HKDL gets new castle, frozen land and marvel land.

[momo123]

Hong Kong is not at all a bad location for a Disney park considering it's a global hub. There's a reason they placed the park near the airport. HK is the most connected city in the entirety of Asia after all. It's location serves mainland China and SEA which are both giant markets. The park was always dreamt up as a single day destination, with tourists with connecting flies in HK being one of the main demographics the park was targeting. To be frank, I think Disney always wanted a park in mainland China and planned on building one eventually, but I also believe they wanted a park in one of the 4 Tigers of Asia, and HK was the most reasonably pick considering everything. HK's government was aware of Disney's plans of a wanting to build a mainland park, and wanted reassurance. Disney gave them that in the form of massive expansion plans and a promise to not build another Chinese park in the next how many years which was enough to convince HK to invest in the park. And here's the thing, I genuinely don't believe that Disney's owns plans had the resort expanding beyond a single park. Everything that was said by Eisner and the company during the development of the park simply didn't go with that.

Makes sense a quick one day stopover not an entire resort! the only here that doesn't make sense is why did Disney have rights on the land next door if they never had such intentions. I also wonder now what happens next door now (assuming its torn down).

 

[Rush]

The budget is not the issue! They're probably focusing on World of Frozen now and are hoping it buys them a few years before they're forced to get back into expanding the park.

 

[Supersnow84]

Also if I'm not mistaken 5b HKD is over 600m USD that's a lot for one attraction I think that would make it the most expensive attraction ever?

ROTR was 500 mil so about the same accounting for inflation

 

[Supersnow84]

The budget is not the issue! They're probably focusing on World of Frozen now and are hoping it buys them a few years before they're forced to get back into expanding the park.

Arendelle is basically finished, they would need to start the f ticket now for it to be ready anytime in the next 3-4 years

 

[momo123]

ROTR was 500 mil so about the same accounting for inflation

Im not sure Disney wants to build a ride like it again? I've heard it has issues I've read they have breakdowns because of its complexity? but a ride like that can headline a park.

 

[Supersnow84]

Im not sure Disney wants to build a ride like it again? I've heard it has issues I've read they have breakdowns because of its complexity? but a ride like that can headline a park.

The ride is a menace to operate but I’d assume it’s been a massive boon to DHS

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hong Kong Disneyland was always a sort of consolation prize. The goal was always to get a park in Shanghai. They way oversold the project to Hong Kong and ended up with terms that were too good to pass up when they were trying to make the Mainland jealous by shopping the Disneyland Asia project around to different locales.

 

[Supersnow84]

Hong Kong Disneyland was always a sort of consolation prize. The goal was always to get a park in Shanghai. They way oversold the project to Hong Kong and ended up with terms that were too good to pass up when they were trying to make the Mainland jealous by shopping the Disneyland Asia project around to different locales.

Does LegCo have unilateral authority to pull the plug on the park and either force Disney to own it completely or close it

It’s obvious in hindsight that LegCo got a dodgy as hell deal since they bear the brunt of the lost money and Disney can use HK as a half funded R&D division for the other parks and now they have to compete with the larger (though no necessarily better Shanghai)

 

[momo123]

Does LegCo have unilateral authority to pull the plug on the park and either force Disney to own it completely or close it

It’s obvious in hindsight that LegCo got a dodgy as hell deal since they bear the brunt of the lost money and Disney can use HK as a half funded R&D division for the other parks and now they have to compete with the larger (though no necessarily better Shanghai)

Doubt a park that has cost billions will be torn down or shut. I actually think Disney has got the tougher deal here as they have had even forgoe royalties so yea. HK gets employment & tourist spending on other things besides Disney people do travel to the park from sea & sa region specifically with little kids sometimes. I don’t see what Disney has gotten exactly here since opening they’ve actually increased their stake by investing.

Issue is Disney I feel can’t upset HK without also causing issues at Shanghai.

 

[Supersnow84]

As far as I was aware Disney has only allowed LegCo to defer the royalties, not cancel them entirely, so besides these deferred years Disney makes money off HK even when it makes an operating loss so the difference is borne by HK, plus for example mystic manor was WDI’s first foray into true trackless rides (PHH is older but a lot of that wasn’t done by WDI) so they can use HK for R&D purposes

But you are right the net benefit of the park to the city is probably positive even if it makes an operating loss

 

[momo123]

Also post castle local sentiment has changed considerably in the park and op is looked at more negatively now then previously.

Also remember one of the biggest issue the park faced since opening was everything is a short changed mini version of the us. But during covid locals didn’t have access to another Disney they went and were quite impressed. The biggest issue has always been the initial word of mouth stuck for a long time but has changed more recently

 

[Supersnow84]

Also post castle local sentiment has changed considerably in the park and op is looked at more negatively now then previously.

Also remember one of the biggest issue the park faced since opening was everything is a short changed mini version of the us. But during covid locals didn’t have access to another Disney they went and were quite impressed. The biggest issue has always been the initial word of mouth stuck for a long time but has changed more recently

Yeah I had heard the castle had done wonders for the perception of the park but I didn’t know that ocean park had been negatively affected by anything except that loan they took to stay solvent right when Covid first hit

I can understand why the park had negative perception when it launched considering what it launched with, it was worse than WDS at launch

 

[momo123]

Yeah I had heard the castle had done wonders for the perception of the park but I didn’t know that ocean park had been negatively affected by anything except that loan they took to stay solvent right when Covid first hit

I can understand why the park had negative perception when it launched considering what it launched with, it was worse than WDS at launch

Yes cause they asked for a government handout and still fired a bunch of staff. Disney didn't fire anyone also there is a slight issue with how animals are treated at OP that has come into question more recently. I think the biggest issue is a lack of new attractions at the park and if anything many of there older famous rides like the raging river (splash mountain like) & mine train (probably one the best rides anywhere actually because it literally hung of the side of a mountain with amazing views) and never replaced them with anything this happened right before covid. I think there was a whole plan but I think when covid hit they scrapped it and now the park lost what was its unique charm over Disney a lot of thrill rides being one of those driving factors.

 

[Supersnow84]

Sorry don’t mean to sound like I’m grilling you for info just genuinely interested

Do you think that means that LegCo will favour Disney going forward, I can’t imagine Disney has alot of goodwill with LegCo after the fiasco of the launch of HK but it seems like Disney is making the right moves to fix that both with the government and the general public

Or (because I know you said that HK just can’t support the park even at the current size) do you think LegCo will support neither going forward, it’s kinda hard to know the “good enough” point for HK that continued loses are coming from the park being unprofitable because of its location rather than its poor reputation but that point has to be getting close

 

[momo123]

Sorry don’t mean to sound like I’m grilling you for info just genuinely interested

Do you think that means that LegCo will favour Disney going forward, I can’t imagine Disney has alot of goodwill with LegCo after the fiasco of the launch of HK but it seems like Disney is making the right moves to fix that both with the government and the general public

Or (because I know you said that HK just can’t support the park even at the current size) do you think LegCo will support neither going forward, it’s kinda hard to know the “good enough” point for HK that continued loses are coming from the park being unprofitable because of its location rather than its poor reputation but that point has to be getting close

I think the government is quite cash rich in general so such a loss will not change support for the park and now sentiment is in there favour I think with a strong robust local audience the park could achieve 8m+ but no matter what is done I think 10m+ is tough. I think the Hk governments main gripe is Disney promised a lot delivered very little.

I think if the park could almost breakeven the HK gov would be happy and that would be that. They've been giving money to ocean park for decades for new attractions etc its just that most lawmakers in legco had a soft corner for op and were quite ed at Disney for basically a show of a opening. Losing face is really big in Hk and the mainland. I think HK desperately needs to reinvent itself now post covid due to what's happened in the last few years.

 

[Supersnow84]

I think the government is quite cash rich in general so such a loss will not change support for the park and now sentiment is in there favour I think with a strong robust local audience the park could achieve 8m+ but no matter what is done I think 10m+ is tough. I think the Hk governments main gripe is Disney promised a lot delivered very little.

I think if the park could almost breakeven the HK gov would be happy and that would be that. They've been giving money to ocean park for decades for new attractions etc its just that most lawmakers in legco had a soft corner for op and were quite ed at Disney for basically a show of a opening. Losing face is really big in Hk and the mainland. I think HK desperately needs to reinvent itself now post covid due to what's happened in the last few years.

So do you think they will give Disney any more “chances” so to speak or will it be “make it work with what you have now or we are just gonna tap out”

I can definitely see LegCo being ed at the opening of the park (I mean only what’s encircled by the train line that is beyond a joke) but yeah it seems like Disney is going on the right direction but OP is going on the wrong direction, it’s an interesting dynamic regardless

 

[momo123]

I think they will give Disney money till a full park with no obvious expansion pad and beyond that the park would need to support itself I'd assume. currently I'd say there's 3 key spots next tsl, next to grizzly & the marvel space. I'd say if they don't build that f-ticket attraction most of these can be filled with the current remaining budget and a little more. I think the park still needs to E-tickets at the least but there is space for that. But I think a headline attraction really could change things and at least allow the park to consistently breakeven at the least.

 

[Supersnow84]

I think they will give Disney money till a full park with no obvious expansion pad and beyond that the park would need to support itself I'd assume. currently I'd say there's 3 key spots next tsl, next to grizzly & the marvel space. I'd say if they don't build that f-ticket attraction most of these can be filled with the current remaining budget and a little more. I think the park still needs to E-tickets at the least but there is space for that. But I think a headline attraction really could change things and at least allow the park to consistently breakeven at the least.

Yeah it comes back to that old question, if they filled the remaining 3 big pads with say

-marvel e ticket
-midway mania
-new land next to grizzly with one e ticket

Would that do more for the park than 1 f ticket,

that would bring the park to 5 (or 6) e tickets if you count midway as an e ticket 20 total rides (21 If you count rafts to tarzans treehouse) and increase the footprint of the park by about 10 acres

But assuming this was funded with the remaining money it would be unlikely any of these e tickets would be revolutionary so it would still leave mystic manor as the patchwork park headliner

 

[momo123]

I think a f ticket easier said than done globally what are the f ticket attractions?

I don’t think there is any of the shelf f ticket for HK and creating a new one is tough it’s obvious that was the aim looking at the budget left. Is there a f ticket they can just port to HK that’s asia exclusive that works? I’m not sure there is again it will need approval are there any ips for HK left assume they just skip the avengers idea.

There’s two possibilities for avengers for a normal e ticket either a coaster like Paris (but then you have two similar indoor coaster second option is gotg drop tower (a ride type missing).

Avatar which I’m sure is going to Shanghai (cause of the popup) again has either a river ride or fop (again does work as HK doesn’t have a soarin).

Looking at it there isn’t any other IP that Disney owns that’s super popular in Asia that they don’t already have.

 

[Supersnow84]

The current attractions I’d consider f ticket would be

Clear f ticket
-ROTR
-FOP

Potential f ticket
-BATB
-GOTG (EPCOT)

Headliners that I wouldn’t say are f ticket
- journey to the centre of the earth
-pirates of the Caribbean battle for the sunken treasure
-mystic manor
-anything in MK/DLP/WDS

Avatar looks set to go to Shanghai with that weird pop up though I feel it would fit in HK better because of the backdrop and the fact that HK doesn’t have a soarin (though it does have iron man, not as close to FOP as soarin but still a simulator), ROTR has too big a footprint for HK and it is already at two parks, BATB is already coming in the form of FEA (big new fantasyland storybook attraction) and Epcot guardians is too much like space considering it’ll be next door

So if HK wants an F ticket it either needs to win FOP off Shanghai (incredibly unlikely because if Shanghai wants it Shanghai will get it, HK will only get it if Shanghai explicitly doesn’t want it) or build something unique