HKDL gets new castle, frozen land and marvel land.

[Supersnow84]

The last point is a bit confusing to me

It says they won’t need investment from LegCo and can expand on their own but aren’t all investments done as join my investments from Disney and LegCo? Is the park even allowed to say “we have the 5 billion HKD we need so we are gonna go ahead we just need you to sign off on the permits”

If so is that really a benefit other than just a “show of strength” as it seems LegCo is happy to help Disneyland these days as ocean park is circling the drain

 

[616.1314]

The last point is a bit confusing to me

It says they won’t need investment from LegCo and can expand on their own but aren’t all investments done as join my investments from Disney and LegCo? Is the park even allowed to say “we have the 5 billion HKD we need so we are gonna go ahead we just need you to sign off on the permits”

If so is that really a benefit other than just a “show of strength” as it seems LegCo is happy to help Disneyland these days as ocean park is circling the drain

I think not all investments are joint

When the park is able to make money, it can expand on its own too

From what I recall, IME was build from revenues over 2012 - 2014 (the three years when HKDL managed to generate profits

 

[Untitled-Man]

I think not all investments are joint

When the park is able to make money, it can expand on its own too

From what I recall, IME was build from revenues over 2012 - 2014 (the three years when HKDL managed to generate profits

What’s IME?

 

[Aramar]

What’s IME?

I think it means Iron an Experience

 

[LameBoi]

Is the Explorer’s Lodge also a resort project and not a joint venture? I believe I previously heard that the resort carries debt from constructing it.

Anyways this news, if true, is fantastic. Hopefully the resort can grow to be self sustaining. They may not need government money in the short term, but further government capital injections and joint ventures would do wonders to accelerate growth and fully build out/expand the park.

 

[BrianLo]

While they should still focus on the parks, I wonder if the government will look to OLC and follow suit with a ship in the next decade.

A terminal seemingly could be attached to the current resort pier and 7 day land and sea (3 park/4DCL or 4 park / 3DCL itineraries) would be a huge boone. It seems like a less cost intensive way of moving up a pseudo park in some ways without actually moving up a park (which they are in no position to do).

 

[Supersnow84]

It’s interesting that while the increased attendance is good (I think we can safely say it’s above 7.4 but below 8) it still barely more than half of Shanghai’s attendance when HK is arguably the better park

I guess Shanghai never had to claw back an initial flawed reputation but I wonder what is that sauce that HK lacks considering it’s still the vast outlier in attendance numbers of the 6 magic kingdoms

 

[marni1971]

I guess Shanghai never had to claw back an initial flawed reputation but I wonder what is that sauce that HK lacks considering it’s still the vast outlier in attendance numbers of the 6 magic kingdoms

Good question. If it’s not ease of access (where it surely scores well) it must be perceived reputation. It’s a great more-than-a-day park very near to a fantastic city with wonderful cast. Personally I’d take another dark ride in Fantasyland, a decent E on the Tomorrowland plot and something pirates, E and wet on the Adventureland plot and it would be near perfect for its aim.

 

[Supersnow84]

Good question. If it’s not ease of access (where it surely scores well) it must be perceived reputation. It’s a great more-than-a-day park very near to a fantastic city with wonderful cast. Personally I’d take another dark ride in Fantasyland, a decent E on the Tomorrowland plot and something pirates, E and wet on the Adventureland plot and it would be near perfect for its aim.

We can talk about what it lack’s definitely but I don’t think that alone is fair considering its ride count falls into a similar range to Shanghai and Paris. Like people do seem to forget that Paris as the core Disneyland isn’t actually that ride dense (though it’s absolutely gorgeous) and Shanghai is rather top heavy and lacks filler attractions

All three are in the 18-20 ride count falling short of the 29 of Tokyo and the almost 40 of the stateside parks but both Shanghai and Paris pull in 13-18 million while 10 still feels like a pipe dream for HK

I can definitely accept that Paris is a much more balanced and overall better experience for the average Disney guest who isn’t experienced in Disney park design but does Shanghai really do enough “more” than HK to justify its almost double attendance

 

[BrianLo]

It’s interesting that while the increased attendance is good (I think we can safely say it’s above 7.4 but below 8) it still barely more than half of Shanghai’s attendance when HK is arguably the better park

I guess Shanghai never had to claw back an initial flawed reputation but I wonder what is that sauce that HK lacks considering it’s still the vast outlier in attendance numbers of the 6 magic kingdoms

The greater metropolitan population of Shanghai is almost 4X higher.

Big, big HKDL fan, but it was not the most ideal location in terms of metro population to support the park. It was banking heavily on tourism that has struggled for a variety of reasons.

I don’t know the demographics of SDL off the top of my head, but I assume they skew closer to how heavily OLC pulls from local populace.

 

[Supersnow84]

The greater metropolitan population of Shanghai is almost 4X higher.

Big, big HKDL fan, but it was not the most ideal location in terms of metro population to support the park. It was banking heavily on tourism that has struggled for a variety of reasons.

I don’t know the demographics of SDL off the top of my head, but I assume they skew closer to how heavily OLC pulls from local populace.

I guess they rely on the GBA but I’m assuming HK’s GBA proportion is way lower

 

[BrianLo]

I guess they rely on the GBA but I’m assuming HK’s GBA proportion is way lower

I don’t know what that stands for other than the context we are talking in… but yes I would figure so. If HK brings in 2M locals to support its park attendance with the other 6/8 provided by tourists, I wouldn’t be surprised that Shanghai has 8M “locals” as part of its attendance mix of 14M.

Resorts are going to be constrained inherently until they are turned into destination resorts. Orlando has always been the exception they struggle recreating. Shanghai will eventually be a destination. I hate to tell everyone HKDL is not a destination resort and may never be. It doesn’t even have a lick of retail or dining outside the gates. You aren’t a destination with one gate.

Excluding a couple of crazy Brits, of course.

 

[Supersnow84]

I don’t know what that stands for other than the context we are talking in… but yes I would figure so. If HK brings in 2M locals to support its park attendance with the other 6/8 provided by tourists, I wouldn’t be surprised that Shanghai has 8M “locals” as part of its attendance mix of 14M.

Resorts are going to be constrained inherently until they are turned into destination resorts. Orlando has always been the exception they struggle recreating. Shanghai will eventually be a destination. I hate to tell everyone HKDL is not a destination resort and may never be. It doesn’t even have a lick of retail or dining outside the gates. You aren’t a destination with one gate.

Excluding a couple of crazy Brits, of course.

The greater Bay Area

Basically everything in the pearl river delta that’s not HK, so shenzen, Guangzhou and the rest of the associated cities

The total greater bay region population is somewhere in the realm of 40 million

 

[BrianLo]

The greater Bay Area

Basically everything in the pearl river delta that’s not HK, so shenzen, Guangzhou and the rest of the associated cities

The total greater bay region population is somewhere in the realm of 40 million

Oh right (I knew it wasn’t game boy advanced…)

Ya I think structurally the Greater Bay Area never has reacted how they expected it would. Theres been more geopolitical, structural boundaries and physical boundaries that people don’t treat HK as their neighboring suburb. They’ve been trying to overtake that with things like the rail connection and mega bridge… but I don’t think it worked fully and the protests didn’t help.

Japanese 20yo hop on the metro from whenever in Tokyo. Shenzen young adults don’t really have the same experience with Lantau.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

We can talk about what it lack’s definitely but I don’t think that alone is fair considering its ride count falls into a similar range to Shanghai and Paris. Like people do seem to forget that Paris as the core Disneyland isn’t actually that ride dense (though it’s absolutely gorgeous) and Shanghai is rather top heavy and lacks filler attractions

All three are in the 18-20 ride count falling short of the 29 of Tokyo and the almost 40 of the stateside parks but both Shanghai and Paris pull in 13-18 million while 10 still feels like a pipe dream for HK

I can definitely accept that Paris is a much more balanced and overall better experience for the average Disney guest who isn’t experienced in Disney park design but does Shanghai really do enough “more” than HK to justify its almost double attendance

Paris may only have 21 rides, but it has an usually high number of walk through attractions and diversions, much like HKDL , which helps to fill out the day. HKDL has a strong entertainment and seasonal overlay line up too.

But Parc Disneyland only has 4 flat rides total, compared to HKDL's 7 (high for a castle park).

I think Martin's list of major additions is correct, but I do feel like Toy Story Land brings down the rest of the park because it doesn't have anything substantial as far as experiences or capacity is concerned.

 

[BrianLo]

Paris may only have 21 rides, but it has an usually high number of walk through attractions and diversions, much like HKDL , which helps to fill out the day. HKDL has a strong entertainment and seasonal overlay line up too.

But Parc Disneyland only has 4 flat rides total, compared to HKDL's 7 (high for a castle park).

I think Martin's list of major additions is correct, but I do feel like Toy Story Land brings down the rest of the park because it doesn't have anything substantial as far as experiences or capacity is concerned.

I feel like this is the classic lost in translation on ride counting metric. One WDW is unfairly held to a standard of.

In extremes you have World Showcase. Which certainly warrants more than an hour of time that formerly two, now three rides would suggest. The same is true of DAK and DHS to lesser extent.

I still think there is more to Shanghai Disney overall than HKDL. Size in general can be a time sink. I still don’t know why they at least haven’t slapped a world of Disney and Starbucks at bear minimum outside HKDL.

 

[Supersnow84]

Size as a time consumer is definitely valid, you can do an entire HK land in the time it takes you to walk through one of Shanghai’s lands but purely from an in park experience I’d say HK has more. Shanghai is very very light on things that aren’t pure rides to do

Shanghai’s downtown Disney moves the needle alot but does anyone really consider Shanghai a destination resort, hell it’s debatable that even Paris is given how bad way Disney studios is

 

[BrianLo]

does anyone really consider Shanghai a destination resort, hell it’s debatable that even Paris is given how bad way Disney studios is

Nope, but it will eventually be. We’ll see that second park within 10-15 years.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Nope, but it will eventually be. We’ll see that second park within 10-15 years.

Absolutely. The rate of expansion at Shanghai is mind-blowing, if not surprising. Meanwhile, the expansion at HKDL was much more slow-paced, but has produced much more of a consistently higher-quality of product.

I will say, I'm planning a trip next year and it's coming down to Tokyo vs Hong Kong, and I'm planning towards the latter just to visit HKDL. Its uniqueness is an asset that I think is vastly under marketed.

 

[Aramar]

The rate of expansion at Shanghai is mind-blowing, if not surprising.

I don't think Shanghai is expanding so fast. It opened in 2016 and the only expansions in 8 years were Toy Story Land (which was already planned since the beginning) and now Zootopia with only 1 ride. Hong Kong has had more expansions and has changed a lot more (they een changed the castle!).