HKDL gets new castle, frozen land and marvel land.

momo123

Member
Even if quinjet truly is standing up FOP why would Disney propose and why did LegCo approve iron man experience since quinjet would just be an objectively better version of it right next door

None of the stark expo decisions are really making sense

As for limits in space the park has enough room to become good enough to get the attendance to justify the second gate (it just needs to show it can) so I’m not really worried about expansion room, stark expo as a lane just doesn’t really make a lot of sense
I think legco probably got that amazing concept art we got buzz words like new system first of its kind. Also in 2016 avengers was huge it makes sense from the governments point of view. What doesn’t make sense is what was Disney thinking first I just don’t see how that concept art is possible in the space. Secondly the current theming for the area already makes no sense. To have your so called park headliner to be in essentially a cul de sac style corner again makes no sense.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
I think legco probably got that amazing concept art we got buzz words like new system first of its kind. Also in 2016 avengers was huge it makes sense from the governments point of view. What doesn’t make sense is what was Disney thinking first I just don’t see how that concept art is possible in the space. Secondly the current theming for the area already makes no sense. To have your so called park headliner to be in essentially a cul de sac style corner again makes no sense.
The location of the headliner goes back to the parks unbalanced problem caused by the original expansion being entirely on the south side of the park so they need something to draw guests to the north side of the park (as far as I was aware Tomorrowland is also the least loved of the original lands anyway)
 

momo123

Member
The location of the headliner goes back to the parks unbalanced problem caused by the original expansion being entirely on the south side of the park so they need something to draw guests to the north side of the park (as far as I was aware Tomorrowland is also the least loved of the original lands anyway)
I mean besides Main Street and Adventureland the other two lands were both poorly themed it’s just that fantasy lands set up still makes a bit of sense as it’s like a carnival in the castle grounds. Tomorrowland is also the one they’ve totally messed around with the whole marvel thing seems so tacked on.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
I mean besides Main Street and Adventureland the other two lands were both poorly themed it’s just that fantasy lands set up still makes a bit of sense as it’s like a carnival in the castle grounds. Tomorrowland is also the one they’ve totally messed around with the whole marvel thing seems so tacked on.
I mean you aren’t wrong but it is still a factor

Let’s say they reversed the position of the lands and slid the entrance down a bit to compensate, Tomorrowland is now the southern legacy land and Adventureland is the northern legacy land, they build the first expansion as it currently is wrapping around the southern side of Tomorrowland leaving Adventureland by itself on the north side

If this happened they would also want something else to draw guests to the north side because of the lack of content on the north side relative to the south side even though Adventureland is a better land than Tomorrowland

How messy stark expo is as a tacked on half land because of the lack of quinjet doesn’t change why they decided to put quinjet where they did
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I still think it’s fair to give Shanghai credit there, they just as well could have made it “(insert random Disney franchise) raging rapids” and put in some half hearted props, but they decided to specifically make it non themed

I think it's important to note SDL was really developed in the 2009-10-ish. While it opened in 2016, Roaring Rapids simply took a long time to build relative to the team who actually designed it. You can tell SDL was developed by a different iteration of Imagineering that doesn't currently exist. Not meant to be a criticism, just that we are very far removed from that institutional knowledge.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
I think it's important to note SDL was really developed in the 2009-10-ish. While it opened in 2016, Roaring Rapids simply took a long time to build relative to the team who actually designed it. You can tell SDL was developed by a different iteration of Imagineering that doesn't currently exist. Not meant to be a criticism, just that we are very far removed from that institutional knowledge.
That’s totally fair it was originally designed in the pre IP era and you can feel that based on the fact it’s so different and not just castle park version of DHS

Still in like 2015 they could have just went “stuff it throw in some cutouts” like for example monsters inc at DCA (I do know that was to hide superstar limo)

Regardless as much as I don’t like it Shanghai deserves credit for opening so close to the IP era without actually being affected by it, same as Hong Kong’s first expansion
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
That’s totally fair it was originally designed in the pre IP era and you can feel that based on the fact it’s so different and not just castle park version of DHS

Still in like 2015 they could have just went “stuff it throw in some cutouts” like for example monsters inc at DCA (I do know that was to hide superstar limo)

Regardless as much as I don’t like it Shanghai deserves credit for opening so close to the IP era without actually being affected by it, same as Hong Kong’s first expansion

I would say some of that comes down to having to approve this all with a partner. Likely by the time Shendi signed off on the project ?(2010/2011) it was uneditable. The whole 800 million extra they spent on it was just a farce that they ran over budget.

1394529000_db_2012_0718_SDL_Map11.jpg


See the 2012 leaked site plans.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
I would say some of that comes down to having to approve this all with a partner. Likely by the time Shendi signed off on the project ?(2010/2011) it was uneditable. The whole 800 million extra they spent on it was just a farce that they ran over budget.

View attachment 730676

See the 2012 leaked site plans.
God those plans just make me think of how much I hate the shape of Shanghai

But yeah If the ride designs were totally uneditable by 2012 then that’s fair Shanghai got in by the skin of their teeth on not being an IP castle park but yeah I don’t know how strongly they hold to that requirement

LegCo for example didn’t seem to care that Disney swapped out WODS for WOSS and apparently didn’t use that allocation for a retheme of an existing attraction but I don’t know if shendi is more stringent
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
God those plans just make me think of how much I hate the shape of Shanghai

But yeah If the ride designs were totally uneditable by 2012 then that’s fair Shanghai got in by the skin of their teeth on not being an IP castle park but yeah I don’t know how strongly they hold to that requirement

LegCo for example didn’t seem to care that Disney swapped out WODS for WOSS and apparently didn’t use that allocation for a retheme of an existing attraction but I don’t know if shendi is more stringent

Much more was riding on delivering expectations to a new partner and mainland China at that. They were tiptoeing around. Acknowledging mainland was very distinct from Hong Kong in that era. I doubt Disney would have dared altered course even an inch.

Now? Maybe they'd have slightly more leeway. But Iger spent a decade walking on eggshells with them, probably the majority of it self imposed.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
Much more was riding on delivering expectations to a new partner and mainland China at that. They were tiptoeing around. Acknowledging mainland was very distinct from Hong Kong in that era. I doubt Disney would have dared altered course even an inch.

Now? Maybe they'd have slightly more leeway. But Iger spent a decade walking on eggshells with them, probably the majority of it self imposed.
I think a good chunk of that was self imposed, China wanted the Disney resort, considering that Disney basically built HK because they went around to a bunch of competing cities and offered them deals they would be stupid to accept to make Shanghai jealous and HK accepted and Shanghai still didn’t tell Disney to off tells me that both parties wanted to the resort

But your core point about Disney walking on eggshells because they didn’t want to negatively affect their potential relationship with China is totally valid and very likely as well whereas they were a known quantity in HK by the time of mystic manor
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I’m out of the loop her (and we are kinda into Shanghai here but anyway)

What is this 800 million
It was announced a year or two before opening that Disney and Shendhi would be spending an extra $800 million to increase the number of attractions at opening day. It was technically true in that a number of attractions were behind schedule and would not be ready for the already vaguely announced opening. It’s a lie in that before they fell behind to be post-opening attractions they were supposed to be opening day attractions. It got them back to where they were supposed to be but Iger spun it as a pre-opening expansion.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
It was announced a year or two before opening that Disney and Shendhi would be spending an extra $800 million to increase the number of attractions at opening day. It was technically true in that a number of attractions were behind schedule and would not be ready for the already vaguely announced opening. It’s a lie in that before they fell behind to be post-opening attractions they were supposed to be opening day attractions. It got them back to where they were supposed to be but Iger spun it as a pre-opening expansion.
So basically if the park didn’t spend the 800 million the park would have opened with less than it has now, but what it has now (ignoring TSL) was what was originally planned so they used the 800 million to reach the original plan but sold it as if they were building more than the original plan


Interesting, Shanghai with less than it had pre opening would probably have gone down about as well as HK
Shanghai was very much an IP park. That’s why it has TRON instead of Space Mountain, because that was going to be the next big franchise. It’s why they have the ridiculous Mickey Ave which is characters slapped on shops.
Mickey avenue is more an excuse to remove Americana from the park (as is subbing Frontierland for adventure island and treasure cove), I don’t feel like Shanghai is terribly more IP driven than the others considering all the other space mountains are usually Star Wars themed

If it was built 5 years later it probably would look like a castle park version of DHS
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
looks like one of the most beautiful lands disney has ever made, the way its set in the mountains is so nice
They really look they went the whole 9 yards with it

It looks extensive despite its limited space and it looks beautiful as well, fits in very well with HK’s natural landscape
 

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