Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
Its this kind of garbage that will contribute to the failure of Brightline. Sad but true.
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Rumor Higher Speed Rail from MCO to Disney World
- Thread starter UCF
- Start date
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Actual footage of me predicting that Brightline will counter-sue.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The news was filled with stories of Virgin’s financial woes and backlash against Branson. While Virgin Atlantic was the focus it was not limited to just that majority-owned company. I think Brightline has a pretty good case that the name was not a good look at the time they cancelled the deal.
Still can’t reign on a deal. Not to mention any financial woes are common place in this post Covid world.
Also helps Virgin ran HSTs in the UK - until the government went somewhere else that offered less quality for more money to the treasury.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Virgin claims they are owed an exit fee which suggests the contract includes a means of ending the licensing deal. Virgin’s negative publicity was also about more than just common financial difficulties.
Then they should be paid what they’re due.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
That assumes there are no conditions on said fee. The wording of the article makes it seem like the brand being tarnished was a condition for it to be dropped.
I doubt we’ll ever know unless the contract is outed. But “tarnished brand” in a case like this would be an incredibly hard metric to prove in court.
Remember, this is American Court. Anything can happen.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The suit was filed in London.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I find it hard to believe Virgin would have agreed to a contract that would allow Brightline to drop the branding with no fee whatsoever based on such a vague term -- if such a term was included, Virgin attorneys should have made sure it was defined. Even if the term was defined (e.g. a 15% decrease in Virgin's market capitalization or any number of other ways), they should have also had some sort of force majeure protection for a pandemic.
If none of that was done, their attorneys failed miserably in writing/reviewing the contract. I'd be surprised if Virgin didn't get something out of this, although likely not the full 250 million.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I would think Brightline (and parent company) has good attorneys as well. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I'm sure they do -- my point was more about general contract construction. It's unlikely any corporate contract like this would have given Brightline a free out where they didn't owe Virgin a cent unless that was specifically contemplated and agreed upon by both parties. Considering Virgin is suing, it doesn't seem like that's the case.
Obviously Brightline thinks they at least have a case that they had a free out or they wouldn't have done it, but I expect this will either end up settled or Virgin will get some sort of judgment short of the full amount.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
If I were the name holder I think I would want vagueness because you then always have something to argue. To use your example the past few weeks have shown how wildly market capitalization can be manipulated. A clear objective definition means that once it is hit then it is clearly hit. A vague term means you can always argue it was not so bad. Stock down? It is just momentary or part of a larger downturn. Another licensee in a scandal? They’re out of the Group. They’re lawyers, they’re paid to argue and we’ve seen plenty of times where companies make ridiculous arguments.
The negative press regarding Virgin was not that Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia were seeking assistance like every other airline, but Branson being very vocal about wanting government assistance while he and the company reside in the tax haven of the British Virgin Islands. It was the very setup of Virgin that became the problem, not the pandemic. And of course Virgin’s lawyers could argue that their structure has been in place for decades.
I too would not be surprised to see some sort of settlement reached for less.
corran horn
Well-Known Member
(Me at Art Smith's or Chicken Guy): You guys validate, right?
For a good 'yoosta', DVC yoosta be given park passes. (ducks)
"Brightline disclosed on Thursday its most detailed explanation so far on costs for a corridor between the airport and a Disney World station, preferring a $1 billion route piggybacking on Road 417 through Hunters Creek over a more than $2 billion route along State Road 528 to International Drive.
Passenger service of nearly 17 miles from Orlando International Airport to a station at Walt Disney World’s Disney Springs is slated to start in five years, said Brightline’s executive vice president of infrastructure development, Michael Cegelis.
The choice of following portions of S.R. 417 or S.R. 528 on the way to Disney Springs has been contentious. Hunters Creek residents are worried about noise and vibration from trains running parallel to S.R. 417 and proponents of the S.R. 528 alternative want Brightline to link International Drive’s tourism business and Orange County Convention Center hotels with Orlando’s airport.
But Cegelis said that from the standpoint of Brightline making extension to Disney financially viable for his private company, the cost and construction challenges vastly favor the S.R. 417 route and discourage attempting to thread a maze of private and public lands between the airport and International Drive.
“We think there are better, other ways to connect the important convention center area and I-Drive to the airport. That needs to happen. It’s imperative,” Cegelis said. “We think there are other, more efficient ways to do it than an hourly, intercity train
Cegelis was speaking to leaders of the Central Florida Expressway Authority, the region’s toll-road agency, which owns much of S.R. 417 and S.R. 528, and is to grant a lease for Brightline rail corridor for either of the two roads.
Authority board member Jay Madara pushed back at Brightline’s preference for S.R. 417 as missing an opportunity to connect I-Drive industry with the airport, and asked for further analysis on costs and other factors.
The other board members, including Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer and Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, offered no indication of their preference."
"Local agencies owning land or having a say in a Brightline corridor include the expressway authority, the airport authority, Orlando Utilities Commission and the commission of local leaders governing the SunRail commuter train system.
The two alternative routes between the airport and Disney are the same length, Cegelis said, at about 16.7 miles. The S.R. 417 route was drawn by Brightline, while the S.R. 528 route was envisioned in 2010 for an ill-fated proposal for high-speed rail between Tampa and Orlando. Brightline staff and contractors developed cost estimates for both routes.
Cegelis stressed key comparisons between the two.
The S.R. 417 alignment would cost $1.03 billion, require 342,000 square feet of bridges, involve three private properties and offer efficient sharing of corridor space with a proposed SunRail link between the airport and its main line.
The S.R. 528 alignment would cost $2.1 billion, require 1.9 million square feet of bridges, affect 76 private properties and involve a complex arrangement with SunRail.
From Disney to Tampa, Brightline would follow Interstate 4 right-of-way. Track development in the Tampa Bay area also would be very complex, Cegelis said, without offering many details for that section.
“Anytime you are doing a project like this, it’s a challenge,” Cegelis said."
www.orlandosentinel.com
Passenger service of nearly 17 miles from Orlando International Airport to a station at Walt Disney World’s Disney Springs is slated to start in five years, said Brightline’s executive vice president of infrastructure development, Michael Cegelis.
The choice of following portions of S.R. 417 or S.R. 528 on the way to Disney Springs has been contentious. Hunters Creek residents are worried about noise and vibration from trains running parallel to S.R. 417 and proponents of the S.R. 528 alternative want Brightline to link International Drive’s tourism business and Orange County Convention Center hotels with Orlando’s airport.
But Cegelis said that from the standpoint of Brightline making extension to Disney financially viable for his private company, the cost and construction challenges vastly favor the S.R. 417 route and discourage attempting to thread a maze of private and public lands between the airport and International Drive.
“We think there are better, other ways to connect the important convention center area and I-Drive to the airport. That needs to happen. It’s imperative,” Cegelis said. “We think there are other, more efficient ways to do it than an hourly, intercity train
Cegelis was speaking to leaders of the Central Florida Expressway Authority, the region’s toll-road agency, which owns much of S.R. 417 and S.R. 528, and is to grant a lease for Brightline rail corridor for either of the two roads.
Authority board member Jay Madara pushed back at Brightline’s preference for S.R. 417 as missing an opportunity to connect I-Drive industry with the airport, and asked for further analysis on costs and other factors.
The other board members, including Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer and Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, offered no indication of their preference."
"Local agencies owning land or having a say in a Brightline corridor include the expressway authority, the airport authority, Orlando Utilities Commission and the commission of local leaders governing the SunRail commuter train system.
The two alternative routes between the airport and Disney are the same length, Cegelis said, at about 16.7 miles. The S.R. 417 route was drawn by Brightline, while the S.R. 528 route was envisioned in 2010 for an ill-fated proposal for high-speed rail between Tampa and Orlando. Brightline staff and contractors developed cost estimates for both routes.
Cegelis stressed key comparisons between the two.
The S.R. 417 alignment would cost $1.03 billion, require 342,000 square feet of bridges, involve three private properties and offer efficient sharing of corridor space with a proposed SunRail link between the airport and its main line.
The S.R. 528 alignment would cost $2.1 billion, require 1.9 million square feet of bridges, affect 76 private properties and involve a complex arrangement with SunRail.
From Disney to Tampa, Brightline would follow Interstate 4 right-of-way. Track development in the Tampa Bay area also would be very complex, Cegelis said, without offering many details for that section.
“Anytime you are doing a project like this, it’s a challenge,” Cegelis said."
Brightline reveals cost details and route choices for Disney service in 5 years
Brightline disclosed on Thursday its most detailed explanation so far on costs for a corridor between the airport and a Disney World station, preferring a $1 billion route piggybacking on Road 417 …
www.orlandosentinel.com
If I was a Hunters Creek resident I would be upset too having a train running by my home day and night. Not surprising the contractor looks for a cheaper way to build the rail system project."Brightline disclosed on Thursday its most detailed explanation so far on costs for a corridor between the airport and a Disney World station, preferring a $1 billion route piggybacking on Road 417 through Hunters Creek over a more than $2 billion route along State Road 528 to International Drive.
Passenger service of nearly 17 miles from Orlando International Airport to a station at Walt Disney World’s Disney Springs is slated to start in five years, said Brightline’s executive vice president of infrastructure development, Michael Cegelis.
The choice of following portions of S.R. 417 or S.R. 528 on the way to Disney Springs has been contentious. Hunters Creek residents are worried about noise and vibration from trains running parallel to S.R. 417 and proponents of the S.R. 528 alternative want Brightline to link International Drive’s tourism business and Orange County Convention Center hotels with Orlando’s airport.
View attachment 538780
But Cegelis said that from the standpoint of Brightline making extension to Disney financially viable for his private company, the cost and construction challenges vastly favor the S.R. 417 route and discourage attempting to thread a maze of private and public lands between the airport and International Drive.
“We think there are better, other ways to connect the important convention center area and I-Drive to the airport. That needs to happen. It’s imperative,” Cegelis said. “We think there are other, more efficient ways to do it than an hourly, intercity train
Cegelis was speaking to leaders of the Central Florida Expressway Authority, the region’s toll-road agency, which owns much of S.R. 417 and S.R. 528, and is to grant a lease for Brightline rail corridor for either of the two roads.
Authority board member Jay Madara pushed back at Brightline’s preference for S.R. 417 as missing an opportunity to connect I-Drive industry with the airport, and asked for further analysis on costs and other factors.
The other board members, including Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer and Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, offered no indication of their preference."
"Local agencies owning land or having a say in a Brightline corridor include the expressway authority, the airport authority, Orlando Utilities Commission and the commission of local leaders governing the SunRail commuter train system.
The two alternative routes between the airport and Disney are the same length, Cegelis said, at about 16.7 miles. The S.R. 417 route was drawn by Brightline, while the S.R. 528 route was envisioned in 2010 for an ill-fated proposal for high-speed rail between Tampa and Orlando. Brightline staff and contractors developed cost estimates for both routes.
Cegelis stressed key comparisons between the two.
The S.R. 417 alignment would cost $1.03 billion, require 342,000 square feet of bridges, involve three private properties and offer efficient sharing of corridor space with a proposed SunRail link between the airport and its main line.
The S.R. 528 alignment would cost $2.1 billion, require 1.9 million square feet of bridges, affect 76 private properties and involve a complex arrangement with SunRail.
From Disney to Tampa, Brightline would follow Interstate 4 right-of-way. Track development in the Tampa Bay area also would be very complex, Cegelis said, without offering many details for that section.
“Anytime you are doing a project like this, it’s a challenge,” Cegelis said."
Brightline reveals cost details and route choices for Disney service in 5 years
Brightline disclosed on Thursday its most detailed explanation so far on costs for a corridor between the airport and a Disney World station, preferring a $1 billion route piggybacking on Road 417 …
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corran horn
Well-Known Member
There's at least one school on that route. Maybe two? Probably a dozen housing developments or more.
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Which has no bearing on safety which I'm guessing was your angle with mentioning the schools. It will be grade separated just like 417. They bought next to a major highway, and there are sound walls up for some subdivisions already. It's not like Brightline trains will be sounding loud horns the entire way through the 417 ROW, just the sound of its movement.
homerdance
Well-Known Member
A majority of that portion of the build already has track on it, or has an easement for it.