Hyperion Wharf: any news?

lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
71jason said:
From a marketing perspective, you're right. But the genius of CityWalk--something TDO management missed when they tried to copy it by tearing down the turnstiles--is that it does have zones, they're just not marked as such. The nightclubs are all isolated upstairs, except Maragaritaville which was always more of a restaurant anyway. Meanwhile, the more family-friendly restaurants--HRC, the sports ones--are on the other side of the lake. CityWalk didn't need turnstiles because its geography effectively accomplished the same effect, keeping the strollers away from the drunks. Any nightlife area at WDW needs to do the same.
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The zones were geographic as well with Downtown Disney. Nobody thought putting West Side opposite Pleasure Island was a problem because it was more a retail expansion of Pleasure Island than the Marketplace. With the exception of DisneyQuest, West Side was/is geared towards an older demographic.
 
A

acr123

Member
Pleasure Island as we knew it, Im sure will never return. I say they need to just call all of Downtown Disney "Downtown Disney" and convert the former Mannequins Club with the huge Pleasure Island sign on its roof to a new state of the art club called "The Pleasure Island Club".
 
71jason

71jason

Well-Known Member
unkadug said:
:veryconfu :lookaroun



The economy. Not necessarily Disney's idea to put it on hold, but other businesses are not jumping at the chance to be a part of it right now.
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Sorry, Dug by the economy is fine around that area, even robust. West 192, maybe 5 minutes away, is exploding with growth. Over a dozen new (tourist-targeting) restaurants in under 3 years. TDO had unrealistic expectations as to what real estate in WW would be worth. Huge difference--the former is out of their control, the latter certainly is not.
 
C

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
71jason said:
Sorry, Dug by the economy is fine around that area, even robust. West 192, maybe 5 minutes away, is exploding with growth. Over a dozen new (tourist-targeting) restaurants in under 3 years. TDO had unrealistic expectations as to what real estate in WW would be worth. Huge difference--the former is out of their control, the latter certainly is not.
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I think the Western Way expansion plan was a greedy attempt at a cash grab by the mouse but it's just not working. As evidenced by the very recent growth on the west end of 192, you can't blame the failure to develop this area based on the economy. If you are a restaurant/shop/hotel seeking the tourist market, 192 just makes more sense as the rents will be less than Disney's, as well as the (appropriate) restrictions Disney would impose on the development. Not to mention the fact that Flamingo Crossings is out in the middle of nowhere on the 429, with nothing else near it. At least if you're on this newly developed section of 192, there are tons of resorts and timeshares right down the road.

With Walgreens going in, I guess Disney has some hope, but I honestly don't see this succeeding on any level in the near future. And in some ways I'm actually glad for that (not that Disney ever learns any lessons from things like this anyway...)
 
kapeman

kapeman

Member
71jason said:
That said, PI also served a niche--adults who want nightlife. That need is not being served currently. Granger just had 12,000 people on-property; they had to bus them off to CityWalk to find something to do at night. Convention-goers, newlyweds, Spring Breakers, parents who brought grandma to babysit...a significant number of guests don't want to go to bed at 10 p.m. on vacation, and while PI may not have been the ideal geographic location to serve them, it was at least adequate for 19 years. I don't see anything else every really fitting in that area, why not give nightlife another go, learning from the mistakes of the past.
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71jason said:
I have to disagree with you here. First, I don't see a need for every experience/space at WDW to be open 18 hours a day. By way of example, AK is generally only open 8, bit it still makes money. A better example might be, say, California Grill--only open 6 hours a day. But it would compromise CG's identity to use it for a princess breakfast every morning. Profitable space is profitable space..

This ties into my second disagreement--I think one of the two* biggest mistakes with PI was allowing the "adults only" vibe to be diluted by taking down the turnstiles. Build a bypass (a new, wide sidewalk would be cheap), but don't kill the adult/nightlife centered brand by letting people see kids there all the time.

*-[before anyone asks, the other was allowing the clubs to get stale.]



From a marketing perspective, you're right. But the genius of CityWalk--something TDO management missed when they tried to copy it by tearing down the turnstiles--is that it does have zones, they're just not marked as such. The nightclubs are all isolated upstairs, except Maragaritaville which was always more of a restaurant anyway. Meanwhile, the more family-friendly restaurants--HRC, the sports ones--are on the other side of the lake. CityWalk didn't need turnstiles because its geography effectively accomplished the same effect, keeping the strollers away from the drunks. Any nightlife area at WDW needs to do the same.
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I couldn't agree more.


If the armchair quarterbacks can nail the PI issues this well, why in the name of all this is holy can't the management that is in charge grasp this?

Are we seeing the Peter Principle in action?
 
evilzorac

evilzorac

Active Member
kapeman said:
I couldn't agree more.


If the armchair quarterbacks can nail the PI issues this well, why in the name of all this is holy can't the management that is in charge grasp this?

Are we seeing the Peter Principle in action?
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I would say the Peter Principle defines TDO.
 
Did Knee

Did Knee

Active Member
wdw71fan said:
This article on SAVE PI is 100% true.. The HW Wharf concept has been cancelled, and it is being re-worked into a new concept.....


Same ideas, different theme.. Again, expect more info closer to the shareholder meeting.
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Well...now it is not "CLOSER", but "DURING" and NO announcement. You really need to temper your pronouncements of inevitability with terms like "might" and "should". They could help your credibility down the road> :wave:
 
TP2000

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Mouse Detective said:
California management gets it.
Florida management still doesn't.
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And it makes you wonder... whatever happened to One Disney? :confused:

It isn't like Mad T Party is something new, it's just an evolution of something that started two years ago with Glow Fest. Mad T Party has just taken all that TDA learned about these "temporary" evening street parties in an underutilized corner of California Adventure Park and maxed it out and really sharpened it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A-WVlVGKczs#

Oh, and that video was just the unannounced very first night of "soft opening". This doesn't officially start until June 15th.

TDA stumbled into this concept with Glow Fest (although it took some guts to go for it in the first place back in 2010), then they took lessons learned and gave it a unique Disney spin with elecTRONica in 2011. And with Mad T Party they have really dialed it in and locked it down with fabulous effect, with an all-new but still uniquely Disney theme.

You would think in those last two years someone in Orlando would pick up the phone and call someone in Anaheim and ask "Hey, can you guys tell us how you did that? We have a few areas on our sprawling property where this concept could work great. Let's talk!"

Whatever happened to One Disney???
 
Californian Elitist

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
TP2000 said:
And it makes you wonder... whatever happened to One Disney? :confused:

It isn't like Mad T Party is something new, it's just an evolution of something that started two years ago with Glow Fest. Mad T Party has just taken all that TDA learned about these "temporary" evening street parties in an underutilized corner of California Adventure Park and maxed it out and really sharpened it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A-WVlVGKczs#

Oh, and that video was just the unannounced very first night of "soft opening". This doesn't officially start until June 15th.

TDA stumbled into this concept with Glow Fest (although it took some guts to go for it in the first place back in 2010), then they took lessons learned and gave it a unique Disney spin with elecTRONica in 2011. And with Mad T Party they have really dialed it in and locked it down with fabulous effect, with an all-new but still uniquely Disney theme.

You would think in those last two years someone in Orlando would pick up the phone and call someone in Anaheim and ask "Hey, can you guys tell us how you did that? We have a few areas on our sprawling property where this concept could work great. Let's talk!"

Whatever happened to One Disney???
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It doesn't seem like the Florida management team sees that there's a problem or the place needs some spiffing. I participated in the Disney College Program for the fall semester of 2011 at Disneyland and Meg Crofton came to visit the park. She was kind of being honored at the Grand Californian and a bunch of us went to hear her speak. At the end she was up for questions and I asked her if she had seen a difference in "magic" in either resorts (DLR and WDW). She said no. She said both resorts were equally great and up to par. Based on all the complaints I've been hearing about WDW, I don't see how she could think that but oh well.:confused:

In regards to One Disney, I don't want it to be that way if either resort has to get the short end of the stick because of it. I can't say this myself but people here say that TDO/Florida management is cheap. I don't want Disneyland and California Adventure to get cheap things or any of the other complaints I hear. If TDA and TDO think differently, then so be it.
 
luv

luv

Well-Known Member
sittle said:
... a little bird told me that HW will be a "bold new vision".... :ROFLOL: ...

HOOPLA!
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OMG, I forgot about the "bold, new vision." :ROFLOL:

That was too funny. I remember immediately thinking, "Restaurants and stores. What is bold, new or visionary there?"

I forgot all about that. Thanks for the reminder.

Bold, new vision, LOL!
 
El-Fuego

El-Fuego

Member
I've got a bad feeling about this!

There must be a sickness running through the team in charge of DTD cause for the life of me I can't figure why there is such a lack of thought and inventiveness. Do they purposefully look for the dregs to run this arm of the empire?

Ask them and we may be lucky to be provided some form of an apology for their ineptness but I'm afraid the answer would have to be "Apology accepted Captain Needa".
 
I

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
TP2000 said:
And it makes you wonder... whatever happened to One Disney? :confused:

It isn't like Mad T Party is something new, it's just an evolution of something that started two years ago with Glow Fest. Mad T Party has just taken all that TDA learned about these "temporary" evening street parties in an underutilized corner of California Adventure Park and maxed it out and really sharpened it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A-WVlVGKczs#

Oh, and that video was just the unannounced very first night of "soft opening". This doesn't officially start until June 15th.

TDA stumbled into this concept with Glow Fest (although it took some guts to go for it in the first place back in 2010), then they took lessons learned and gave it a unique Disney spin with elecTRONica in 2011. And with Mad T Party they have really dialed it in and locked it down with fabulous effect, with an all-new but still uniquely Disney theme.

You would think in those last two years someone in Orlando would pick up the phone and call someone in Anaheim and ask "Hey, can you guys tell us how you did that? We have a few areas on our sprawling property where this concept could work great. Let's talk!"

Whatever happened to One Disney???
Click to expand...


At the least, a party like that would be great in Streets Of America at DHS. You'd think TDO would see how well the Osbourne Christmas lights draw and would want to do something in that area all year round to liven it up...
 
StageFrenzy

StageFrenzy

Well-Known Member
Ignohippo said:
At the least, a party like that would be great in Streets Of America at DHS. You'd think TDO would see how well the Osbourne Christmas lights draw and would want to do something in that area all year round to liven it up...
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What if they put it inside a building? I don't know what was there before but what about all those empty buildings halfway between west side and marketplace?
 

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