither erosion barriers or expensive. Those are called silt curtains and all they are designed do is prevent debris from a construction site from washing into the water or an adjacent site. They are required by code around any construction site. They cost around 2-4 cents per linear foot.

That seems like a lot of linear feet. Perhaps I should stock up at that price.

 

[marni1971]

Why does everyone always blast TDO?

Because there are several examples discussed by people who know about it every month on these boards.

 

[flavious27]

Yup...that would REALLY work...as long as they focused on the vintage V-dubs.

I mean...it's a no-brainer to have a Herbie animatronic out front. (No blinking eyelids though!)

Maybe squirting windshield washers...a hood that opens...the car could "shudder" and maybe "burn rubber." (as well as honk the horn).

The problem is that the quality of VW products are going really downhill. If you don't believe so, check out the new Jetta. There is a reason it's as cheap as it is. That's not the "German Engineering" that people know and love.

They also just unveiled the new Microbus concept...so having that on display would be really cool too!

And...they could also do Cruise Days for VW's. It would gain a lot of traffic in the area.

Well they market their crappier cars to the us because people still really don't want to spend more than 20k on a vw.

They could place a couple of old beetles in the store with both the front and back lids open and stuffed with merch. There could be a herbie mounted above the doors so it appears to be busting out.

Disney could have VW use the store as a showroom for concept cars.

 

[flavious27]

Fixed that for ya...

True that!

 

[flavious27]

I can always count on you Lee. It is like chumming for sharks. :lol:

But on a lighter note, the longer the AC stands the more I think they may be making plans for that building. Maybe not a complete return of the AC but maybe something to preserve the venue. Who knows at this point?

No one knows what is really going on, probably not even tdo. It does cost extra to demo everything at once and ac does have the first level to deal with.

 

[flavious27]

Why does everyone always blast TDO? Do you honestly believe they have the first and last say on their budget, distribution of revenue and long-term LBV investments? They answer to Burbank like any other division of TWDC.

Also, throw $300 million at DL or DCA and you will see a difference. Throw that much at WDW, and you get FLE -- a modest expansion in just one of four possible parks. TWDC would have to spend upwards of $2 billion: $500 million in each park to make all the necessary adjustments and renovations that everyone expects... and that's never going to happen. If you think they should be spending that kind of money, you don't know the first thing about corporate expectations, structuring or finance. The theme parks represent a fraction of their overall business model. It may be all you folks see, but Iger & Co. have many other obligations. Food for thought.

Well we blast tdo because they are the local management team that makes the decisions for the wdw property. Ultimately burbank's bean-counters are the last ones to approve the budget for the parks, but tdo is not just any division of a multi-national corporation.

I don't see tdo getting a billion for park development in a decade, unless they are adding a new gate or hotel. Every park has some need for development, but some are in more need than others. EPCOT doesn't have room to add more to FW, but WOL and Imagination need overhauls. DHS and DAK both need new lands added. MK after FLE needs just nips and tucks. If they add a moderate resort, it shouldn't cost more than a billion (excluding fle and aa) for that development.

 

[xdan0920]

Why does everyone always blast TDO? Do you honestly believe they have the first and last say on their budget, distribution of revenue and long-term LBV investments? They answer to Burbank like any other division of TWDC.

Also, throw $300 million at DL or DCA and you will see a difference. Throw that much at WDW, and you get FLE -- a modest expansion in just one of four possible parks. TWDC would have to spend upwards of $2 billion: $500 million in each park to make all the necessary adjustments and renovations that everyone expects... and that's never going to happen. If you think they should be spending that kind of money, you don't know the first thing about corporate expectations, structuring or finance. The theme parks represent a fraction of their overall business model. It may be all you folks see, but Iger & Co. have many other obligations. Food for thought.

Iger does have many different divisions to oversee. Hence our vitriol towards TDO. It seems like most every division of the Disney Company is moving forward, growing and getting better. Animation has taken huge leaps forward with the addition of Lasseter. DisneyLand has been getting better for years, and now they have totally remade their 2nd park. A brand spanking new multi-billion dollar park is going into Shanghai. The examples are endless. And yet, TDO bungles project after project for the flagship resort.

 

[jt04]

Iger does have many different divisions to oversee. Hence our vitriol towards TDO. It seems like most every division of the Disney Company is moving forward, growing and getting better. Animation has taken huge leaps forward with the addition of Lasseter. DisneyLand has been getting better for years, and now they have totally remade their 2nd park. A brand spanking new multi-billion dollar park is going into Shanghai. The examples are endless. And yet, TDO bungles project after project for the flagship resort.

I dare say that since many people can see the FLE rising from the back of the MK that they would also see rants like yours utterly lacking reason. Almost foolish.

That Disney decided to fix DCA with such large capital investments while also working to fix HKDL and the Paris parks, it is easy to understand that there is only so much financial capital but more importantly creative resources to do justice to the Disney brand. And if they outsourced even more people would complain about that. So rather than dilluting the product Iger chooses quality over quantity. Huh, just like Walt would.



Finally, it is well established now that TDO has little if any say on large projects and hasn't for going on a couple years. So yeah, your thoughts are not grounded in reality.

Some bash TDO because there is always a segment of workers that hates management. Usually because of a realization that within themselves they lack the talent or will or both to climb the ladder. Some delude themselves into thinking they could do better but for some reason have not done so in any area of their lives at any point. And there are others who are just bittter malcontents. And finally there are the trolls who can't let go of the "TDO is the reason I'm miserable" meme. :lol:

 

[xdan0920]

I dare say that since many people can see the FLE rising from the back of the MK that they would also see rants like yours utterly lacking reason. Almost foolish.

That Disney decided to fix DCA with such large capital investments while also working to fix HKDL and the Paris parks, it is easy to understand that there is only so much financial capital but more importantly creative resources to do justice to the Disney brand. And if they outsourced even more people would complain about that. So rather than dilluting the product Iger chooses quality over quantity. Huh, just like Walt would.



Finally, it is well established now that TDO has little if any say on large projects and hasn't for going on a couple years. So yeah, your thoughts are not grounded in reality.

Some bash TDO because there is always a segment of workers that hates management. Usually because of a realization that within themselves they lack the talent or will or both to climb the ladder. Some delude themselves into thinking they could do better but for some reason have not done so in any area of their lives at any point. And there are others who are just bittter malcontents. And finally there are the trolls who can't let go of the "TDO is the reason I'm miserable" meme. :lol:

Not grounded in reality? Deluded? JT, you see in others what you refuse to see in yourself.

I am sure a 40x25 castle top is not fooling anyone into thinking TDO is all of a sudden competent.

I actually like Iger, I practically worship Lasseter, and I believe, if they are given the time and the right information and guidance they will turn around a lot of what ails WDW. Unfortunately that falls to TDO, and they have yet to prove they have any clue. The subject this thread was meant to be discussing, HW, has become little more then a joke. FLE does look nice in the concept art, but we must hope that TDO stays the course. Epcot, my favorite park, sits in a state of perpetual decay. These are not problems you can throw onto the shoulders of Iger, it starts with TDO. They need to come up with solutions, and bring them to the big boss. What we have seen, is that they are incapable of doing so. They pinch pennies here and there, and the parks suffer because of it. They show a nice fat bottom line though, and they get to keep their cushy management positions at TDO.

Finally I am far from miserable. I love WDW, and, unlike you, will be spending yet another vacation there in 2011. I, like many others, know it could be better. That is all.

 

[jt04]

Not grounded in reality? Deluded? JT, you see in others what you refuse to see in yourself.

I am sure a 40x25 castle top is not fooling anyone into thinking TDO is all of a sudden competent.

I actually like Iger, I practically worship Lasseter, and I believe, if they are given the time and the right information and guidance they will turn around a lot of what ails WDW. Unfortunately that falls to TDO, and they have yet to prove they have any clue. The subject this thread was meant to be discussing, HW, has become little more then a joke. FLE does look nice in the concept art, but we must hope that TDO stays the course. Epcot, my favorite park, sits in a state of perpetual decay. These are not problems you can throw onto the shoulders of Iger, it starts with TDO. They need to come up with solutions, and bring them to the big boss. What we have seen, is that they are incapable of doing so. They pinch pennies here and there, and the parks suffer because of it. They show a nice fat bottom line though, and they get to keep their cushy management positions at TDO.

Finally I am far from miserable. I love WDW, and, unlike you, will be spending yet another vacation there in 2011. I, like many others, know it could be better. That is all.

I only called the trolls miserable.

I guess we have to disagree. I think these decisions have been stripped from TDO. The new queues, ST2, Nextgen tech, nextgen m&g's and the FLE are being directed from the top down I believe. In other words, from Glendale and corporate. TDO is not the problem as they just are not players in developing the parks in any serious way I am pretty sure.

You are right though, I won't be visiting again until DAK and Epcot get some adds to the attractions list. Major refurbs count. Sometimes I have not visited for over 5 years due to only going when they earn my patronage. Just the way I roll. :ROFLOL:

:wave:

 

[flavious27]

I dare say that since many people can see the FLE rising from the back of the MK that they would also see rants like yours utterly lacking reason. Almost foolish.

That Disney decided to fix DCA with such large capital investments while also working to fix HKDL and the Paris parks, it is easy to understand that there is only so much financial capital but more importantly creative resources to do justice to the Disney brand. And if they outsourced even more people would complain about that. So rather than dilluting the product Iger chooses quality over quantity. Huh, just like Walt would.



Finally, it is well established now that TDO has little if any say on large projects and hasn't for going on a couple years. So yeah, your thoughts are not grounded in reality.

Some bash TDO because there is always a segment of workers that hates management. Usually because of a realization that within themselves they lack the talent or will or both to climb the ladder. Some delude themselves into thinking they could do better but for some reason have not done so in any area of their lives at any point. And there are others who are just bittter malcontents. And finally there are the trolls who can't let go of the "TDO is the reason I'm miserable" meme. :lol:

Parks also spent 2 billion on two of these:

And yeah disney co had to spent over a billion to fix their adventure of dl's second gate.

 

[Condorman]

Once again, let me explain how this works:

TWDC has $300 million to spend. They have a choice to make (and don't argue that each division has their own budget. Green-lighting projects on this scale are decisions made at the top). TWDC's choice is this: They can either build a new E-Ticket for DAK or finance a PoTC 5 (movie).

The E-Ticket will bring in anywhere from 10-20% greater attendance per annum and maybe -- maybe -- $100 million in ticket sales over 5 years.

or

The movie will bring in $500 million at the B.O. in six months plus $150 million in video sales, syndication rights, merchandising AND curiosity to the PoTC attractions, which will in turn spike attendance at the Disney theme parks.

Now, you're sitting in CEO's chair and you have a choice to make:

A) Movie with immediate payoff or E-Ticket with slow return factor?

B) Cruise ship which pays for itself in the first 36 months or an E-Ticket that will take the better part of a decade?

C) A new park in a burgeoning country with the world's largest population, or a little old E-Ticket to satisfy the disgruntled armchair Imagineers?

There is a correct answer here, folks, and it's not the E-Ticket. I'm like many of you. I can envision a thousand wondrous lands, rides, shows, etc. in a massive Grand Re-Opening redux of WDW. But it's not an intelligent business decision for a company that has so many other aspects to consider that most of you, for whatever reason, are choosing to ignore. You may spend hours a day on this discussion board typing out your wanton fantasies. TWDC has a few more things to worry about than renovating WoL or UoE. And if their nonchalance offends you, there are several lesser amusement attempts right up the I-4. Go. Please. TWDC won't miss you. Their numbers prove it.

 

[unkadug]

But you are equating the cost of an "E" ticket to the cost of building a park in a another country or the cost of a cruise ship.

That's hardly a fair comparison. :wave:

 

[CDavid]

Once again, let me explain how this works:

TWDC has $300 million to spend. They have a choice to make (and don't argue that each division has their own budget. Green-lighting projects on this scale are decisions made at the top). TWDC's choice is this: They can either build a new E-Ticket for DAK or finance a PoTC 5 (movie).

The E-Ticket will bring in anywhere from 10-20% greater attendance per annum and maybe -- maybe -- $100 million in ticket sales over 5 years.

or

The movie will bring in $500 million at the B.O. in six months plus $150 million in video sales, syndication rights, merchandising AND curiosity to the PoTC attractions, which will in turn spike attendance at the Disney theme parks.

Now, you're sitting in CEO's chair and you have a choice to make:

A) Movie with immediate payoff or E-Ticket with slow return factor?

B) Cruise ship which pays for itself in the first 36 months or an E-Ticket that will take the better part of a decade?

C) A new park in a burgeoning country with the world's largest population, or a little old E-Ticket to satisfy the disgruntled armchair Imagineers?

There is a correct answer here, folks, and it's not the E-Ticket. I'm like many of you. I can envision a thousand wondrous lands, rides, shows, etc. in a massive Grand Re-Opening redux of WDW. But it's not an intelligent business decision for a company that has so many other aspects to consider that most of you, for whatever reason, are choosing to ignore. You may spend hours a day on this discussion board typing out your wanton fantasies. TWDC has a few more things to worry about than renovating WoL or UoE. And if their nonchalance offends you, there are several lesser amusement attempts right up the I-4. Go. Please. TWDC won't miss you. Their numbers prove it.

Yes, there is a correct answer. However, with Disney there is actually more than one correct answer. While the company doesn't have unlimited resources, Disney is a large enough entity that it can well afford to be building cruise ships, new Shanghai level resorts, financing movie blockbusters, and developing major new theme park attractions simultaneously. It should also be pointed out that not every attraction should be an "E" ticket anyway, nor carry such a pricetag; There is an appropriate level of investment for the WDW theme parks, and there is overwhelming evidence they are being shortchanged.

Long after that blockbuster movie has been relegated to the $5 bargain bin DVD pile, that theme park attraction will still be pulling in the crowds. You also have to beware of Hollywood accounting. Disney may see only about half of that $500 million gross, out of which they have to pay for the cost of making the movie, marketing, and other costs. In theory, before merchandise and DVD sales, the studio could actually do no better than break-even on the years biggest movie. I'm not saying its a bad investment (though some big budget pictures flop miserably), but its not necessairily the immediate and huge payoff it appears at first glance.

 

[flavious27]

Yes, there is a correct answer. However, with Disney there is actually more than one correct answer. While the company doesn't have unlimited resources, Disney is a large enough entity that it can well afford to be building cruise ships, new Shanghai level resorts, financing movie blockbusters, and developing major new theme park attractions simultaneously. It should also be pointed out that not every attraction should be an "E" ticket anyway, nor carry such a pricetag; There is an appropriate level of investment for the WDW theme parks, and there is overwhelming evidence they are being shortchanged.

Long after that blockbuster movie has been relegated to the $5 bargain bin DVD pile, that theme park attraction will still be pulling in the crowds. You also have to beware of Hollywood accounting. Disney may see only about half of that $500 million gross, out of which they have to pay for the cost of making the movie, marketing, and other costs. In theory, before merchandise and DVD sales, the studio could actually do no better than break-even on the years biggest movie. I'm not saying its a bad investment (though some big budget pictures flop miserably), but its not necessairily the immediate and huge payoff it appears at first glance.

Well part of the reason why disney has the vault, they want their $20 - $30 for their movies instead of $5 - $10.