Hyperion Wharf: any news?

[Mouse Detective]

I think the goal is to make greater Orlando and central Florida an even bigger player in the global tourism business. Just one example of how Disney sees things with a much wider field of vision and is approaching the marketing of WDW in a much more 'holistic' manner.

Gosh, Mickey has become such a swell fellow; such a team player!

How in the world has the thought that Disney doesn't want you to leave property and spend any money elsewhere been debunked??? Not one thing points to Disney trying to "spread the wealth" around Orlando.

Exactly. They want every penny for themselves and they've created some clever ways to make it happen.

They did blow it with adult nightlife though. They've let tens of thousands of dollars drive off the property every night.....to competitors of all places......the whole reason PI was created in the first place.

 

[Lee]

Is there any truth to the Disney Gossip rumor about them doubling the size of Downtown Disney. It says things like Pleasure Island will have two levels, there will be a lot of entertainment space, and a new parking structure with an entertainment area above it. They were allegedly reviewing the proposal. It sounds pretty ambitious to me.

Some truth, but not 100%.

 

[MichWolv]

Some truth, but not 100%.

That's at least somewhat encouraging, although not 100%.

 

[jt04]

How in the world has the thought that Disney doesn't want you to leave property and spend any money elsewhere been debunked??? By closing PI?? They didn't close PI as a way to allow distribution of income to surrounding locations. They closed PI because they thought they'd build a newer, bigger shopping and dining area that 3rd party leasees would flock to, and Disney themselves wouldn't have to run those locations anymore. They'd just get to be the landlord, plus take a cut off the top, all with very little risk. The problem is they put the cart before the horse, and obviously overestimated the demand from 3rd parties. So now we're stuck with years of empty buildings. It's that simple.

Disney wants every vacation penny you can possibly spend. Magical Express. Free transportation on property. Benefits for hotel guests (including FP+ in the near future?). Dining plans. MYW tickets. Even how they schedule park hours and events at the parks is geared toward making a family want to stay on property each evening, so they don't miss this or that.

Not one thing points to Disney trying to "spread the wealth" around Orlando. Singles and childless couples that might be looking for clubs don't care if they're at Citywalk, DTD, or Church street. Location doesn't matter... The experience does. In fact, I'd imagine they'd like clubs at EACH of these locations, so they didn't have to drive or take cabs. They could stay wherever they were located.

Your obsession with Legoland is funny. It may or may not be something Disney is concerned about... I don't know, and neither do you. I do know that it's similar in distance from Busch Gardens Tampa, and we hear very little about Disney's moves directed at keeping guests away from there... Not like we hear about with Uni or SW. I'd imagine the Lego stores and products are covered via contract in a similar way Spidey is covered down the street at Uni. Will Disney want them out after the contract? Who knows. I'd imagine it depends on Disney's research and what they find regarding missing any market share to Legoland between now and when the contract is up.

This stuff is not THAT difficult. You constantly strive to make massive conspiracies out of things that, business-wise, are fairly mundane. I really don't get it. Most of this stuff is common sense, and doesn't take some sort of group of business scholoars within Disney to come up with. I picture you sitting in the dark at your computer with a tinfoil hat, and cell phone jamming equipment forming a perimeter around your home.

I read an Orlando business write up a few years ago that explained the concept perfectly. As an example, it has been proven the opening of Potter helped Disney sell tickets they would not have otherwise. It attracted people to Orlando that would not have made the trip but for Potter and most of those people found their way to WDW. Disney contributes significant money to civic and cultural projects in Orlando. They don't do this to play nice. They do this as a business strategy. A growing dynamic greater Orlando helps WDW. You will only see them encourage more growth for locals and the tourism industry.

PS- I wouldn't be the one wearing the tin foil hat but I would be happy to sell you one. It won't matter if it is too large and covers your eyes as you lack vision anyway. :dazzle:

 

[jt04]

Gosh, Mickey has become such a swell fellow; such a team player!




Exactly. They want every penny for themselves and they've created some clever ways to make it happen.

They did blow it with adult nightlife though. They've let tens of thousands of dollars drive off the property every night.....to competitors of all places......the whole reason PI was created in the first place.

It must be terrible to go through life looking through a keyhole. Such narrow and cliched thinking. :brick:

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I read an Orlando business write up a few years ago that explained the concept perfectly. As an example, it has been proven the opening of Potter helped Disney sell tickets they would not have otherwise. It attracted people to Orlando that would not have made the trip but for Potter and most of those people found their way to WDW. Disney contributes significant money to civic and cultural projects in Orlando. They don't do this to play nice. They do this as a business strategy. A growing dynamic greater Orlando helps WDW. You will only see them encourage more growth for locals and the tourism industry.

PS- I wouldn't be the one wearing the tin foil hat but I would be happy to sell you one. It won't matter if it is too large and covers your eyes as you lack vision anyway. :dazzle:

It's been mentioned repeatedly here by those "in the know" that publicly Disney's quote regarding Potter is "a rising tide floats all ships", but that behind the scenes they're more than unnerved and freaked out and see losing the HP franchise as a huge mis-step. If all these people coming to Potter are tacking on Disney, why have their attendance numbers stayed stagnant over the past couple reports?

Donations are necessary by any coporation that size to maximize tax benefits. Of course a portion of that will go to local Orlando projects. Do they want to be seen as the 900lb Gorilla that doesn't care about those in the town it does business in (along with the media), or as the "good neighbors" that just want to help out and thank the city for everything it does for them? You're right, it's for a business reason... Actually a couple business reasons... But you're WAY off on what those reasons actually ARE.

 

[jt04]

It's been mentioned repeatedly here by those "in the know" that publicly Disney's quote regarding Potter is "a rising tide floats all ships", but that behind the scenes they're more than unnerved and freaked out and see losing the HP franchise as a huge mis-step. If all these people coming to Potter are tacking on Disney, why have their attendance numbers stayed stagnant over the past couple reports?

Donations are necessary by any coporation that size to maximize tax benefits. Of course a portion of that will go to local Orlando projects. Do they want to be seen as the 900lb Gorilla that doesn't care about those in the town it does business in (along with the media), or as the "good neighbors" that just want to help out and thank the city for everything it does for them? You're right, it's for a business reason... Actually a couple business reasons... But you're WAY off on what those reasons actually ARE.

Ordinarily I would agree but I see something different in the dynamics. I have searched for that write-up but can't find it. Perhaps it revealed too much. I think it was in the Orlando Business Journal. Perhaps someone else here is aware of it.

We agree on the "rising tide....." quote. That is the essence of what I am talking about. And some at Disney may lament losing Potter. I think it may have been the best thing to happen to WDW so far this century. This will focus TWDC on capitilizing on the draw Potter will soon be. Disney is too well capitilized to be in fear of Universal as that resort can only grow so much. Give it a few years and you will see I am right. (Again)

 

[John]

I read an Orlando business write up a few years ago that explained the concept perfectly. As an example, it has been proven the opening of Potter helped Disney sell tickets they would not have otherwise. It attracted people to Orlando that would not have made the trip but for Potter and most of those people found their way to WDW. Disney contributes significant money to civic and cultural projects in Orlando. They don't do this to play nice. They do this as a business strategy. A growing dynamic greater Orlando helps WDW. You will only see them encourage more growth for locals and the tourism industry.

PS- I wouldn't be the one wearing the tin foil hat but I would be happy to sell you one. It won't matter if it is too large and covers your eyes as you lack vision anyway. :dazzle:

IMO you are talking apples and oranges, Yes Uni has a symbiotic relationship as far as theme parks are concerned. Your assumption is Disney PARKS gain attendence by those that visit CS and CW. How does Disney gain dollars in the nightlife entertainment segment? Not sure how you rationalize Disney is gaining by not having thier own night time offering?

Theme parks versus Nightlife is a very different animal. Even if Disney does gain park attendence as you say, that dosnt dismiss the fact they they still are leaveing money on the table.

 

[bubbles1812]

I understand what you are saying and time will tell who is right. I think you underestimate Orlando's potential as a tourist draw over time.

I know of absolutely no one and I mean no one who thinks of Orlando as a tourist draw in and of itself. That goes for everyone I know whether they are from the east coast west coast or the middle of the country. People only think of the theme parks. If you want Orlando itself to actually become a tourist draw, they are going to have to do some serious changes to the city/building/revamping areas and then on top of that, some massive advertising. I think you may be overestimating Orlando's potential as a draw. It's a nice city, don't get me wrong, but I just don't see people seeing it as anything more than a place where you can get over to Uni/Disney/ect. That will be a very very hard perception to change.

I've been to the city 6 times and I've never had the desire to go anywhere but the theme parks. The time we stayed off property, we ate an IHOP and that was it. Other than that we headed to Universal and then it was to Disney for the rest of our stay. Nothing specifically in Orlando appealed to us. And it really does make no sense that you are arguing against Disney wanting people to stay on their property and to be only there...they want your money. The best way to do that is to get you to stay at Disney for the entire duration of your stay. Their whole system, pricing, deals, everything, is designed specifically to do that.

 

[Brava Centauri]

I know of absolutely no one and I mean no one who thinks of Orlando as a tourist draw in and of itself. That goes for everyone I know whether they are from the east coast west coast or the middle of the country. People only think of the theme parks. If you want Orlando itself to actually become a tourist draw, they are going to have to do some serious changes to the city/building/revamping areas and then on top of that, some massive advertising. I think you may be overestimating Orlando's potential as a draw. It's a nice city, don't get me wrong, but I just don't see people seeing it as anything more than a place where you can get over to Uni/Disney/ect. That will be a very very hard perception to change.

I've been to the city 6 times and I've never had the desire to go anywhere but the theme parks. The time we stayed off property, we ate an IHOP and that was it. Other than that we headed to Universal and then it was to Disney for the rest of our stay. Nothing specifically in Orlando appealed to us. And it really does make no sense that you are arguing against Disney wanting people to stay on their property and to be only there...they want your money. The best way to do that is to get you to stay at Disney for the entire duration of your stay. Their whole system, pricing, deals, everything, is designed specifically to do that.

Sadly, I have to somewhat agree.

Disney is what put Orlando on the map. Prior to that, we were a podunk country city surrounded by orange groves, lakes, and alligators. Though there has been a little movement toward bringing more culture into Downtown Orlando (the new performing arts center), there is almost nothing to draw tourists downtown. Depending on who you talk to, there are many locals who are fine with that. Our traffic, non-existent/poor public transportation system, and overpopulation would rather the tourist traffic stick to I-Drive, south. But the thing is, there's hardly anything anymore to bring even locals downtown. The new Amway Center is not only an ugly megalith, it's beyond crazy expensive even just to park there. Our once bustling tourist attraction (and local favorite), Church Street Station, died about 15 years ago. Companies bought it, failed to resurrect it, and now it's a shadow of its former glory.

Downtown does have a few little gems, though. The Bob Carr--while far from being the most impressive venue for broadway productions--is a historical landmark. The Orange County Historical Museum is an impressive and inexpensive exhibit. Go north for about 10 minutes and you'll hit the Orlando Museum of Art which is always great. Our Science Center isn't what it used to be, but for anyone who hasn't seen it before, it's nice. A few other smaller museums and a Shakespeare company round out our cultural park.

We have butterfly encounters and other smaller, family-owned parks (like Gatorland) that are a charm to visit. We have beautiful state parks, where you can see manatees in the winter. I know there was a time that Orlando was trying to push for more tourist traffic in the city proper and north of that ... but the economy seems to have stalled that.

True, Orlando would not be the sprawling suburban metropolis that it is today without Disney ... but anyone who wants a taste of Floridian living can easily fill at least a day or two by going where the locals go (when we can't afford theme park tickets).

 

[jt04]

I know of absolutely no one and I mean no one who thinks of Orlando as a tourist draw in and of itself...

I never claimed anything remotely close to justify this comment.

Not sure what you read but it definitely was not anything I wrote. Have a good day, um, :lookaroun Bubbles. :wave:

 

[flavious27]

I'm sorry but am I at the wrong Downtown Disney area everyone else is talking about?
It does not matter what day you go there the parking lot if packed.
Disney is not hurting for money in that area at all.
They removed the clubs because it was becoming a haven for the wrong element. They were in the news many times about fights and robberies.
They decided enough was enough.
The Orlando Sentinal has already said Hyperion Warf is dead. Not sure why it keep being brought up. Not enough companies wanting to join at the time.
Also I need to point out that at least on the weekends the Pleasure Island part of DTD is far from dead. Yes the clubs are closed and two buildings are gone but they still have places to buy drinks, live entertainment, and things like that.

As for Universal. They have to do everything and anything to survive. Harry Potter saved them. Before that they were trying to get all of us Florida Residents in by giving us two year passes and free water.
So many things are always forgotten.

Now dont get me wrong Universal is a fun place, the quality and friendliness is not there. Its like a Six Flags but with great theming.

Disney will do something with Pleasure Island when they are done with the huge projects they got going on now. I'm pretty sure they are not to worried about it.
they make a killing selling plush toys anyway.

The problems were increased when they took away the turnstiles and anyone could walk through PI. That helped to give tdo a reason to close down PI and just leave some restaurants.

So we are going to wait until after avaland is built, so another 4 years then? Disney can have more than one project going on at one time, they don't have to multitask like an iphone.

Does anyone know what happened to the western way expansion?

Thankfully it is almost dead but getting a walgreens for some reason. FC was a mistake by a former tdo to get into property management for 3rd party vendors.

WOW looks like our PLEASURE ISLAND has moved to the west side.....:brick:

!

Wait, so they took the theme of a movie that came out before tron? Well atleast disney did not make dark shadows, vampires dancing to disco .

They can always add this tron element to TL at night. Or they could just rebuild motion into the end of line club from tron legacy.

As Tupac and Dr. Dre said, California knows how to party!

Hey we know how to party on the east coast, penn state has had the distinction of being the #1 party school and even had a this american life episode dedicated to it.

At the least, a party like that would be great in Streets Of America at DHS. You'd think TDO would see how well the Osbourne Christmas lights draw and would want to do something in that area all year round to liven it up...

I think that they could do something on sunset that matches the theme of the area. They could remake the fairfax CS to have a swing music element to it.

Is there any truth to the Disney Gossip rumor about them doubling the size of Downtown Disney. It says things like Pleasure Island will have two levels, there will be a lot of entertainment space, and a new parking structure with an entertainment area above it. They were allegedly reviewing the proposal. It sounds pretty ambitious to me.

It can happen, anything really can. They will need to stack any new development above the existing parking lots, parking capacity at dtd really can not be reduced.