Hearing news of a monorail crash today.

[AEfx]

Accidents happen...I get that. But the frequency of these given such a small area that the monorail actually covers is really alarming. When you talk about actual foot length of track, it does seem rather accident prone comparatively.

Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 years old why the entire thing isn't run/managed by computers at this point to prevent what usually seems to be "operator error"?

 

[Jahona]

Accidents happen...I get that. But the frequency of these given such a small area that the monorail actually covers is really alarming. When you talk about actual foot length of track, it does seem rather accident prone comparatively.

Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 years old why the entire thing isn't run/managed by computers at this point to prevent what usually seems to be "operator error"?

They are trying to do that with the automation of the fleet. Unfortunately Thales seems to be incompetent when it comes to this and the project has had countless issues.

 

[ford91exploder]

Accidents happen...I get that. But the frequency of these given such a small area that the monorail actually covers is really alarming. When you talk about actual foot length of track, it does seem rather accident prone comparatively.

Can someone explain to me like I'm 5 years old why the entire thing isn't run/managed by computers at this point to prevent what usually seems to be "operator error"?

The short answer would be 'it costs money' If I had to guess and I'm guessing here is Disney has spread this project out to keep cash requirements low, And because they are proceeding so slowly engineers are cycled through the project so in effect every time a train is automated the engineer is doing it for the 'First' time because Thales cannot afford to pay an engineer to do nothing, Had they done them all at once and disabled the automation till tested I suspect the project would have gone MUCH better. But now the same rookie mistakes keep getting made because effectively the drawn out timeline means there is no crew transfer from one train to another.

Of course automation installation would have been an ideal time to pull all the covers and clean up not only would this facilitate faster installation and debugging of the electronics it would have facilitated an in place rehab of the trains.

 

[DDLand]

That was day 1 of Disney'


That was Day 1 of Disney Parks - the book on show had not even been written yet, Nice try though still does not excuse parking a crashed vehicle in full sight of every guest going through the TTC - Just perhaps they could have moved just OUTSIDE the TTC where its condition was not so glaringly obvious.

This post has a photo of what it actually was like in the TTC:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/hearing-news-of-a-monorail-crash-today.907499/page-6#post-6984890

Not a problem seeing as the damaged side of the monorail would've been facing non guest accessible areas. I think they handled it well. The actual crash occurred between Contemporary and TTC if I'm not mistaken. Everything points to the damaged end facing the Contemporary and not towards the TTC. So Tractor 2 was brought around through MK, GFR, PVR, and TTC before finally being able to connect with the undamaged side.Then they pulled her into the station.

Seeing as pushing the other way would've involved pushing the monorail through the Contemporary in the middle of the day; that seems to be a non starter.

Looking at the problem they faced, I couldn't have come up with a better way of handling it to keep guests shielded from seeing the monorail in that state.

 

[s8film40]

They are trying to do that with the automation of the fleet. Unfortunately Thales seems to be incompetent when it comes to this and the project has had countless issues.

What exactly leads you to believe Thales is incompetent?

The only issues I've heard revolved around Disney getting in the way of Thales. This accident will certainly set them back. This will probably mean more work on Thales part to make up for Disney's incompetence in towing a train.

 

[PhotoDave219]

What exactly leads you to believe Thales is incompetent?

The only issues I've heard revolved around Disney getting in the way of Thales. This accident will certainly set them back. This will probably mean more work on Thales part to make up for Disney's incompetence in towing a train.

Ask @marni1971 about Thales, he's followed it pretty close.

 

[s8film40]

Ask @marni1971 about Thales, he's followed it pretty close.

I've been getting some occasional updates on it myself, I haven't been led to question Thales competency during the project.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I've been getting some occasional updates on it myself, I haven't been led to question Thales competency during the project.

There's been overseas projects in his neck of the woods. He knows more about it than me.

 

[marni1971]

There's been overseas projects in his neck of the woods. He knows more about it than me.

This should shed some light on my local project. Not the be all and end all of course but not exactly stellar.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...olink-tram-bosses-and-signalling-firm-1209507

 

[Jahona]

What exactly leads you to believe Thales is incompetent?

The only issues I've heard revolved around Disney getting in the way of Thales. This accident will certainly set them back. This will probably mean more work on Thales part to make up for Disney's incompetence in towing a train.

Marni mentioned it a while back which made me curious so I looked into it more. There are several articles about issues with Thales. Some of their projects go ok, others have had countless issues. With today's modern technology automation isn't a hard thing to accomplish. I've seen it done with on several levels. Although these systems were put into place by Bombardier.

 

[ford91exploder]

Marni mentioned it a while back which made me curious so I looked into it more. There are several articles about issues with Thales. Some of their projects go ok, others have had countless issues. With today's modern technology automation isn't a hard thing to accomplish. I've seen it done with on several levels. Although these systems were put into place by Bombardier.

One has to remember that THALES is primarily a defense contractor and as such is used to cost plus contracts because governments generally have an unlimited budget for defense related items. This gets into the weeds on commercial contracts because estimating tends to get sloppy when the majority of of contracts are cost plus. Unlike in the commercial world where they are usually fixed cost + penalty if late and (bonus if early).

 

[flynnibus]

Disneyland Opening Day.....mistakes were made even then.

So your argument is after 60yrs... You expect no improvements? Do your parents still poop in their shorts? Should be normal since that's what happened before right?

 

[s8film40]

I don't think not having characters with their heads off in public is an improvement in show but rather a shift in the approach. When DL opened characters were an afterthought and I don't think they had the very strict notion as they do now days that the costumed characters are actually supposed to be the real characters but rather performers playing those characters.

 

[imkrazy182]

One has to remember that THALES is primarily a defense contractor and as such is used to cost plus contracts because governments generally have an unlimited budget for defense related items. This gets into the weeds on commercial contracts because estimating tends to get sloppy when the majority of of contracts are cost plus. Unlike in the commercial world where they are usually fixed cost + penalty if late and (bonus if early).

I honestly had no idea Thales was anything else but a US defense contactor.

 

[ford91exploder]

I honestly had no idea Thales was anything else but a US defense contactor.

Actually they are majority French with some UK ownership.

 

[JoeCamel]

I honestly had no idea Thales was anything else but a US defense contactor.

Well... They are installing those rocket launchers on the cabs..........

 

[Flalex72]

Actually they are majority French with some UK ownership.

But the rail signalling division is headquartered in Toronto.

Saying that Thales is accustomed to cost plus defense contracts makes it seem like they are a group of people who stopped making missile defense systems and started making railway signalling. In reality, in a company this diverse, each division is itss own little business with very little overlap with other sectors.

People also mention Bombardier, but they've had their fare share of signalling contracts go bad too.

 

[ford91exploder]

But the rail signalling division is headquartered in Toronto.

Saying that Thales is accustomed to cost plus defense contracts makes it seem like they are a group of people who stopped making missile defense systems and started making railway signalling. In reality, in a company this diverse, each division is itss own little business with very little overlap with other sectors.

People also mention Bombardier, but they've had their fare share of signalling contracts go bad too.

Having dealt with as a vendor many companies like THALES with roots in the defense industry I assure you they all act the same. Underbid the contract and then try and squeeze you into paying for 'overages' and 'scope changes' wherupon one calls corporate counsel to educate them on the contract that they signed.

This mentality is in the corporate DNA, The only time you don't see stuff like this is when dealing with a company who has recently been aquired by a defense contractor.

They don't call these guys 'The Beltway Bandits' for nothing.

 

[Flalex72]

Having dealt with as a vendor many companies like THALES with roots in the defense industry I assure you they all act the same. Underbid the contract and then try and squeeze you into paying for 'overages' and 'scope changes' wherupon one calls corporate counsel to educate them on the contract that they signed.

This mentality is in the corporate DNA, The only time you don't see stuff like this is when dealing with a company who has recently been aquired by a defense contractor.

They don't call these guys 'The Beltway Bandits' for nothing.

I think you're being to nice limiting yourself to the defense industry. What you describe sounds like most government contractors actually.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think you're being to nice limiting yourself to the defense industry. What you describe sounds like most government contractors actually.

You will find most government contractors are also defense contractors example for state government and healthcare one of the biggest contractors around is Lockheed-Martin not a name one normally associate with healthcare.

Probably a better term would be 'Government Services Contractor' some build stuff that goes boom others don't but it all costs way too much for whats actually delivered in the end.