Harry Potter IS making a difference!!

[xdan0920]

Just wanted to say that I'm in the twenty something range too, but I only consider Potter as a annoying little blip of my preteen life. I read the first 4 books, but by then I had graduated to reading adult authors. I can't stand Potter now...Star Trek was a much larger part of my childhood .

I still only see HP as a fad...and that Uni jumped on the bandwagon. Albeit this fad has been around for 11 years now, but I still don't think it has the staying power of Star Wars and/or Trek. And when I read that Sentinal article, all I really got out of it was that Disney wasn't releasing their separate attendence figures and that attendance is pretty much flat, in the meantime Uni is up. I failed to see how that means Uni is making a difference on Disney though.

Rates on mortgages are very good now btw you should look into it!

Harry as a fad? I would love if you could come up with something to support that. It is the biggest book series in history and the biggest movie series in history. More people have seen or read Harry, then know who Luke Skywalker even is.

 

[slappy magoo]

You completely ignore the option of Disney putting in the effort to make a Walt Disney World vacation worth what Disney is charging.

Because I don't see that particularly happening either.

The cutting back and doing less while discounting only hurts the brand and what people are willing to spend. It drives the resort and its experience down from something "Disney" to something ordinary. The discounting undermines the idea of Disney as something special and unique. The cutting back and resting on laurels weakens the perceived value. The rampant price increases just exacerbate the previous two problems.

We're kind of arguing in circles here, so we may just have to agree to disagree. You're arguing that the discounts hurt the brand. I'm arguing that they're raising the prices higher than the rates of inflation to keep the brand considered to be "premium," but it makes the discounts necessary to keep much of its loyal fan base, the ones who return once every one to three years if not more, coming back.

The cutting back and doing less while discounting only hurts the brand and what people are willing to spend. It drives the resort and its experience down from something "Disney" to something ordinary. The discounting undermines the idea of Disney as something special and unique. The cutting back and resting on laurels weakens the perceived value. The rampant price increases just exacerbate the previous two problems.

Reducing prices is not going to increase guest spending. The prices are already reduced via the discounts, and instead of spending the saved money, people are just keeping it. People will just follow course if prices are permanently lowered to their discounted level, and then you have the problem of getting rid of the extra money from those who did pay full price.

I disagree with how you get to your conclusion. Your argument almost seems to be that people don't want to spend their money at Disney. I think people love spending money on WDW souvenirs, but can't. I think what we're seeing, with the state of the economy being what it is, is people who were planning to go to WDW for quite some time still keeping their vacation plans, economy be damned, but they're pinching a few pennies along the way by not shopping as much. We're also seeing regular WDW visitors also feeling the economic pinch, but still jonesing for their Disney magic, taking advantage of the promotions being offered but again, something has to be sacrificed in the vacation budget, and it seems to be the bells and whistles. One way to find out who's right is if attendance remains flat or goes down next year. As I wrote, a lot of people plan a vacation like WDW, which is not cheap no matter how many promotions WDW offers, a long way in advance. Now that the economy has been in the dumper for a couple of years, those that planned to do their big trip have gone, those that weren't planning one, aren't. This will be reflected in future rounds of attendance numbers, which is why this past report, Disney lumped WDW AND DL attendance figures together in one number, instead of breaking it down park by park. And they plan on doing this for the foreseeable future, which they wouldn't do unless they have some particularly lousy numbers they're trying to hide, and anticipate some more damaging numbers going forward.

 

[Krack]

I still only see HP as a fad...and that Uni jumped on the bandwagon. Albeit this fad has been around for 11 years now, but I still don't think it has the staying power of Star Wars and/or Trek.

In the interests of establishing my "neutral observer" credentials - I have never read the Harry Potter books, I saw one movie (got dragged there by a niece), I have almost zero interest in the Harry Potter franchise, and have never been to WWoHP (I'll probably get there eventually). All of that said, "fads" don't last 11 years. When you look at the list of things that have maintained anything more than minimal popularity in pop-culture for more than 11 years, you are looking at a very short list (in no particular order) ...

Star Wars
Star Trek
James Bond
Indiana Jones
Doctor Who
Batman
Superman
Spider-Man
The Hulk
The Lord of the Rings
Narnia
The Terminator
Oprah
The whole Daytime Soap Opera genre (no appeal to children)
The whole Game Show genre (Jeopardy, Price is Right, Wheel of Fortune, Family Feud)
The whole Late Night talk show genre (Letterman, Leno, Conan)
Muppets/Sesame Street
Saturday Night Live
The Simpsons
WWF Professional Wrestling
King Arthur
Flash Gordon (maybe?)
Willy Wonka (maybe?)
Various Disney properties


I'm sure there are a couple more that I missed, but off the top of my head, that's a short list. And Harry Potter's popularity isn't at the bottom of that list either - my nieces and nephews won't shut up about it (especially the 12 year old who basically grew up on it).

 

[HMF]

Just wanted to say that I'm in the twenty something range too, but I only consider Potter as a annoying little blip of my preteen life. I read the first 4 books, but by then I had graduated to reading adult authors. I can't stand Potter now...Star Trek was a much larger part of my childhood .

I still only see HP as a fad...and that Uni jumped on the bandwagon. Albeit this fad has been around for 11 years now, but I still don't think it has the staying power of Star Wars and/or Trek. And when I read that Sentinal article, all I really got out of it was that Disney wasn't releasing their separate attendence figures and that attendance is pretty much flat, in the meantime Uni is up. I failed to see how that means Uni is making a difference on Disney though.

Rates on mortgages are very good now btw you should look into it!

Most fads don't last for over 12 years.

 

[devoy1701]

I just want to say that my peers and myself-- the 20-somethings who have money to spend now and soon will be taking their own families on vacation-- grew up with Potter. Literally. Harry is as much a part of our childhood as Lion King, LM, and BatB. Maybe even more so because Potter came on the scene as many of us were starting to transition into teenagers, so our memories are more vivid. As we grew up, Harry grew up too. I think there is definitely a sense of nostalgia for this age group. If you could have seen the demographic for HP7 opening day, you might understand a little more fully.

My point is that when I go on vacation, with all that money to spend because of my lack of mortgage and children, I want to go see WWoHP. I've been to WDW. It's the same as when I went a couple of years ago. I want to try butterbeer and buy some candy and explore the world of HP that I loved to read about. And I'm pretty sure I'm not alone.

In the interests of establishing my "neutral observer" credentials - I have never read the Harry Potter books, I saw one movie (got dragged there by a niece), I have almost zero interest in the Harry Potter franchise, and have never been to WWoHP (I'll probably get there eventually). All of that said, "fads" don't last 11 years. When you look at the list of things that have maintained anything more than minimal popularity in pop-culture for more than 11 years, you are looking at a very short list (in no particular order) ...

Star Wars
Star Trek
James Bond
Indiana Jones
Doctor Who
Batman
Superman
Spider-Man
The Hulk
The Lord of the Rings
Narnia
The Terminator
Oprah
The whole Daytime Soap Opera genre (no appeal to children)
The whole Game Show genre (Jeopardy, Price is Right, Wheel of Fortune, Family Feud)
The whole Late Night talk show genre (Letterman, Leno, Conan)
Muppets/Sesame Street
Saturday Night Live
The Simpsons
WWF Professional Wrestling


I'm sure there are a couple more that I missed, but off the top of my head, that's a short list. And Harry Potter's popularity isn't at the bottom of that list either - my nieces and nephews won't shut up about it (especially the 12 year old who basically grew up on it).

perhaps "fad" was the wrong word and more based on personal sentiment of disbelief that such a thing as HP can define my generation....yuck.

I still will wondering if it will have staying power in another 20 years. I can't imagine people saying "wow, look what a marvelous breakthrough in story telling and technology this Harry Potter thing was". It's popularity I think is more based on good marketing and brainwashed young children having their parents buy them all the books and take them to all the movies and now taking them to Uni than it being an awe inspiring saga.

 

[bjlc57]

Exactly. They public is now "spoiled" by heavy room discounts, free or discounted dining, and Magic Your Way tickets. Disney MUST begin to work it's way back to a normal, pre-9/11 pricing structure if they don't want to really be suffering down the road. They should go cold-turkey. Eliminate all discounting, deal with the short-term backlash, and try to get back on track before it's too late.


Bingo.

well Lee , the parks are now over priced as they are.. so if they are going to eliminate discounting.. then they need to drop the price for the parks across the board.
and no more of this, once a year price raise. not until its worth the money.

see it works both ways.. and Disney has OVER PRICED THEMSELVES.


and here is really happens.. One year you peak out at ALL TIME record profits.. and then the slide begins.. so you " raise price" now you have broken the price margin.. and now profit slips.. and then slips more. and the more you "raise price " to bring in that profit.. the more you are out pricing your self.. until you end up with Tavern on the Green situation..
suddenly only the elite can come.. but there are not enough elite coming.. and now, they see that "less people are coming" and they stop coming.. because no one wants to go to a place where no one comes to any more..

Disney has been walking a very fine line. too fine.. and if they continue to increase pricing.. especially above the cost of living rate, which they have done many years now, or the cost of inflation, they will cross that line..


right now, without discounts, Walt Disney World is over priced.

that's a simple factual statement.

Lee you say Cold Turkey.. fine.. but then put the price where it should be and not where it is.. right now.. its too high..

 

[MAF]

Anyone who claims that HP isn't affecting Disney is in serious denial. Too bad they have nothing in the pipeline to counter them.

 

[GLaDOS]

I still will wondering if it will have staying power in another 20 years. I can't imagine people saying "wow, look what a marvelous breakthrough in story telling and technology this Harry Potter thing was". It's popularity I think is more based on good marketing and brainwashed young children having their parents buy them all the books and take them to all the movies and now taking them to Uni than it being an awe inspiring saga.

You do know you're basically describing Walt's and Disney's strategy for getting people to buy stuff right?:lol: And considering the first wave of HP, the parents had NO idea what the books were, and the kids were the ones picking them up and falling in love. And THAT is the sign of a classic, timeless children's story.

I bet, with no actual proof, obviously, that Walt would have loved Harry. The world is imaginative, the story is an archetypal epic, and the characters are ones people care about.

 

[devoy1701]

You do know you're basically describing Walt's and Disney's strategy for getting people to buy stuff right?:lol: And considering the first wave of HP, the parents had NO idea what the books were, and the kids were the ones picking them up and falling in love. And THAT is the sign of a classic, timeless children's story.

I bet, with no actual proof, obviously, that Walt would have loved Harry. The world is imaginative, the story is an archetypal epic, and the characters are ones people care about.

no that was not Walt's strategy for getting people to buy stuff. He appealed to adults before he appealed to children and regularly defended his feature length animations as being not geared towards Children. In fact many of his early projects failed to meet expectations and the distributors did not market them very widely at all.

And Walt was actually very much detached from the marketing side of the operations until Television, the Disneyland TV show, and Disneyland came along.

 

[lazyboy97o]

We're kind of arguing in circles here, so we may just have to agree to disagree. You're arguing that the discounts hurt the brand. I'm arguing that they're raising the prices higher than the rates of inflation to keep the brand considered to be "premium," but it makes the discounts necessary to keep much of its loyal fan base, the ones who return once every one to three years if not more, coming back.

The discounting hurts the premium image because people know that the higher price is not the actual price. I am not saying to kill the discounts and keep raising prices, I think they need to be frozen for some time.

I disagree with how you get to your conclusion. Your argument almost seems to be that people don't want to spend their money at Disney. I think people love spending money on WDW souvenirs, but can't. I think what we're seeing, with the state of the economy being what it is, is people who were planning to go to WDW for quite some time still keeping their vacation plans, economy be damned, but they're pinching a few pennies along the way by not shopping as much.

This was the thinking, but Harry Potter has upset this balance. People are spending huge amounts at Universal.

 

[Flip83]

Anyone who claims that HP isn't affecting Disney is in serious denial. Too bad they have nothing in the pipeline to counter them.

If anyone thinks HP will affect Disney that bad, they are losing their mind. Get off the broom and come back to Earth. Harry Potter will never affect Disney in such a way to make them panic or push harder to rush a new project. It will do nothing. The families have always taken a couple days to visit US or SW. That won't change.

Most of the week in Disney (buying food, merchandise, lodging etc). Couple days of US park tickets and a sweet Harry Potter hat. Who's winning? Those same people rushing to get a new WWOHP shirt, are generally buying Disney merchandise during the same trip. They have a current boost in sales because the damn thing just opened. Such a dumb argument. It's really quite funny to see the Potter fans join together and talk down on Disney now that their wizarding world is open. Get over it sunshine. It will not affect Disney anymore than Universal ever has. Enjoy your Harry Potter Land, and leave it at that. Don't get your hopes up of it affecting Disney. It's not.

 

[Lee]

To some families the difference is adding literally $20 for an entire extra day for a family of three at WDW...

See that's a problem right there.
There is no way Disney should be letting guests into it's parks for $20 per day, no matter how long they are staying. Yes, it gets bodies into the park but in the long term does more harm than good. Wonder why no big rides are being built? That's a big reason why.

It's popularity I think is more based on good marketing and brainwashed young children having their parents buy them all the books and take them to all the movies and now taking them to Uni than it being an awe inspiring saga.

Not true at all.
I'm in my forties, and I LOVE every one of the Potter books. Read them all at least twice. They are simply that good. To dismiss them as children's stories that were marketed well is just not accurate, and is judging the phenomenon on an emotional basis instead of being objective.
And I'm not alone. I know lots of people my age, and older, who adore the Potter books and are anxious to get town to WWoHP. We are the ones who are funding the phenomenon as much as kids.
Myself, I've been over there twice, rode FJ about 8 times now, eaten much of the food, consumed my body weight in Butterbeer, and spent several hundred bucks on merch. Love it!

Now as for the discounting thing:
Yes. Ticket prices have been increased too fast. I agree with that. But they manage to justify it by offering the MYW structire where, as in the example above, guests can get in for as little as $20 per day. That gets guests in the gate, but strains the park without proper income. Thus little or no capital spending on the parks.
The old way was better. Prices were relatively kinda high, but you felt you were getting your money's worth. Nowdays, guests aren't happy unless they think they are getting one over on Disney, getting a huge bargain.
Disney did fine for all those years as an expensive, but worth it, vacation destination. Attendance didn't suffer in the eighties and nineties.

The problem is that the genie is out of the bottle. If they stop the discounting and just charge a normal, fair price for tickets, rooms, food and merch, guests will be asking "What kind of discount can I get?" or "What is the discount code?" or "Can I get free dining?"
When they are told no...they will think they are getting ripped off and not want to come. Discounting can not be allowed to continue to be the norm. It is a hugely destructive business model.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Most of the week in Disney (buying food, merchandise, lodging etc). Couple days of US park tickets and a sweet Harry Potter hat. Who's winning? Those same people rushing to get a new WWOHP shirt, are generally buying Disney merchandise during the same trip. They have a current boost in sales because the damn thing just opened. Such a dumb argument.

You are simply ignoring the reality of the situation and how bad guest spending has been slumping at Walt Disney World. People are buying significantly more than just a few hats or shirts.

Have you even been to the Wizarding World of Harry Potter?

 

[SeaCastle]

Here's a bright idea...charge a modest cover price to get into the parks and then charge individually to get on the rides.

Oh wait...

 

[Dragonrider1227]

I vote for a Pepperland section for Hollywood Studios. Disney IS making a Yellow Submarine remake, right?

 

[Lee]

If anyone thinks HP will affect Disney that bad, they are losing their mind. Get off the broom and come back to Earth. Harry Potter will never affect Disney in such a way to make them panic or push harder to rush a new project. It will do nothing. The families have always taken a couple days to visit US or SW. That won't change.

Not entirely correct.
I can state for a fact that Disney is not happy about the effect that Potter is having on them. They are in fact seeing guests take days off their trip to go to IoA. True, that has always happened to some extent, but nowhere near the level it has happened this year. It is having an effect on Disney's bottom line. Agreed, WDW's resort superiority will never be in doubt, but that extra money that is going to Uni instead of Disney is causing quite a few headaches.
And it is in fact lost days. According to what I am hearing from inside Disney, guests are not adding days to their trip for Uni, they are giving up a Disney day, or two.
Sorry if you don't like to hear that.
Also, the huge spotlight that Disney has enjoyed to itself in Orlando is now being eroded by Uni. More guests than ever, both international and domestic, are pointing to Universal as a reason to visit central Florida. That drives Disney nuts. Sure, they know competition is a good thing, but they really hate that they aren't the hot property in town right now. They have lost the bragging rights for best-themed area and best ride. They don't like that.

Enjoy your Harry Potter Land, and leave it at that. Don't get your hopes up of it affecting Disney. It's not.

Wow...you really seem to take the topic personally.:lol:
That view is very narrow minded. Every Disney fan, such as myself, needs to hope that Uni is able to erode quite a bit of Disney's good will, business and reputation. That may be the only way to get the mouse to rethink it's current business model of heavy discounting, low capital spending, product generalization and treading on it's past reputation.
It's called tough love, and Disney needs a heavy dose.

 

[Lee]

Here's a bright idea...charge a modest cover price to get into the parks and then charge individually to get on the rides.

Oh wait...

Actually, in many ways that was a superior method to what they are doing now.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

well Lee , the parks are now over priced as they are.. so if they are going to eliminate discounting.. then they need to drop the price for the parks across the board.
and no more of this, once a year price raise. not until its worth the money.

see it works both ways.. and Disney has OVER PRICED THEMSELVES.


and here is really happens.. One year you peak out at ALL TIME record profits.. and then the slide begins.. so you " raise price" now you have broken the price margin.. and now profit slips.. and then slips more. and the more you "raise price " to bring in that profit.. the more you are out pricing your self.. until you end up with Tavern on the Green situation..
suddenly only the elite can come.. but there are not enough elite coming.. and now, they see that "less people are coming" and they stop coming.. because no one wants to go to a place where no one comes to any more..

Disney has been walking a very fine line. too fine.. and if they continue to increase pricing.. especially above the cost of living rate, which they have done many years now, or the cost of inflation, they will cross that line..


right now, without discounts, Walt Disney World is over priced.

that's a simple factual statement.

Lee you say Cold Turkey.. fine.. but then put the price where it should be and not where it is.. right now.. its too high..

:lol:

 

[slappy magoo]

At this point, anyone taking flip83's arguments seriously deserves whatever agita he or she gets.

 

[Lee]

At this point, anyone taking flip83's arguments seriously deserves whatever agita he or she gets.

lol
Yeah...that occurred to me right after I posted my last response...:lol: