Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World

[bpiper]

Brightline trains don’t turn as is, they operate push/pull with a locomotive on each end.

Correct and the coaches are setup with half the seats facing one way and the other half the other way. After the Disney station, it wold be flipped. The people facing forward would now be facing backwards creating customer irritation.

 

[maxairmike]

In stretches where enough room can't be found to lay tracks in the median, they would probably have to elevate them. It adds expense, but if it's the only alternative ... c'est la vie.

Yeah, but that's the thing, that would be the entire stretch from leaving the airport property to the Springs station that was "announced" today, and about 75% of the way to I-4 (and I can't imagine they don't plan on doing the same thing between that point and I-4 in a few more years). It raises the question of where's the space for the support pylons? You can see in the linked renderings that they widen a bit around the pylons for the airport exit ramps, but there's no visual indication of that in the stretches west of there in the renderings. I know they're just renderings and I'm trying to find the plans that are more similar to I-4s visuals, but that's what I have to go on right now. Following 528 to I-4 gives them some substantial enough median for support pylons even after the expansion, but the height the track would have to be elevated to seems at least excessive, if not prohibitive. About as high or higher than the highest new 408/I-4 ramp, for the entire stretch from Daryl Carter to the station at Springs.

 

[bluetiedye]

View attachment 515191
Source: https://www.clickorlando.com/travel...-ground-on-high-speed-rail-system-in-orlando/

Do you know how SunRail -> Brightline -> WDW connectivity would work here? Would you have to make a train switch from SunRail to Brightline? Or would some of the talk of SunRail and Brightline sharing an east-west corridor perhaps enable one smooth SunRail ride from downtown Orlando to WDW?

 

[kaos]

I can't see it being a spur. The passengers on one leg would be facing forwards, while on the other leg, would be facing backwards... Passengers will NOT like that. My significant other gets nauseous if she has to ride facing backwards....

I'm sure the seats are reversible just like every other passenger train

 

[joelkfla]

Yeah, but that's the thing, that would be the entire stretch from leaving the airport property to the Springs station that was "announced" today, and about 75% of the way to I-4 (and I can't imagine they don't plan on doing the same thing between that point and I-4 in a few more years). It raises the question of where's the space for the support pylons? You can see in the linked renderings that they widen a bit around the pylons for the airport exit ramps, but there's no visual indication of that in the stretches west of there in the renderings. I know they're just renderings and I'm trying to find the plans that are more similar to I-4s visuals, but that's what I have to go on right now. Following 528 to I-4 gives them some substantial enough median for support pylons even after the expansion, but the height the track would have to be elevated to seems at least excessive, if not prohibitive. About as high or higher than the highest new 408/I-4 ramp, for the entire stretch from Daryl Carter to the station at Springs.

I don't know -- maybe whoever did those renderings was not in the loop with the Brightline negotiations. The distance from where Brightline is proposed to enter 417 (near the Meadow Woods SunRail station) to the 536 exit is about 12 highway miles.

 

[joelkfla]

Do you know how SunRail -> Brightline -> WDW connectivity would work here? Would you have to make a train switch from SunRail to Brightline? Or would some of the talk of SunRail and Brightline sharing an east-west corridor perhaps enable one smooth SunRail ride from downtown Orlando to WDW?

The last I heard it was still being studied, but I don't think there's been any talk of SunRail going to WDW, just to the airport.

Brightline would use a short stretch of SunRail right of way around Meadow Woods station. I don't think it's known yet whether Brightline would use the existing SunRail tracks or lay their own parallel tracks, and whether or not Brightline would stop at Meadow Woods.

Brightline would lay new tracks in an Orlando Utilities right of way between the airport and the SunRail line. What's being studied is whether SunRail could use those tracks to run to the airport.

I think Brightline is planning to run at high speed between the SunRail line & WDW, so it would be impractical to allow the much slower SunRail trains to share that stretch.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think Brightline is planning to run at high speed between the SunRail line & WDW, so it would be impractical to allow the much slower SunRail trains to share that stretch.

The distance is likely a limiting factor in speed so it seems unlikely that this stretch would have trains running at 100+ mph. Right now SunRail hits a maximum speed of 79 mph so it can move at a decent speed on the corridor if Brightline is looking to keep things moving.

 

[techgeek]

“The design concept for the proposed station at Disney Springs at Walt Disney World includes a lobby on the ground level, passenger facilities and an upper level train platform,” Brightline said in a statement. “The proposed location would be in close proximity to Walt Disney World Resort’s four theme parks, two water parks and more than 25 hotels.”

The description of the station complex implies the actual tracks will be elevated at least by one story at the Springs station, so any grade transition is unlikely to occur on WDW property. After all these years, the Disney Village gets some manner of elevated rail after all!

For perspective on the kind of scale the station might take, this is the Miami terminal station, which is also elevated:

 

[LovePop]

I just heard that Brightline has struck a deal with Disney to connect Orlando airport (MCO) with Disney Springs. To me, that means no more Magic Express buses! Let's just hop on the train to DS, then hop on the hotel bus or Minnevan or uber! Of course, DME will still have to haul luggage, but at least they don't have to haul people anymore. I'd rather be on a train! How exciting.

 

[castlecake2.0]

I feel it’s more likely this will be going in the WWOS/celebration area, I just can’t see how they would get it through all the interchanges at 192 and 536 without it being incredibly expensive

 

[maxairmike]

The last I heard it was still being studied, but I don't think there's been any talk of SunRail going to WDW, just to the airport.

Brightline would use a short stretch of SunRail right of way around Meadow Woods station. I don't think it's known yet whether Brightline would use the existing SunRail tracks or lay their own parallel tracks, and whether or not Brightline would stop at Meadow Woods.

Brightline would lay new tracks in an Orlando Utilities right of way between the airport and the SunRail line. What's being studied is whether SunRail could use those tracks to run to the airport.

I think Brightline is planning to run at high speed between the SunRail line & WDW, so it would be impractical to allow the much slower SunRail trains to share that stretch

I can see the connection to the existing track running to the wye to Meadow Woods, but I can't see a way to curve the line to follow 417 in that immediate area. I can see a few options for utilizing the existing railway to jog southeast and then curve into/ the 417 alignment, if they really can't follow the connector road down to 417 or cut through the wetlands/woods between the existing rail and 417.

 

[esskay]

Brightline name returns, replacing short-lived Virgin brand as the passenger rail aims for Disney station

Brightline name returns, replacing short-lived Virgin brand as the passenger rail aims for Disney station The Brightline name is coming back, replacing the name Virgin Trains, according to a financial report issued Friday that also suggests a station at Walt Disney World may open soon after...

forums.wdwmagic.com

TL;DR It looks like its happening, and no it wouldn't replace DME. Imagine all those passengers having to walk thier luggage a good mile or so from a train station, to the bus depot, onto busses that have no luggage storage. It'd completely be the opposite of what the aims of DME is.

 

[halltd]

Like the majority of modern railcars, Brightline's Siemens railcars have fixed seating, with half of the seats facing each direction. Trains are not turned. There's a locomotive at each end.

There would be environmental reports, ROW acquisition, and they would probably be required to build an elevated trackbed to avoid grade crossings. Coming up I-4 from 417 as a spur would be much less efficient operationally, but eliminate the need for additional construction, other than an additional connecting track at the 417/I-4 junction. The station could be a stub end, with the engine crew simply moving to the other end of the train and going back to 417 the way they came.

But in June 2019, Brightline presented the OUC-417-I4 route as the preferred alternative. 536 was not included.View attachment 515191
Source: https://www.clickorlando.com/travel...-ground-on-high-speed-rail-system-in-orlando/

I said 528. It’s the line in blue. Says they don’t prefer it because of the added cost of elevated rail sections, but the preferred route doesn’t go near Springs. Like I said, obviously new things are in the works and not yet public knowledge.

I can’t wait to see what they come up with. I hope it’s efficient and a time saver or no one will use it.

 

[marni1971]

Brightline name returns, replacing short-lived Virgin brand as the passenger rail aims for Disney station

Brightline name returns, replacing short-lived Virgin brand as the passenger rail aims for Disney station The Brightline name is coming back, replacing the name Virgin Trains, according to a financial report issued Friday that also suggests a station at Walt Disney World may open soon after...

forums.wdwmagic.com

TL;DR It looks like its happening, and no it wouldn't replace DME. Imagine all those passengers having to walk thier luggage a good mile or so from a train station, to the bus depot, onto busses that have no luggage storage. It'd completely be the opposite of what the aims of DME is.

Or will it ?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Brightline name returns, replacing short-lived Virgin brand as the passenger rail aims for Disney station

Brightline name returns, replacing short-lived Virgin brand as the passenger rail aims for Disney station The Brightline name is coming back, replacing the name Virgin Trains, according to a financial report issued Friday that also suggests a station at Walt Disney World may open soon after...

forums.wdwmagic.com

TL;DR It looks like its happening, and no it wouldn't replace DME. Imagine all those passengers having to walk thier luggage a good mile or so from a train station, to the bus depot, onto busses that have no luggage storage. It'd completely be the opposite of what the aims of DME is.

You're making very unreasonable assumptions already addressed in this thread.

 

[UCF]

The last I heard it was still being studied, but I don't think there's been any talk of SunRail going to WDW, just to the airport.

Brightline would use a short stretch of SunRail right of way around Meadow Woods station. I don't think it's known yet whether Brightline would use the existing SunRail tracks or lay their own parallel tracks, and whether or not Brightline would stop at Meadow Woods.

Brightline would lay new tracks in an Orlando Utilities right of way between the airport and the SunRail line. What's being studied is whether SunRail could use those tracks to run to the airport.

I think Brightline is planning to run at high speed between the SunRail line & WDW, so it would be impractical to allow the much slower SunRail trains to share that stretch.

The latest proposal is for new tracks to be built in the OUC ROW that both Sunrail and Brightline would share. The Meadow Woods Brightline station would be eliminated and replaced by a completely new East-West Sunrail route, where Sunrail would be allowed to operate on Brightline tracks between Disney and Innovation Way, with stations at MCO and Meadow Wood (my understanding is that while rights will be granted to Sunrail to operate to Disney on the tracks, no conversation with Disney has been had about allowing Sunrail trains on its property, and I'd guess they won't allow that)

 

[Robbiem]

This is good news but Disney really needs to integrate the station into its transport system. imagine if you could take a monorail from the station to the parks or a wedway or skyliner to your resort. If people have to take a bus then get the train it will cut back a lot on the effectiveness of the system as you’ll have bottlenecks at the station and destination bus stops

Tokyo and Paris does this well with the station being located for easy access to the monorail and walking routes to inspari and Disneyland

 

[JoeCamel]

This is good news but Disney really needs to integrate the station into its transport system. imagine if you could take a monorail from the station to the parks or a wedway or skyliner to your resort. If people have to take a bus then get the train it will cut back a lot on the effectiveness of the system as you’ll have bottlenecks at the station and destination bus stops

Tokyo and Paris does this well with the station being located for easy access to the monorail and walking routes to inspari and Disneyland

That is so last century thinking. This century is "will they be happy with an Uber voucher?

 

[joelkfla]

The latest proposal is for new tracks to be built in the OUC ROW that both Sunrail and Brightline would share. The Meadow Woods Brightline station would be eliminated and replaced by a completely new East-West Sunrail route, where Sunrail would be allowed to operate on Brightline tracks between Disney and Innovation Way, with stations at MCO and Meadow Wood (my understanding is that while rights will be granted to Sunrail to operate to Disney on the tracks, no conversation with Disney has been had about allowing Sunrail trains on its property, and I'd guess they won't allow that)

If that's the case, I think another question would be whether Brightline would allow SunRail to share it's WDW station, if Disney were OK with it.

I'm curious about where you found this info?

 

[joelkfla]

This is good news but Disney really needs to integrate the station into its transport system. imagine if you could take a monorail from the station to the parks or a wedway or skyliner to your resort. If people have to take a bus then get the train it will cut back a lot on the effectiveness of the system as you’ll have bottlenecks at the station and destination bus stops

Tokyo and Paris does this well with the station being located for easy access to the monorail and walking routes to inspari and Disneyland

Speaking as a retired Disney bus driver, I would not advise anyone to rely on Disney Transport buses to catch a train. Remember, Disney itself recommends allowing 90 minutes to reach a dining reservation.