How will Universal's Epic Universe effect Disney?

[JusticeDisney]

The thing is all 11 are ones people will want to ride.

The other park has like 7 people actually want to do and the rest look like Bob Iger's diapers.


But you know, people are really dying to see the garbage state and excitement of Carousel of Progress, PeopleMover, Jungle Cruise and one of three spinners that are mostly the same or the Fantasyland dark rides that are not well taken care of and ever so charming to wait in a queue for.


Gosh a 120 bucks per person for that or 40 per person that many will be tacking on to make it a third Universal Day? Decsisions descisions.

Just curious, how do you know people will want to ride all 11?

 

[celluloid]

Just curious, how do you know people will want to ride all 11?

I don't of course for individuals, but "people" in general towards the demand. I did not say everyone.
The same logic would also apply for 27 winning over 11.

Saying the sheer number is better is the same thing.

Quality over quantity. And if you think the current roster of Magic Kingdom attractions are going to be better than most of the 11 coming. Well, rough sell to the general public that knows Universal is opening an all new theme park.

I love Peoplemover, I wish it was kept up and plussed. I love Carosuel of Progress, but the love for it is not really strong enough to compete. Jungle Cruise, the movie could not save it. Spinners...yeah. Passe in comparison.

 

[JusticeDisney]

I don't of course for individuals, but "people" in general towards the demand. I did not say everyone.
The same logic would also apply for 27 winning over 11.

Saying the sheer number is better is the same thing.

Quality over quantity. And if you think the current roster of Magic Kingdom attractions are going to be better than most of the 11 coming. Well, rough sell to the general public that knows Universal is opening an all new theme park.

I love Peoplemover, I wish it was kept up and plussed. I love Carosuel of Progress, but the love for it is not really strong enough to compete. Jungle Cruise, the movie could not save it. Spinners...yeah. Passe in comparison.

Yeah, I don’t have an opinion on Epic because I obviously haven’t experienced any of the rides yet. From what I have read about what’s coming, though, I’d being willing to bet that not all 11 will be winners. That said, MK has far more than 7 rides which I (and judging by attendance a lot of other people) find to be a lot of fun.

Don’t get me wrong, I am certain that Epic will be pretty great, but if you think it will ever be any real competition to MK then, as I recently heard someone say, rough sell.

 

[celluloid]

Yeah, I don’t have an opinion on Epic because I obviously haven’t experienced any of the rides yet. From what I have read about what’s coming, though, I’d being willing to bet that not all 11 will be winners. That said, MK has far more than 7 rides which I (and judging by attendance a lot of other people) find to be a lot of fun.

Don’t get me wrong, I am certain that Epic will be pretty great, but if you think it will ever be any real competition to MK then, as I recently heard someone say, rough sell.

One thing a lot of people are not forgetting it is not an even dynamic shift. Disney's business model is becoming closer to Disney's. Pay a little more incentive to play an entire day more.

Now that Universal will have a third park to entice people. It will be easy to sell people on a third or fourth day add on(or more for those that can afford to take their time) and if down to it. A family may add 40 bucks a person to see Epic Universe for 120 for the things you just did a couple of years ago or have not as much interest in. This will be even more tempting and common for those that like Volcano Bay as well.

I don't think Epic Universe will top MK, and at the end of the day it does not need to for Disney to be concerned. It is going to be another dent.

People that say that Disney is not "concerned" or worried or whatever word they want to use is semantics. As a business they care about any dollars that they want spent there vs elsewhere.

Macdonalds has 37 billion sale transactions a year, and Burger King has a 10 billion a year, but they still care, even on a corporate level when a BK is moving in nearby or offers something.

It is not a race to claim or remain first place, it is a Pinata with candy that the kids want to grab as much as they can.

The people who use terms like real competition or "they are not worired" are people who are a bit too emotional for how business works.

I did not say only 7 rides at MK are fun, those are the headliners in a rough figure. A lot of the rest could be fun, but they are in poor shape and no signs of them getting any better.

 

[JusticeDisney]

One thing a lot of people are not forgetting it is not an even dynamic shift. Disney's business model is becoming closer to Disney's. Pay a little more incentive to play an entire day more.

Now that Universal will have a third park to entice people. It will be easy to sell people on a third or fourth day add on(or more for those that can afford to take their time) and if down to it. A family may add 40 bucks a person to see Epic Universe for 120 for the things you just did a couple of years ago or have not as much interest in. This will be even more tempting and common for those that like Volcano Bay as well.

I don't think Epic Universe will top MK, and at the end of the day it does not need to for Disney to be concerned. It is going to be another dent.

People that say that Disney is not "concerned" or worried or whatever word they want to use is semantics. As a business they care about any dollars that they want spent there vs elsewhere.

Macdonalds has 37 billion sale transactions a year, and Burger King has a 10 billion a year, but they still care, even on a corporate level when a BK is moving in nearby or offers something.

It is not a race to claim or remain first place, it is a Pinata with candy that the kids want to grab as much as they can.

The people who use terms like real competition or "they are not worired" are people who are a bit too emotional for how business works.

I agree with all of that. No business ever wants to lose even a dollar to a competitor. That said, it’s inevitable. At the end of the day, however, Uni is a big time second fiddle to Disney.

 

[celluloid]

I agree with all of that. No business ever wants to lose even a dollar to a competitor. That said, it’s inevitable. At the end of the day, however, Uni is a big time second fiddle to Disney.

It depends on where.
The game of business is to lose less dollars whenever possible. 40 bucks for that extra day at Uni and just staying at Uni's hotels instead....owie.

That is where competition comes into play. Not when you are nearly second place.
DCA is below most of Universal's Parks. it is right across the walking path of a few hundred feet or less from the second most attended theme park in the world. And it gets stomped. It has had billions pumped in and most quality has often been rubbish, and it shows in both the industry accolades and lack of attendance.

MK would have a lot further to fall, but it is not impossible as it has already happened where parks have surpassed them.

 

[JusticeDisney]

It depends on where.
The game of business is to lose less dollars whenever possible. That is where competition comes into play. Not when you are nearly second place.
DCA is below most of Universal's Parks. it is right across the walking path of a few hundred feet or less from the second most attended theme park in the world. And it gets stomped. It has had billions pumped in and most quality has been rubbish, and it shows in both the industry accolades and lack of attendance.

Yeah, I’m only talking about WDW. Could Uni overtake it some day? I suppose it’s possible but I wouldn’t ever bet on it. The sky is falling folks have been predicting WDW’s demise for a long time, all the while it just continues to dominate in attendance.

 

[celluloid]

Yeah, I’m only talking about WDW. Could Uni overtake it some day? I suppose it’s possible but I wouldn’t ever bet on it. The sky is falling folks have been predicting WDW’s demise for a long time, all the while it just continues to dominate in attendance.

Tradition is certainly deep. I disagree though. It has fallen and Uni has surpassed three of their four theme parks by the attendance numbers.

So yeah. MK...ok. The old halo effect as they used to call it.

But AK, DHS and Epcot have all been surpassed.

Then people try and toss the limited attendance excuse. Attendance was not limited to the amount people think. At the end of the day the cause or decisions of the company does not matter. The results do.

Uni had more attendance than three of the four WDW parks in the latest reports.

I will say this October will be very interesting for me to see the TEA index.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Yeah, I don’t have an opinion on Epic because I obviously haven’t experienced any of the rides yet. From what I have read about what’s coming, though, I’d being willing to bet that not all 11 will be winners. That said, MK has far more than 7 rides which I (and judging by attendance a lot of other people) find to be a lot of fun.

Don’t get me wrong, I am certain that Epic will be pretty great, but if you think it will ever be any real competition to MK then, as I recently heard someone say, rough sell.

We already know quite a bit about the rides too and we know all 11 aren’t going to be E ticket attractions.

Nintendo will be a coaster (E ticket), a VR dark ride (D), and a Peoplemover style ride {B). Monsters will have a kouka arm ride (E), and a small family coaster (C). The hub will have a dueling coaster (E), and a flat ride (B). Harry Potter is a bit of a mystery still but safe to say E ticket. Dragons will have a coaster (E), a boat ride (C), and a flat ride (B).

So likely 5 amazing rides, 3 quality rides, and 3 meh rides.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Tradition is certainly deep. I disagree though. It has fallen and Uni has surpassed three of their four theme parks by the attendance numbers.

So yeah. MK...ok. The old halo effect as they used to call it.

But AK, DHS and Epcot have all been surpassed.

Then people try and toss the limited attendance excuse. Attendance was not limited to the amount people think. At the end of the day the cause or decisions of the company does not matter. The results do.

Uni had more attendance than three of the four WDW parks in the latest reports.

I will say this October will be very interesting for me to see the TEA index.

I put zero weight in 2021’s numbers. Zero. The world was still upside down. It’s not an apples to apples comparison. WDW was closed longer than Uni and had more restrictions re masking, etc. In addition to that, people with little ones who might be more inclined to visit WDW over Uni might have been hesitant to travel because there were no vaccines for kids at the time, whereas Uni’s clientele was probably more inclined to get back out in the world. I get that a lot of that is speculation, but that’s my point - the world was still so weird that you can’t measure much of anything for that year. And even if you do go by that year, WDW still doubled Uni in total attendance.

I do agree with you that the attendance numbers for 2022 will be very interesting and a much more telling guide.

 

[JusticeDisney]

We already know quite a bit about the rides too and we know all 11 aren’t going to be E ticket attractions.

Nintendo will be a coaster (E ticket), a VR dark ride (D), and a Peoplemover style ride {B). Monsters will have a kouka arm ride (E), and a small family coaster (C). The hub will have a dueling coaster (E), and a flat ride (B). Harry Potter is a bit of a mystery still but safe to say E ticket. Dragons will have a coaster (E), a boat ride (C), and a flat ride (B).

So likely 5 amazing rides, 3 quality rides, and 3 meh rides.

That sounds like a fair assessment.

 

[celluloid]

So likely 5 amazing rides, 3 quality rides, and 3 meh rides.

What rides would you say are "amazing" at MK?

Like you would put HM in Quality right? I love it. But I assume you would have Peter Pan and Pooh as Meh rides.

It seems like an interesting rating system you have there.


Its also an all-new theme park, it kind of outweighs sheer numbers. People like new.

 

[UNCgolf]

We already know quite a bit about the rides too and we know all 11 aren’t going to be E ticket attractions.

Nintendo will be a coaster (E ticket), a VR dark ride (D), and a Peoplemover style ride {B). Monsters will have a kouka arm ride (E), and a small family coaster (C). The hub will have a dueling coaster (E), and a flat ride (B). Harry Potter is a bit of a mystery still but safe to say E ticket. Dragons will have a coaster (E), a boat ride (C), and a flat ride (B).

So likely 5 amazing rides, 3 quality rides, and 3 meh rides.

The Nintendo attraction you've labeled as a D is awful.

 

[celluloid]

The Nintendo attraction you've labeled as a D is awful.

Have you been on the one in Osaka or Los Angelas?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

What rides would you say are "amazing" at MK?

Like you would put HM in Quality right? I love it. But I assume you would have Peter Pan and Pooh as Meh rides.

It seems like an interesting rating system you have there.


It’s also an all-new theme park, it kind of outweighs sheer numbers. People like new.

I’d put Space, Splash (Rip), Big Thunder, and Tron as Es… Haunted, 7 dwarfs, and Pirates as Ds… IASW, Jungle, Mermaid, Peoplemover as Cs… Dumbo, Autopia, Train, etc as Bs

Even within those categories there’s differences though, I go to IOA for Velocicoaster and Hagrids, Hulk as a nice third ride… that’s all I “need” to do there. Parks just need a couple must do rides to make it worth going, all the secondary rides are just icing.

 

[UNCgolf]

Have you been on the one in Osaka or Los Angelas?

Not personally, but I have friends who have been on the one in Los Angeles. They uniformly said it was a bad ride, and an especially bad one for Mario Kart. One of them has a 9 year old and even the 9 year old hated it.

 

[celluloid]

I’d put Space, Splash (Rip), Big Thunder, and Tron as Es… Haunted, 7 dwarfs, and Pirates as Ds… IASW, Jungle, Mermaid, Peoplemover as Cs… Dumbo, Autopia, Train, etc as Bs

I asked about your ranking the same way your ranked the unopened Epic attractions. Not the letters.

The Amazing, the quality and the meh.

So since you could do those at Epic. I want to see how you would rank the MK ones?

 

[celluloid]

Not personally, but I have friends who have been on the one in Los Angeles. They uniformly said it was a bad ride, and an especially bad one for Mario Kart. One of them has a 9 year old and even the 9 year old hated it.

Unanimously*
Dang, wait until they ride Runaway Railway.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I asked about your ranking the same way your ranked the unopened Epic attractions. Not the letters.

The Amazing, the quality and the meh.

So since you could do those at Epic. I want to see how you would rank the MK ones?

I put letters next to every ride at Epic also but…5 E (amazing) 3 D/C (quality) and 3 Bs (meh)

 

[celluloid]

I put letters next to every ride at Epic also but…5 E (amazing) 3 D/C (quality) and 3 Bs (meh)

Well the same number of amazing's then. That's pretty good for a park just opening and one that just added an amazing 50 years later to also equal five.

It sounds like EPIC will have the must dos that you say parks require. It could use more icing, but that is what expansion pad and following years are for.