Harry Potter IS making a difference!!

[wm49rs]

:lol:Yeah.

Hard to say when those big projects will have a chance to circle back around.
The mindset at Disney right now is that every capital project has to be able to justify it's existence in dollars and cents. Gone are the days of building a ride to "plus the show" or to exceed guest expectations. If the sharp-pencil boys don't see a spreadsheet that tells exactly how long it'll take to earn back it's cost and start showing a profit, no project has a chance of moving forward.

Let me ask, is that mindset found out in DL as well, or is it currently unique to WDW?

 

[SeaCastle]

And what was on the table to be exact?

From a post earlier this year (with what I added in brackets):

Mermaid
Space Mountain 2.0 [Not the half-@$$sed version we got now.]
Imagination 4
Showcase project [I'm not sure if this is Germany or Japan or maybe something else.]
Skydance
M:I Coaster / PP west
'Lucasland'
DAK phased Mountain project [From Martin: Something Mysterious but new. Possibly a phased project where the buildings could be built first and the interiors added as and when.]

 

[Lee]

Let me ask, is that mindset found out in DL as well, or is it currently unique to WDW?

It's all part of the modern "Disney Parks" philosophy. It's everywhere.

 

[Ignohippo]

LegoLand would have much more substantial an impact if it would've been built on Universal property. With HP and Legoland in one location, Uni would've finally begun eroding the families from WDW. IMO, Blackstone/Merlin have missed a major opportunity. They stepped over a dollar to pick up a dime on this one.

As it is, the Cypress Gardens site is too far away and too much of a pain for tourists to consider wandering off Disney property to go and visit. I can't see too many families picking a 1/2 day of Legoland vs. a day at any on the Disney Parks – especially since there are many more Legolands around the country and world than there are the unique WDW parks.

Where Legoland will hurt (especially in 2011) is the folks who live here in Florida. In 2011, locals may decide to skip WDW annual passes for time at Uni for Potter (since many locals have stayed away so far fearing large crowds) and a few days at Legoland. The fact that there will be nothing extraordinary in WDW in 2011 is going to absolutely KILL them.

I'm sure they know it and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see BatB and TLM fasttracked and opened some time in 2011 while they work on the rest of the FLE. Getting those areas open and Star Tours 2 online in mid-2011 would save the year for them.

As for Potter, I'm sure around the time FLE is ready to open Uni will unveil the plans for the PotterLand expansion. The Potter area will have longevity for 5-10 years and then it will die just like Jurassic Park unless more books/movies revive the franchise. Uni needs to be extremely careful or they may be putting too many eggs in one basket. In 15 years, they could be left with aging franchises (especially if Potter ends up being almost 1/3 of the park) and no Marvel in the parks. Harry Potter is no Star Wars. The sad thing is, Uni has done HP well while Disney is wasting their opportunity with Star Wars.

I'm also surprised Uni isn't mirroring the Transformers attraction for their parks here in Florida. HP is great, but they need to continue to keep the parks fresh and diverse.

 

[hoke2007]

Why do you think?
$

Meaning that it would cost money? :ROFLOL:


I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this at all. I haven't been to WDW since Christmas '07 and I'm finally going back next March. And what has been added since then? Toy Story Mania and The American Idol Experience. Pretty pathetic that in 3.5 years only two new attractions have opened up. I remember the good old days where every year they were adding cool new things to WDW. I miss that.

 

[Flip83]

Uni adding a fan popular Harry Potter land will help Disney start to really get them getting new things going. It's all a matter of patience. Which little seem to have.

My aunt n uncle live right around there. They have lived there for 4 years. First 3 years they had a WDW Annual Pass. This year wanted to do something different with a Uni Annual Pass. My Aunt said she would never do it again. Most if her neighbors have warned her too, but she didn't listen. She said it became so old, so fast. They all LOVE harry potter books/movies. She said it was very cool looking, but they saw it a few times and was bored of it. Universal will never have the replay value that Disney has. We went last June, and after we went for half a day at Universal, we said "Ya know, I dont have to go there for 5 more years". It's boring. It doesnt have that Magical feel that Disney has. we can go to Disney twice a year, and we never get tired of it. So much more to do and see in WDW

 

[pax_65]

Gone are the days of building a ride to ... exceed guest expectations.

This rang a bell with me because I can remember the days when you would watch the construction of a new attraction with so much excitement... no, it was more like AWE. I remember seeing Splash Mountain rise up over Frontierland... Tower of Terror rising up above MGM... hearing the cars running for the first time at Test Track and saying "Wow! What was that?"

You had so much anticipation and build-up for these rides... and then you rode them. And the reaction was "WOW! This is even better than I hoped it would be!"

Now think, when was the last time you felt that way on a new (or refurbed) Disney attraction?

I haven't ridden HP yet (will ride on my next trip), but from all reports this attraction is blowing people away - exceeding already-high expectations.

Disney needs to WAKE UP.

 

[Jrn14]

Uni adding a fan popular Harry Potter land will help Disney start to really get them getting new things going. It's all a matter of patience. Which little seem to have.

My aunt n uncle live right around there. They have lived there for 4 years. First 3 years they had a WDW Annual Pass. This year wanted to do something different with a Uni Annual Pass. My Aunt said she would never do it again. Most if her neighbors have warned her too, but she didn't listen. She said it became so old, so fast. They all LOVE harry potter books/movies. She said it was very cool looking, but they saw it a few times and was bored of it. Universal will never have the replay value that Disney has. We went last June, and after we went for half a day at Universal, we said "Ya know, I dont have to go there for 5 more years". It's boring. It doesnt have that Magical feel that Disney has. we can go to Disney twice a year, and we never get tired of it. So much more to do and see in WDW

I do agree, that the one thing Disney really has over Universal is the nostaglia, the magic, the timeless and inversive feel, but to say Universal is "boring" "can be done in 1/2 a day every five years" is a sediment that I would find unique to people who don't like theme parks or people who are drinking Disney Kool-Aid.

Universal has many top quality attractions and every time I visit I feel like their quality and show is getting better. They have a lot to offer and I don't understand how anyone who claims to love Disney wouldn't be entertained by a park that has top notch disneyesque attractions... and I'm not just talking about Potter.

Even my 60+ y/o parents went to Universal and they thought it was quite fun and amazing and next time they are in Orlando they are going back

 

[bjlc57]

You're not alone.
It says something when well-known Disney Imagineers walk off Forbidden Journey and say "That's the kind of thing we used to do."


They did have some things planned. Emphasis on did.
They had "Potter Swatter" concepts for all three parks. All of them are now off the table for the forseeable future.


FLE can not, will not, and was never meant to be a counter to Potter.
It is being built to address the capacity issues at MK, which it will definately do. However, it is not expected to provide a large attendance boost to the park. It will simply give those who would already be at MK something else to do.



Counter attack? Disney?
I don't think so. I have no knowledge of anything they are up to that would constitute a counter attack to HP.


I disagree with the "flash in a pan" description. Forbidden Journey will prove to have massive staying power as a ride. Much like Tower, Spidey and Indy.

well said Lee..

and I have been saying the same thing.. WDW is now run by bean counters instead of Dreamers.. the only Dreams that now come true at WDW , is if you get to stay at the castle..

but to raise the rate, or count the heads.. Yep.. we know how to do that..

but as I have been saying for years.. Raising rates, without anything new, means getting close to the balance point of tipping away from people coming to the parks.. and its getting closer every year..

the big problem is IF YOU CROSS THAT BALANCE POINT, how hard it would be to get back to the other side..

its still basic economics.. you raise rates, less items are sold.. however the elasticity is starting to hit the breaking point.. and if you do,

you may NEVER regain the magic that you once had..

Walt would never stand for this.. He was a dreamer and a DO ER ...

and while some one else always had to come up with the money to do the dream, THEY ALWAYS DID..

then Disney sat on this ton of money.. and instead of reinvesting it into the parks with expansion or the up keep, they just sat on it..

In Business if you are standing still, you are losing ground.. there is no standind still .. either you are going forward , or going backward..

and right now.. THE DISNEY WORLD AREA is going backward. and it increases at an increasing rate of speed on a daily basis..


just like GM , its time to fire the bean counters, and bring the dreamers back in... or suffer the same fate as GM... and lose it all..

 

[bjlc57]

let me also say.. that if this same mentality was in effect when Walt decided to build Disney land.. it NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN BUILT.. nor would Disney World..

they both were a Leap of Faith..

and thats all gone now in the Disney management team.

all gone..

 

[Monsterfan99]

LegoLand would have much more substantial an impact if it would've been built on Universal property. With HP and Legoland in one location, Uni would've finally begun eroding the families from WDW. IMO, Blackstone/Merlin have missed a major opportunity. They stepped over a dollar to pick up a dime on this one.

The biggest problem is the Lego parks do not/will not work with the other parks Blackstone owns. They plan to compete against Universal and Sea World Parks in FL. It's the idea of "you are part of our company, but not our division so you are competition" idea that could hurt all the non-WDW parks.

 

[fillerup]

If the analysts are correct, then:

Analysts say Potter frenzy will last

"It is the central question facing Universal Orlando right now: How long will the Harry Potter-fueled attendance surge last?

"Several years," predicts Moody's Investors Service.

In a research note issued earlier this month, analysts at the ratings firm say they expect that Wizarding World of Harry Potter will continue to drive attendance through 2011 and beyond.

"We believe the attendance lift generated from the June 2010 opening of WWHP will continue for the next several years," Moody's analyst John Puchalla wrote in the note."

O'Sentinel Full Article

 

[Alektronic]

well said Lee..

and I have been saying the same thing.. WDW is now run by bean counters instead of Dreamers.. the only Dreams that now come true at WDW , is if you get to stay at the castle..

And that is what worries me about Tom Staggs, he was the CFO "head beancounter" for the Disney company for 12 years. Now he is the chairman of Parks and Resorts. So if anyone knows how to squeeze extra pennies out, it is him.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

^ So basically, the article says that people will still be going to see Harry Potter in the coming years. Well there's some great insight.

 

[pax_65]

^ So basically, the article says that people will still be going to see Harry Potter in the coming years. Well there's some great insight.

Seems obvious to me, too, but some people on these boards think HP is no big deal as far as attendance patterns go. So I guess it needs to be said.

What Disney fails to understand is that this will affect the bottom line. Many people who travel to Disney regularly will be spending more time out of Disney parks than in years past. It might only be a day or two, but that will add up - not only in revenue spent in the parks but also on park passes. Instead of buying a 7-day hopper you might buy a 5-day since 2 days will be spent in Universal.

Plus, now that you've rented a car to get to Universal, you're free to drive out off Disney property for dining, shopping, etc.

 

[Ignohippo]

The biggest problem is the Lego parks do not/will not work with the other parks Blackstone owns. They plan to compete against Universal and Sea World Parks in FL. It's the idea of "you are part of our company, but not our division so you are competition" idea that could hurt all the non-WDW parks.

Absolutely correct. Legoland was a perfect fit for Universal to become a family destination. I'm also thinking they were wanting to do it on the cheap and loved the idea of being able to reduce costs by renovating an existing park. Unfortunately, a theme park can't survive in that location. There's too much competition in Orlando for people to drive that far away. I'm sure Legoland will do well with locals for the first few years but I wouldn't be surprised to see it closed by year 20. They've made a huge mistake with the location.

It'll be interesting to see how Universal plays Potter. I think it's too soon to announce the expansion (besides, it may make people wait to visit the park until the entire area is completed). I could see them announcing something like Transformers for 2012 and then announcing the Potter expansion in 2012 (around the time the FLE is opening) for an opening in 2013. They can't wait too long and will need to strike while the iron is hot.

 

[captainkidd]

Seems obvious to me, too, but some people on these boards think HP is no big deal as far as attendance patterns go. So I guess it needs to be said.

What Disney fails to understand is that this will affect the bottom line. Many people who travel to Disney regularly will be spending more time out of Disney parks than in years past. It might only be a day or two, but that will add up - not only in revenue spent in the parks but also on park passes. Instead of buying a 7-day hopper you might buy a 5-day since 2 days will be spent in Universal.

Plus, now that you've rented a car to get to Universal, you're free to drive out off Disney property for dining, shopping, etc.

Or maybe people will just take longer trips.

I'm sorry. I know I'm not a fan of Harry Potter, but anyone who would spend thousands of dollars on flights, hotels, and passes just to see that one small section of the park, is crazy. Don't get me wrong - It's theme beautifully, but it's like going to visit Tomorrowland.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Or maybe people will just take longer trips.

Doubtful unless they are foreigners. Americans are already vacationing at their max when they visit Walt Disney World, which means a trip to Universal is going to be a day away from Disney.

I'm sorry. I know I'm not a fan of Harry Potter, but anyone who would spend thousands of dollars on flights, hotels, and passes just to see that one small section of the park, is crazy. Don't get me wrong - It's theme beautifully, but it's like going to visit Tomorrowland.

I bought a Premier Annual Pass just so I can go back. Will be going for the second time this year in December. I have yet to read a book or watch any of the movies.

 

[Jrn14]

Don't forget there is other cool stuff to do at US besides Potter... I think MIB, Simpsons, Spiderman, Mummy, ET, Jaws, Jurassic Park, Disaster etc... all a blast... not to mention all the coasters...

 

[pax_65]

Or maybe people will just take longer trips.

With the economy the way it is, I doubt it.

I'm sorry. I know I'm not a fan of Harry Potter, but anyone who would spend thousands of dollars on flights, hotels, and passes just to see that one small section of the park, is crazy. Don't get me wrong - It's theme beautifully, but it's like going to visit Tomorrowland.

I think most people who make the trip will do all of Universal and hit Disney too. That's why the prevailing logic has always been that anything Universal does will only help Disney since it will draw more people to Orlando.

But Harry Potter is so popular that it will pull the regular Disney guests away from Disney. So I would think the net will be a loss for Disney, and it appears the numbers are showing that.

A big, new attraction is a reason to visit again - to experience something new. It's not the only reason, but it might be the #1 reason. It was the same with Splash Mountain, Everest, Tower or Terror, etc. Disney built ads around the new attractions. "Come see the all-new Tower of Terror!"

Right now Disney is drawing people in with deep discounts instead of new attractions. As I've said before, it's a downward spiral - lower prices, lower quality, decreased loyalty. New attractions bring repeat guests who want to see the higher quality experience - higher prices, higher quality, increased loyalty. That's the model Disney used to have during the expansion years of the 1990s.