Hotel occupancy for the first half of 2014

[slappy magoo]

So Universal is trying to get people to spend more time there. And that is bad because? Theme Park growth is bad because?

The difference is Universal wants your time, Disney just wants your money.

Universal is far more interested in becoming a vacation destination than Disney is concerned. Universal is investing in their parks and focusing on growth.
While Disney is barely maintaining their parks. Hollywood Studios is sad, Epcot is sad, MK hub is being destroyed! Yup, I said it, destroyed! and dont even get me started on the "world class" animatronic that has been broken for 7 years in AK!
Disney quality is getting worst every year. DVC will take over because it is quick money, cuts on entertainment and recreation, and "$60+ packages."
I'm still trying to wrap my head around 2 table service credits for lunch at Biergarten and reserved seats for the Eat to the Beat concerts, that are hardly ever crowded.

Was Disney the first multi day theme park destination? sure. So of course any company that followed the idea of a "multi day theme park destination" appears to "copy" them.
But Universal is definitely heading in a far better direction than Disney.

OK two things:

1: Universal wants your money, period, full stop. They don't want "your time," except that by co-opting as much of your time as possible, they're in a better position to get more of your money.

Disney's always wanted your time too, in order to take your money. That's why tickets are priced as they are, that's why they have a whole shopping and entertainment center, that's why they have buses take you to and from the airport, that's why they built water parks to rival Wet n' Wild, and (in theory) a movie-based park to compete with Universal and a place where you can see real live animals etc etc. By giving you a little bit of everything, there's no need to go anywhere else, and you can't even if you wanted to because you didn't rent a car since WDW picked you up at MCO. Uni is following WDW's lead but with one sadly unique addition to the mix - building attractions people are champing at the bit to experience, versus NFL, which by and large has fans running the gamut from "meh" to "cool" but very few "Wows!" and hardly any "holy moleys!"

2: You're right, Universal IS far more interested in becoming a vacation destination than Disney is concerned. But that's because Disney has been a vacation destination far longer than Uni; unlike Uni, WDW doesn't need to become a vacation destination (but they do need to keep expanding and innovating in ways to make people continue to consider it a vacation destination). In a way, the WDW vs. Uni competition is a bit like the Cola wars in the early 80s where Pepsi slowly started enhancing their market share, mostly from taking away from other smaller cola companies but also peeling a bit from Coke, and then with one slick ad campaign, boom, they're on top, and Coke was scrambling to figure out how to change things back to the way they were (does that make New Fantasyland "the new Coke?")

In the past, Uni was happy stealing a day or two or three away from a WDW trip, but now that's not enough, they want people to spend as much time on their property as possible and at most think about stealing a day or two away for other Orlando attractions. And good for them. WDW was coasting for quite a while, giving up on Potter only to see it become THE thing everyone wants to do lit some kind of fire under their keisters, just apparently not a big enough one, as they seem to insist on doing just enough to say "See, we're doing stuff!" But far too much of that stuff is based on shopping and housing, not in the parks, and that short-sightedness will come to bite them, hard.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

OK two things:

1: Universal wants your money, period, full stop. They don't want "your time," except that by co-opting as much of your time as possible, they're in a better position to get more of your money.

Disney's always wanted your time too, in order to take your money. That's why tickets are priced as they are, that's why they have a whole shopping and entertainment center, that's why they have buses take you to and from the airport, that's why they built water parks to rival Wet n' Wild, and (in theory) a movie-based park to compete with Universal and a place where you can see real live animals etc etc. By giving you a little bit of everything, there's no need to go anywhere else, and you can't even if you wanted to because you didn't rent a car since WDW picked you up at MCO. Uni is following WDW's lead but with one sadly unique addition to the mix - building attractions people are champing at the bit to experience, versus NFL, which by and large has fans running the gamut from "meh" to "cool" but very few "Wows!" and hardly any "holy moleys!"

2: You're right, Universal IS far more interested in becoming a vacation destination than Disney is concerned. But that's because Disney has been a vacation destination far longer than Uni; unlike Uni, WDW doesn't need to become a vacation destination (but they do need to keep expanding and innovating in ways to make people continue to consider it a vacation destination). In a way, the WDW vs. Uni competition is a bit like the Cola wars in the early 80s where Pepsi slowly started enhancing their market share, mostly from taking away from other smaller cola companies but also peeling a bit from Coke, and then with one slick ad campaign, boom, they're on top, and Coke was scrambling to figure out how to change things back to the way they were (does that make New Fantasyland "the new Coke?")

In the past, Uni was happy stealing a day or two or three away from a WDW trip, but now that's not enough, they want people to spend as much time on their property as possible and at most think about stealing a day or two away for other Orlando attractions. And good for them. WDW was coasting for quite a while, giving up on Potter only to see it become THE thing everyone wants to do lit some kind of fire under their keisters, just apparently not a big enough one, as they seem to insist on doing just enough to say "See, we're doing stuff!" But far too much of that stuff is based on shopping and housing, not in the parks, and that short-sightedness will come to bite them, hard.

What? I said Universal wants your time, you disagreed but then agree and said exactly what I was trying to say in your last paragraph.

Maybe I wasn't clear or you misunderstood what I was saying, your last paragraph is exactly what I was saying. Of course the end goal of any business is to make money but Universal is actual taking that money and putting it back in the parks, not just their pockets. Disney continues to cut back.

I should have said Universal is far more interested in BEING a vacation destination, not becoming. My mistake. Of course Disney is already vacation destination but they don't care about their parks or guest like they used to. Disney only cares about shareholders. Disney builds one ride here or there and tries to ride that waves for 10 years before building something else.

And I stand by my statement that Disney is focused on getting your money. They have put more effort into DVC than anything these past couple years.
They don't care if you show up but once you buy into DVC, they have your money and there is nothing you can do about.
This is the year of upcharges. They keep finding ways to put a price on things.
Not to mention the discount cutbacks. They took away the most popular resort from Free Dining. The new room discount was literally unavailable for many resorts within an 1 hour of being released and I just read on the Disboards that many Military families are being told that the military discounts are booked up as well. I'm sorry, but there is no way Military discounts should have a limit.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

OK two things:

1: Universal wants your money, period, full stop.
.

So its not my body or mind they are after?

 

[slappy magoo]

What? I said Universal wants your time, you disagreed but then agree and said exactly what I was trying to say in your last paragraph.

Maybe I wasn't clear or you misunderstood what I was saying, your last paragraph is exactly what I was saying.

I'll clarify - Uni is now doing what WDW is doing and has been doing for decades, trying to co-opt as much of your time as possible in order to get as much of your money as possible; Uni is just currently doing it better. Therefore to say "Universal wants your time, Disney just wants your money" strikes me as naive, like Universal really cares about you as a person whereas WDW doesn't. Neither of them cares, it's just that WDW has been coasting on a rep and a structure it's had for a while whereas Uni is trying new things to become more on par.

 

[slappy magoo]

So its not my body or mind they are after?

Apparently Uni wants your time. Uni thinks you're very special and would like to enjoy long walks on the shore with you, maybe an all-night hate-watch Twilight movie marathon where you can eat ice cream and talk about Hollywood gossip and hey put that wallet away this vacation is on them, because they want your time and not your money. Unlike that mean old Walt Disney World that will just take advantage of you for your money and leave you broke and alone like a not-very-bright former child star after a weekend Scientology retreat.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Apparently Uni wants your time. Uni thinks you're very special and would like to enjoy long walks on the shore with you, maybe an all-night hate-watch Twilight movie marathon where you can eat ice cream and talk about Hollywood gossip and hey put that wallet away this vacation is on them, because they want your time and not your money. Unlike that mean old Walt Disney World that will just take advantage of you for your money and leave you broke and alone like a not-very-bright former child star after a weekend Scientology retreat.

That Disney is a two timing

 

[Mike S]

When Avatar opens, Animal Kingdom will be nearing 20 years old. The only additions in that time? Kali River Rapids (within a year of park opening, so it's more of a Phase 2 than anything), Chester and Hester's Dinorama (we all know how everyone feels about that), Festival of the Lion King, and Expedition Everest. 19 years. Tokyo DisneySea has had more expansion in 13 years, and that park opened to a $4 billion budget. Hard to expand a park that's near-perfect.



They have for at least 20 years. EuroDisney failed? Let it sit. California Adventure is a dud? Let it sit. Walt Disney Studios Paris is a dud too? Let it sit. Harry Potter is stealing guests? Stand pat. Fix it in 5-10 years. You'll note that the only resort which hasn't stagnated in recent memory is Tokyo's. The Oriental Land Company expands and expands, without so much as a Universal park within 3 hours. It pays off, and they keep investing and cashing out.



Buzz has been atrocious for as long as I can remember. Expedition Everest is finally getting back in shape, after 5 years where nearly every effect was in pieces. I've seen things break on Pirates of the Caribbean that shouldn't be broken while guests are in eyeshot.



Yes. Could have been done cheaper, but it'll pay off.



Little Mermaid isn't terrible. It's a fair cut above your usual Fantasyland fare. If and when lines cool down on the Mine Train, it's a pretty good ride.



Part of that is that Disney has a thing for using actual AAs. I was extremely impressed with the facades and shops in WWoHP. Wasn't terribly impressed by Forbidden Journey. The queue was spectacular; the ride is little better than Soarin' with nausea and some puppets. I wasn't able to ride the Gringotts ride, but I'm getting 3D Mummy vibes from it.

Bottom line is, screens are cheap. When you're building physical sets, you'll rack up a budget a lot more quickly. That aside, WDI is still less efficient than Universal Creative. WWoHP has more to offer in terms of detail when you exclude rides from the equation.

I just have to set some things straight here. Yes, Little Mermaid isn't terrible. No, Forbidden Journey is not just full of puppets. They may not be as advanced as Disney's best work but they are animatronics nonetheless and Gringotts is full of very detailed physical sets. Pretty much everything that's not a screen is an elaborate set.

 

[slappy magoo]

That Disney is a two timing

Disney made you no promises. Now put on that dress Disney likes and start dancing, you're Disney's bottom-dollar baby now. Why couldn't you have stayed with that nice Universal? All it ever wanted to do was spend TIME with you.

Lady Minnie, I'd love to take you home with me
But I've got a wife, and a room at BLT.
I've got reservations, for lunch at BoG
And I've got no time to share with IoA or Uni
I know you'd never act with me alone if you're in love with me
So how do I compare to E-tickets during extra magic nights?
Was I all right?
Is the Yeti on tonight?
Lady Minnie?

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

I'll clarify - Uni is now doing what WDW is doing and has been doing for decades, trying to co-opt as much of your time as possible in order to get as much of your money as possible; Uni is just currently doing it better. Therefore to say "Universal wants your time, Disney just wants your money" strikes me as naive, like Universal really cares about you as a person whereas WDW doesn't. Neither of them cares, it's just that WDW has been coasting on a rep and a structure it's had for a while whereas Uni is trying new things to become more on par.

You might want to reread my post because you still don't understand why I said what I said.
I can repeat myself if you'd like?
Of course time = money. Of course the goal of any business is to make money. I did say that in my previous.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Disney made you no promises. Now put on that dress Disney likes and start dancing, you're Disney's bottom-dollar baby now. Why couldn't you have stayed with that nice Universal? All it ever wanted to do was spend TIME with you.

Lady Minnie, I'd love to take you home with me
But I've got a wife, and a room at BLT.
I've got reservations, for lunch at BoG
And I've got no time to share with IoA or Uni
I know you'd never act with me alone if you're in love with me
So how do I compare to E-tickets during extra magic nights?
Was I all right?
Is the Yeti on tonight?
Lady Minnie?

To be fair its attractions were bigger and more impressive.

 

[slappy magoo]

You might want to reread my post because you still don't understand why I said what I said.
I can repeat myself if you'd like?
Of course time = money. Of course the goal of any business is to make money. I did say that in my previous.

No I read it, and you're right for the most part I agreed with what you wrote, you just took it as my disagreeing-then-agreeing with you because I took umbrage with the notion that "Universal wants your time, Disney just wants your money." And I was clarifying - Universal wants your money, and they're willing to invest in things that occupy more of your time in order to get your money. Believe me, if Uni had some magic wand that would make you fork over money without investing in their parks, they would. And for years WDW had such a magic wand because their structure was already in place, they just had to maintain it and occasionally expand, but they did neither and now they risk their structure not being enough.

In short, I agreed with you pretty much all the way, except for the time-money comment, and I also wanted to point out that Uni HAS to grow to become a destination whereas WDW already has grown and already IS a vacation destination.

 

[slappy magoo]

To be fair its attractions were bigger and more impressive.

Really? No props for the Marillion B-side reference?

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

No I read it, and you're right for the most part I agreed with what you wrote, you just took it as my disagreeing-then-agreeing with you because I took umbrage with the notion that "Universal wants your time, Disney just wants your money." And I was clarifying - Universal wants your money, and they're willing to invest in things that occupy more of your time in order to get your money. Believe me, if Uni had some magic wand that would make you fork over money without investing in their parks, they would. And for years WDW had such a magic wand because their structure was already in place, they just had to maintain it and occasionally expand, but they did neither and now they risk their structure not being enough.

In short, I agreed with you pretty much all the way, except for the time-money comment, and I also wanted to point out that Uni HAS to grow to become a destination whereas WDW already has grown and already IS a vacation destination.

Again like I said in my previous post, I should have said "being" not "becoming" a vacation destination. Disney brags about size but has stopped growing and can barely maintain.
WDW is letting its rides look like hell and they've stopped caring that their guest can see when things are broken. It bothers me because I love Disney parks.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

This one was perhaps the more obvious Disney choice from that era. But big up all the same

Maybe it was infatuation or the thrill of the ToT
Maybe Deluxe resorts were always beyond my reach and staying offsite was playing safe
But was that love in your eye I saw or the reflection of mine train?
I'll never really know for sure, you never really gave me fastpass
Give me fastpass, won't you get me out that line!

 

[BigTxEars]

We need to break out the giant foam sumo wrestling suits to settle this, nothing else will

Disney is THE vacation destination in Orlando, number don't have bias they just are what they are.

Uni wants to draw more from that pool than they have in the past, thus the build up. They also want draw folks who might not care about Disney to Orlando. Thus the buildup.

Disney is smart enough to know that the folks who would not travel to Orlando for Disney but would for Uni might just visit Disney "since they are there anyways". Thus Disney sees a dual purpose to build, keep the current folks happy and give new folks a reason to come check them out.

Again we as guest win

Uni is the new kid on the block, and as such they have to prove themselves. It's no wonder they are being as aggressive as they are. Good for all of us I say! But they are not the juggernaut that WDW is nor will they be in my lifetime IMO. But again that should only drive them harder and we win again. Not sure why anyone would root for either WDW or Uni and against the other.

Potter has been a great IP for Uni, they have used it very well. Star Wars is the only IP that could rival and beat it for turns at the gate I think, and now that Disney has that IP....well I for one hope they duke it out for years to come using Potter vs Stat Wars.

 

[BigTxEars]

Again like I said in my previous post, I should have said "being" not "becoming" a vacation destination. Disney brags about size but has stopped growing and can barely maintain.
WDW is letting its rides look like hell and they've stopped caring that their guest can see when things are broken. It bothers me because I love Disney parks.

How has Disney stopped growing? They from their resort rooms to their parks they are adding on. You can say they are not growing fast enough but you can't say they have stopped growing IMO.

Ripsaw Falls may be my favorite ride in all of Orlando, but Splash Mountain is looking much better than Ripsaw these days. Ripsaw is not in bad shape but it needs at least a light overhaul, Splash looked great last month, I did not see a thing out of order or needing touching up

I know you mentioned Buzz earlier and it does need a overhaul as well. I would guess/hope that will come along soon. They started working on Astro Orbiter and the People Mover when we were there last month. Maybe Buzz is next, not sure. But overall the parks and rides looked great last month IMO.

Different subject but Small World must be a nightmare to keep going, there are a ton of moving parts in that thing

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

basic maintenance, the new growth.

 

[BigTxEars]

No I read it, and you're right for the most part I agreed with what you wrote, you just took it as my disagreeing-then-agreeing with you because I took umbrage with the notion that "Universal wants your time, Disney just wants your money." And I was clarifying - Universal wants your money, and they're willing to invest in things that occupy more of your time in order to get your money. Believe me, if Uni had some magic wand that would make you fork over money without investing in their parks, they would. And for years WDW had such a magic wand because their structure was already in place, they just had to maintain it and occasionally expand, but they did neither and now they risk their structure not being enough.

In short, I agreed with you pretty much all the way, except for the time-money comment, and I also wanted to point out that Uni HAS to grow to become a destination whereas WDW already has grown and already IS a vacation destination.

I agree, WDW is much more of a "Resort" destination than Uni currently. A week at Uni is too long for us we found out, a week at Disney is not. That has a lot to do with more than just the parks really to us. Everybody travels differently but to us Uni has a long way to grow before we spend a full week there again. A third gate, a decent water park and more choices in resort rooms and restaurants would be things we would look for. And a nice fireworks show as well, I know that is harder for Uni to do than Disney due to their location but the possibilities of a fireworks show over the castle at IOA makes me drool.

 

[Mike S]

How has Disney stopped growing? They from their resort rooms to their parks they are adding on. You can say they are not growing fast enough but you can't say they have stopped growing IMO.

Ripsaw Falls may be my favorite ride in all of Orlando, but Splash Mountain is looking much better than Ripsaw these days. Ripsaw is not in bad shape but it needs at least a light overhaul, Splash looked great last month, I did not see a thing out of order or needing touching up

I know you mentioned Buzz earlier and it does need a overhaul as well. I would guess/hope that will come along soon. They started working on Astro Orbiter and the People Mover when we were there last month. Maybe Buzz is next, not sure. But overall the parks and rides looked great last month IMO.

Different subject but Small World must be a nightmare to keep going, there are a ton of moving parts in that thing

Ripsaw Falls needs a 'light' overhaul? It needs a HUGE one. It's literally like floating through a warehouse with some Dudley Do-Right props lying around. It's especially disappointing with Popeye and Jurassic Park right next to it which are both so much better done.

I agree, WDW is much more of a "Resort" destination than Uni currently. A week at Uni is too long for us we found out, a week at Disney is not. That has a lot to do with more than just the parks really to us. Everybody travels differently but to us Uni has a long way to grow before we spend a full week there again. A third gate, a decent water park and more choices in resort rooms and restaurants would be things we would look for. And a nice fireworks show as well, I know that is harder for Uni to do than Disney due to their location but the possibilities of a fireworks show over the castle at IOA makes me drool.

Luckily that all seems to be on the way. As well as a new show for Universal to replace the Cinematic Spectacular as hinted at by insiders.

 

[BigTxEars]

Ripsaw Falls needs a 'light' overhaul? It needs a HUGE one. It's literally like floating through a warehouse with some Dudley Do-Right props lying around. It's especially disappointing with Popeye and Jurassic Park right next to it which are both so much better done.
Luckily that all seems to be on the way. As well as a new show for Universal to replace the Cinematic Spectacular as hinted at by insiders.

Hey now don't be bagging on Ripsaw! I know it's not as well done as Splash but I prefer it, not sure why but I just really enjoy it. It needs some paint and a cleaning and it will be fine I think.

Good to hear about the fireworks, they current offering at Uni is not very good IMO.