How will Universal's Epic Universe effect Disney?

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Well the same number of amazing's then. That's pretty good for a park just opening and one that just added an amazing 50 years later to also equal five.

It sounds like EPIC will have the must dos that you say parks require. It could use more icing, but that is what expansion pad and following years are for.

It’s a solid lineup, it’s the non rides that are going to ultimately determine where it ranks though, if all of Epic is at the level of the Harry Potter lands it’s going to be spectacular.

We’ve probably all been to parks that blow away both Disney and Universal purely on amazing ride count, but they aren’t Disney or Universal.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Unanimously*
Dang, wait until they ride Runaway Railway.

I meant uniformly. Unanimously works too but that's not the word I intended.

They've been on MMRR and liked it a lot more. I don't personally think MMRR looks great in videos (I haven't been on it), but I do think it looks better than the Mario Kart ride.

The Donkey Kong coaster has the potential to be really good, though.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I haven’t done it yet, just going on videos I’ve seen, it’s a cool concept but maybe it doesn’t work in reality.

From what I've heard about it, a big part of the problem is that it's basically a slow moving dark ride with an AR shooting gallery attached. I think some people will enjoy the shooting gallery aspect and thus like the ride, but it's a weird choice to build a Mario Kart ride that moves slowly. Plus, while shooting shells etc. is part of Mario Kart, it's not at all the focus of the game (they're just a means to an end to help you win the race), so the whole thing is a somewhat strange attempt at capturing the IP.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
I meant uniformly. Unanimously works too but that's not the word I intended.

They've been on MMRR and liked it a lot more. I don't personally think MMRR looks great in videos (I haven't been on it), but I do think it looks better than the Mario Kart ride.

When I first saw a video of Mario Kart I thought it was a wasted opportunity, it’s the perfect theme for a multi track dueling roller coaster, Hagrids but in go carts and with cars that spin would have been amazing.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I meant uniformly. Unanimously works too but that's not the word I intended.

They've been on MMRR and liked it a lot more. I don't personally think MMRR looks great in videos (I haven't been on it), but I do think it looks better than the Mario Kart ride.

The Donkey Kong coaster has the potential to be really good, though.

Having been on both I can tell you Mario Kart works better. But it should have had a lower height requirement.

Uniformly sounds more like they agreed under policy. To have their own opinions that are the same would work better as Unanimously.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
This isn't even Disney counting. It's the Themed Entertainment Association. You're creating straw man after straw man in an attempt to negate the simple fact that Disney's theme park attendance triples Universal's. What I said about a 100+ million attendance lead is irrefutable fact. Disney's on an entirely different plane of existence than the lesser businesses in the theme park industry.
If you’re going to lecture about facts then maybe get who does the counting right.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
It’s a solid lineup, it’s the non rides that are going to ultimately determine where it ranks though, if all of Epic is at the level of the Harry Potter lands it’s going to be spectacular.

We’ve probably all been to parks that blow away both Disney and Universal purely on amazing ride count, but they aren’t Disney or Universal.
Europa Park has more attractions and is almost as good as Disney and Universal.
 

Coaster Lover

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
For us, Universal was always a "tag-on" visit to our Disney trips (5-6 days at Disney + 1-2 days at Universal). In recent years, getting everything we wanted to do at Universal done in 2 days has been more and more difficult and when Epic Universe opens, it will be impossible. If we keep going to Orlando as frequently as we currently are, we likely will not be able to make our trip any longer forcing us to either choose between doing just Disney or just Universal, or spending insufficient time at one of the two chains to see everything we want and with Universal having all the new "toys" when Epic Universe opens, I suspect we will lean heavier on going to Universal when Epic opens (especially if the amount of "new" stuff at Disney around the time EU opens remains relatively minimal). The fact that hotels at Universal are (generally) less expensive than similar class hotels at Disney will likely further drive our decision to spend more time at Universal.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
For us, Universal was always a "tag-on" visit to our Disney trips (5-6 days at Disney + 1-2 days at Universal). In recent years, getting everything we wanted to do at Universal done in 2 days has been more and more difficult and when Epic Universe opens, it will be impossible. If we keep going to Orlando as frequently as we currently are, we likely will not be able to make our trip any longer forcing us to either choose between doing just Disney or just Universal, or spending insufficient time at one of the two chains to see everything we want and with Universal having all the new "toys" when Epic Universe opens, I suspect we will lean heavier on going to Universal when Epic opens (especially if the amount of "new" stuff at Disney around the time EU opens remains relatively minimal). The fact that hotels at Universal are (generally) less expensive than similar class hotels at Disney will likely further drive our decision to spend more time at Universal.

Those are great points. The overnight stays leaning towards Universal stays help them win their ROI while making a bigger dent on the competition. That is ultimately what the project is for. The resort is doubling its size. I am hoping we get some fun hotels and shopping/entertainment venues as they are going to put one on this property as well.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
From what I've heard about it, a big part of the problem is that it's basically a slow moving dark ride with an AR shooting gallery attached. I think some people will enjoy the shooting gallery aspect and thus like the ride, but it's a weird choice to build a Mario Kart ride that moves slowly. Plus, while shooting shells etc. is part of Mario Kart, it's not at all the focus of the game (they're just a means to an end to help you win the race), so the whole thing is a somewhat strange attempt at capturing the IP.
That was I think a problem. I actually like the concept of VR enhanced dark rides. Rat is a great example of that. I also, for a person who doesn't like roller coasters or heavy motion rides, love FoP and the VR aspect of it. Mario Kart seems to fall in between. It's supposed to be a race. That was always the fun for anyone who played the game, racing and beating your friends (and smashing them with a turtle shell i will admit was a big part of the fun.) But you don't get that true feeling of speed or racing out of the ride. If you wanted to make a VR based shooter, like buzz on steroids, i think it would be a success. But to me a Mario Kart type ride should have been more "racey." Maybe on the order of speed/motion of Dinosaur? You are not going to want to limit your rider base too much with height restrictions, but the race itself should play a big part in ride. I might be showing my age, but a VR based shooting ride based on Contra....someone will be shutting up and taking all my money.

They other problem I found with the ride, and the land in general, is that to truly enjoy it (of course YMMV and its a small sample size as we only had 12 or so people in our party when we went) is that it really seemed like you had to be "in" with Mario to really enjoy the land/rides. People who go to AK and visit Pandora all seem for the most part to be wowed by flight and the land itself. Visually it is stunning and the rides/land work, even with people who have no strong ties, or even had seen Avatar.

For our group in Tokyo, for the 2 of us that grew up playing all the mario titles, walking around the land, it was pretty cool. Seeing certain "characters" or land features brought me back to playing the game as a kid. Seeing the weird masked guys from SMB2 and the fire plants was pretty cool. However for someone who had no connection to the games, they were...meh. A couple people asked why the rocks had faces. Now the amount of hours I spend in a castle trying not to be smashed by those square rocks, i surely remember them. But to the rest of the group, there was no connection, certainly not the connection I have seen people have to Pandora.

Now maybe the new SMB movie helps generate more interest in the IP to people unfamiliar with it. And for people who did grow up playing mario, its a neat place to visit. Plus its part of a new park, so there is going to be some appeal just related to the newness of it. But I don't see the widespread appeal/draw that this is going to have (and I don't know a ton about the other Epic Park expansions, other than a planned Harry Potter expansion.) If people like Nintendo they will come, but is it going to make people who have no interest in SMB plan a vacation to go see it? It just didn't feel like it, and for those people it definitely didn't leave them with a feeling like they wanted to come back.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Now maybe the new SMB movie helps generate more interest in the IP to people unfamiliar with it. And for people who did grow up playing mario, its a neat place to visit. Plus its part of a new park, so there is going to be some appeal just related to the newness of it. But I don't see the widespread appeal/draw that this is going to have (and I don't know a ton about the other Epic Park expansions, other than a planned Harry Potter expansion.) If people like Nintendo they will come, but is it going to make people who have no interest in SMB plan a vacation to go see it? It just didn't feel like it, and for those people it definitely didn't leave them with a feeling like they wanted to come back.

Nintendo (and gaming in general) is a hugely underdeveloped IP the parks can utilize.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Mario will sell far more and connect with far more than Sunset Blvd, Muppets and MMRR, which for those paying attention, is more than half of DHS.

It will be more than suitable and fine.
 

JMcMahonEsq

Well-Known Member
Mario will sell far more and connect with far more than Sunset Blvd, Muppets and MMRR, which for those paying attention, is more than half of DHS.

It will be more than suitable and fine.
Wait muppets, one ride, and sunset is more than half of a park that includes galaxy’s edge, Toy Story land, RRC, ToT, and a a bunch of shows? I think you math is off
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Wait muppets, one ride, and sunset is more than half of a park that includes galaxy’s edge, Toy Story land, RRC, ToT, and a a bunch of shows? I think you math is off

Ahem. Do you know where RNR and Tower of Terror are located? That is why I said Sunset Blvd.

I think you don't know the park very well.

"A bunch of shows?" What daily operation is that? and Frozen sing along? Indy is one show.

You can also take the "lands" individually if not combined.

Mario is sitll more than suitable and more than half of DHS' lands individually.
 
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Andrew25

Well-Known Member
The effect that Epic Universe will have on Disney isn't that attendance at WDW will drop by 50% and half the attendance will just magically appear at EU. The effect is that new visitors who have no interest in WDW/theme parks, but might be willing to visit Universal just on the IPs themselves.

What Disney should be scared of are WDW/Disney fans who will now tackle a day or 2 at Universal, sacrificing 1 or 2 park days.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Nintendo (and gaming in general) is a hugely underdeveloped IP the parks can utilize.

Video games are a bit strange for theme parks, though, and really in general -- there are some major differences between video games and traditional media IP that I think a lot of people just don't grasp (I've been playing games my whole life, starting with the NES). A lot of games wouldn't translate well to a theme park land in general, and it's also difficult to capture what people actually enjoy about most games in a theme park environment/attraction. We're already seeing this problem with the Mario Kart ride.

For example, Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty are probably the biggest video game IPs at the moment (at least in terms of overall revenue/profits, and not counting sports titles), but neither of those would translate well into a theme park.

Nintendo was a very good get for Universal in that Mario and Zelda should work well as theme park lands (not to mention Pokemon, but I wouldn't call that a video game IP), but I'm not sure there's that much untapped potential for video games as a whole in the theme park realm.
 

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Video games are a bit strange for theme parks, though, and really in general -- there are some major differences between video games and traditional media IP that I think a lot of people just don't grasp. I say this as someone who has played video games his entire life from NES on up to PS5. A lot of games wouldn't translate well to a theme park land in general, and it's also difficult to capture what people actually enjoy about most games in a theme park environment. We're already seeing this problem with the Mario Kart ride.

For example, Grand Theft Auto or Call of Duty are probably the biggest video game IPs (at least in terms of sales), but neither of those would translate well into a theme park.

Nintendo was a very good get for Universal in that Mario and Zelda should work well as theme park lands (not to mention Pokemon, but I wouldn't call that a video game IP), but I'm not sure there's that much untapped potential for video games as a whole in the theme park realm.

I'm not expecting every video game to be utilized, but Nintendo themselves have a lot of games that could be translated into games.

What people love about Super Mario is the ability to connect coins, and interact with characters... the land itself offers those opportunities. I do think it's a miss that Mario Kart doesn't have a "fast" section, but it also needed to feature an interactive element like it currently has.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I'm not expecting every video game to be utilized, but Nintendo themselves have a lot of games that could be translated into games.

What people love about Super Mario is the ability to connect coins, and interact with characters... the land itself offers those opportunities. I do think it's a miss that Mario Kart doesn't have a "fast" section, but it also needed to feature an interactive element like it currently has.

Yep, Nintendo absolutely does, which is why they were a good get for Universal. They're probably the best option period for theme parks in the video game realm. I personally think Mario's overall popularity is a bit overblown for multiple reasons (there's a lot of context/nuance related to video games themselves and the Mario IP specifically that people seem to be missing), but not going to rehash that discussion. Plus, the overall level of popularity doesn't really matter as long as it hits the right baseline, and Mario is certainly popular enough to be a successful theme park land.
 

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