guests in wheelchairs

[slappy magoo]

if you're not diabled in any way, take solace in the fact that a: you're not disabled; b: you're not the sort of jerk0ff who'd pretend to be disabled for kicks, shorter wait times or other perks. And unless you have a third eye that allows you to look in a person's soul & know what ails them, don't waste precious brain cells wondering what they're getting over on WDW. Life's too short, and so is vacation time.

 

[Champion]

One thing I do love is that Disney is creating all the new queues so that they can accommodate the scooters, so that those using the scooters cannot also use them to skip the lines.

Secondly, pertaining to this comment "When I see people riding the motorized scooters for no other reason than because they are fat and too lazy to walk", Champion who are you to judge whether someone is legitimately in need of a wheel chair or not? Are you a doctor? Have you done a complete physical on them to make sure they are in need? If not, then you can't judge. No one can judge another's pain.

Ah, but thats exactly why I specified motorized scooters and NOT wheelchairs. Please don't try to twist my words. The two scenarios are completely different. Like I said, if someone takes the effort to either push themselves or have someone else push them, they are already well above the lazies on the scooters. And also, if they NEEDED the scooters so badly, they would have them in every day life. If that was the case, they wouldn't be so terrible at driving them. Into other people, off curbs, into walls - I've seen them hitting just about everything imaginable.

Here's an anecdote for you: On my last trip, I met a young woman who was missing both of her legs. She was 19. Yes, she lost them in Iraq. But you know what? She was pushing herself in a wheelchair. I spent over an hour talking to her about everything under the sun - we were at the same resort, and her group was swimming - and I said to her 'you could certainly get one of the scooters, you deserve it much more than most of them who are using them' and her response was simple: 'I still have my arms.'

We rented wheelchairs (manual push) for my mother every day last summer on our trip. She does not use a wheelchair normally, but has problems walking for any great length of time - after about an hour, she generally cannot walk anymore because of back and knee problems. In her daily life this isn't an issue, she just doesn't go anywhere that requires that much walking, and does things like shopping in small trips. But at WDW it was a major problem, since the rest of us wanted to do more than 1 hour of stuff a day without feeling like we were ditching my mother all day, or killing her by making her go at our pace! So the wheelchair was the answer. We DID NOT use it to skip any lines - we didn't get the disability pass - we just used it to push her around the park between attractions. She walked onto every single attraction, though the normal lines. We just made sure to fast pass everything we could, or picked things where the wait wasn't long. It allowed both her and my daughter to have an enjoyable vacation, and spend lots of time together.

So don't assume people use the wheelchairs just to bypass lines. Many who use them use them just to get around without extreme pain, and never ask to bypass a single line.

I would imagine that your mother is either a senior citizen or close to it. In that case, a wheelchair is perfectly acceptable. There is a big difference between her using it because her knees don't work like they used to and her using it simply because she doesn't want to walk.

Off topic: They do WONDERFUL things with knees now, I would let your mother know if she hasn't looked into it already. It can greatly enhance her quality of life for a relatively short period of recovery and rehab.

 

[Craig & Lisa]

wow ... knew I was gonna get ripped but ............... if I offended anyone I apologize .... my only intention was to duscuss if it was a real problem or not ... I in no way intended to offend anyone

First off, this observation is a very hot topic, so whether or not, you opened a can of worms. Second it is something that is a problem, we were there last week and noticed it a few times, but said nothing. However, before my mother-in-law passed away she had bad serculation (sp?) in her legs, she had to stop at least 2 times from the bus stop to the MK to rest, after which we got her a wheel chair, most times she would stand in line if it wasn't too long otherwise she would take the handicapped route, she didn't like it but sometimes she had no choice. But I never have made a comment to anyone in the chairs or vehicles. And have been lucky enough to not been hit by either, the baby carts yes but not the others.

 

[TwoTigersMom]

Ah, but thats exactly why I specified motorized scooters and NOT wheelchairs. Please don't try to twist my words. The two scenarios are completely different.

ok then I will rephrase my comment in my above post:

Secondly, pertaining to this comment "When I see people riding the motorized scooters for no other reason than because they are fat and too lazy to walk", Champion who are you to judge whether someone is legitimately in need of a wheel chair/motorized scooter or not? Are you a doctor? Have you done a complete physical on them to make sure they are in need? If not, then you can't judge. No one can judge another's pain.

I am not twisting anyone's words. Whether someone needs a wheelchair or a motorized scooter is for them to decide, not you or anyone else. The scenarios are in no way different.

 

[OhioDisneyLover]

My 2 cents: DH is a disabled war veteran (Gulf War). He blew out is back so bad that on his final 6 month cruise, he had to be on pain medication and off his feet because the hospital on board was not equipped to operate on the injury he had and they were in the middle of the ocean (he was in the Navy) and could not fly him home. Once he got home, he had major surgery and 10 years later he is still no better. In fact, he is worse. On top of one disk gone and 2 blown, he now has stenosis in both his upper and lower back. He has pain blocks every year or so...series of 3 at a time because doctors say he is too young for another surgery and "has to wait". The medications that they have/had him on caused serious weight gain which is next to impossible for him to lose. He was discharged as a 60% disabled vet for life and said he'd do it again if he could....serve in the military, that is. He has a blue parking pass which he rarely uses. When we go to WDW he tries really, really hard to go without the scooter. Sometimes there are days when the pain is so bad that I beg him to get one because I can see how bad he is suffering, but most of the time he will hobble along because he doesn't want people to think that he's a "fat guy trying to be lazy." He is very careful to not run into anyone. He doesn't use the horn....he will wait until the path is clear. There are times when he can get out of the scooter and wait in a line .... but within 15-20 minutes, he's in a heap of pain again. It annoys me when people jump to conclusions about people using scooters.

Hmm, maybe he should wear a sign on his back....disabled war veteran...wanna see my scar???

 

[Champion]

ok then I will rephrase my comment in my above post:

Secondly, pertaining to this comment "When I see people riding the motorized scooters for no other reason than because they are fat and too lazy to walk", Champion who are you to judge whether someone is legitimately in need of a wheel chair/motorized scooter or not? Are you a doctor? Have you done a complete physical on them to make sure they are in need? If not, then you can't judge. No one can judge another's pain.

I am not twisting anyone's words. Whether someone needs a wheelchair or a motorized scooter is for them to decide, not you or anyone else. The scenarios are in no way different.

Its completely for them to decide? Come on, do you know what world we live in? Everyone wants something easy or free. If they can get a doctor to sign off on ANYTHING about their disability, or the reason why they need the scooter, then thats enough for me, go for it, ask your doc, and get it done. But I refuse to believe that a doctor won't write a note saying that if you had any type of legitimate pain or disability.

Here's the thing: Its only going to get worse. Restrictions need to be put in place or the people that TRULY need the wheelchairs are going to be the ones harmed by it.

My 2 cents: DH is a disabled war veteran (Gulf War). He blew out is back so bad that on his final 6 month cruise, he had to be on pain medication and off his feet because the hospital on board was not equipped to operate on the injury he had and they were in the middle of the ocean (he was in the Navy) and could not fly him home. Once he got home, he had major surgery and 10 years later he is still no better. In fact, he is worse. On top of one disk gone and 2 blown, he now has stenosis in both his upper and lower back. He has pain blocks every year or so...series of 3 at a time because doctors say he is too young for another surgery and "has to wait". The medications that they have/had him on caused serious weight gain which is next to impossible for him to lose. He was discharged as a 60% disabled vet for life and said he'd do it again if he could....serve in the military, that is. He has a blue parking pass which he rarely uses. When we go to WDW he tries really, really hard to go without the scooter. Sometimes there are days when the pain is so bad that I beg him to get one because I can see how bad he is suffering, but most of the time he will hobble along because he doesn't want people to think that he's a "fat guy trying to be lazy." He is very careful to not run into anyone. He doesn't use the horn....he will wait until the path is clear. There are times when he can get out of the scooter and wait in a line .... but within 15-20 minutes, he's in a heap of pain again. It annoys me when people jump to conclusions about people using scooters.

Hmm, maybe he should wear a sign on his back....disabled war veteran...wanna see my scar???

Again, he has the disability, and would be able to prove it. Its the people that are taking advantage that DON'T have a disability that you need to blame.

If Disney had a policy where a medical excuse was required, don't you think that would look much better for your husband? No one would think that he was 'a fat guy trying to be lazy' because he would have had to prove to Disney that he was disabled. Know what I'm trying to say?

 

[TwoTigersMom]

Its completely for them to decide? Come on, do you know what world we live in? Everyone wants something easy or free.

Here's the thing: Its only going to get worse. Restrictions need to be put in place or the people that TRULY need the wheelchairs are going to be the ones harmed by it.

I see your point with this aspect of the argument. Somone who fell last night and sprained their ankle, who obviously can't walk today, doesn't necissarily require a Dr. visit, couldn't supply written proof. So there is really no way of policing it. Disney nor anyone else can say "Sorry you sprained your ankle and can't walk, but since you don't have written proof you don't get a chair." without very bad PR at least. So, then it goes back to being responsible for your own actions. If you need a wheelchair get it. If you get a wheel chair just for kicks and giggles, it's you that has to deal with your Jiminy Cricket. If you see someone in a wheel chair, it's not for you to judge whether that person has a legitimate reason or not.

Hmm, maybe he should wear a sign on his back....disabled war veteran...wanna see my scar???

I saw someone on another message board mention a Tee shirt that said "Some medical issues are not as obvious as others......but you can never hide rudeness!!" :lol:

 

[AnimalMagnetism]

I don't think the solution is hard at all. Go about YOUR day enjoying YOURSELF. If everyone in this world would realize they are responsible for their own actions the world could be a better place. Instead, so many people are to busy policing other people to ensure their own happiness in life.

Oh, believe me, I do enjoy myself! This is just a minor irritant on otherwise almost completely magical days. It's just that it's a growing problem which may become more than a minor irritant unless a solution can be found, which is why I think it touches a nerve. Your suggestion that people are responsible for their own actions is, I think, exactly the point I was trying to make. If you want to ride around in a scooter all day because you have, by your own actions, become so chronically obese that you can't walk long distances then try to take account of those of us who have taken better care of ourselves. Just like smokers now have to, by having the designated areas. If you have to ride around in a scooter all day through no fault of your own, then you deserve any and every courtesy than can possibly be extended to you by your fellow guests and by Disney, and like virtually everyone, I'm happy to extend that courtesy whenever possible to anyone in a chair, motorised or not.

 

[PigletIsMyCat]

if you're not diabled in any way, take solace in the fact that a: you're not disabled; b: you're not the sort of jerk0ff who'd pretend to be disabled for kicks, shorter wait times or other perks. And unless you have a third eye that allows you to look in a person's soul & know what ails them, don't waste precious brain cells wondering what they're getting over on WDW. Life's too short, and so is vacation time.

Nice post.

 

[unkadug]

Alot of peoples disabilities are not immediately evident.

Don't judge a person until you've walked a mile in their shoes. :wave:

 

[memobrien]

yeah i would be careful of games like disabled or lazy. you never know what someone might be thinking about you. hmmm....maybe... ignorant or mentally impaired?

i'm sorry i have seen this from both sides. and seriously if you have nothing better to do at WDW but to think like this you are seriously missing what the spirit of WDW is all about.

 

[Champion]

I see your point with this aspect of the argument. Somone who fell last night and sprained their ankle, who obviously can't walk today, doesn't necissarily require a Dr. visit, couldn't supply written proof. So there is really no way of policing it. Disney nor anyone else can say "Sorry you sprained your ankle and can't walk, but since you don't have written proof you don't get a chair." without very bad PR at least. So, then it goes back to being responsible for your own actions. If you need a wheelchair get it. If you get a wheel chair just for kicks and giggles, it's you that has to deal with your Jiminy Cricket. If you see someone in a wheel chair, it's not for you to judge whether that person has a legitimate reason or not.

But thats why I said originally that you give them the wheelchair anyway, and just say 'next time please bring proof of the disability'.

I don't mind the wheelchairs at all, really. Its the scooters I have issue with. Anyone that thinks they need a wheelchair should get it. And anyone that needs a motorized wheelchair will most likely have brought their own with them. Maybe I should just advocate the complete ban of the motorized scooters and not worry about the doctor's note.

 

[TwoTigersMom]

But thats why I said originally that you give them the wheelchair anyway, and just say 'next time please bring proof of the disability'.

I don't mind the wheelchairs at all, really. Its the scooters I have issue with. Anyone that thinks they need a wheelchair should get it. Maybe I should just advocate the complete ban of the motorized scooters and not worry about the doctor's note.

Here's the problems with both of those theories. If you ask that they bring proof next time, is Disney going to keep a database? If someone was dishonest enough to lie about it the 1st time then why wouldn't they just lie the second time?

The problem with banning motorized scooters is there will be situations, like I, personally, will have in December. My husband and I are taking his parents to WDW. We have never been on a trip with them and both are in their 70's and will need a wheelchair. I also have 2 young children. I normally bring 2 strollers, but this time I'll only be bringing one. So 2 healthy capable adults and 3 chairs to push. It doesn't work. So we will rent a motorized scooter for my FIL, so that we only have 1 wheelchair and a stroller to push.

Just an FYI for everyone, we're going Dec 9th - 14th. Since apparently, we're everyone's worst nightmare, scooter driving, wheelchair riding, stroller pushing big ole meanies.

 

[Monty]

But thats why I said originally that you give them the wheelchair anyway, and just say 'next time please bring proof of the disability'.

I don't mind the wheelchairs at all, really. Its the scooters I have issue with. Anyone that thinks they need a wheelchair should get it. Maybe I should just advocate the complete ban of the motorized scooters and not worry about the doctor's note.

So, If I happen to have a problem with my foot, which can happen at any time, in your scenario Disney wouldn't let me in?

I don't have portions of both feet and both hands. I could not use crutches and it would be impossible for me to propel myself in a wheelchair. So your brilliant solution is that I shouldn't enjoy WDW?

There is no requirement to provide proof of disability because for starters it degrades the disabled person to have to and the person renting out wheelchairs or scooters is in no way qualified to accept and/or assess a physician's note. The Americans with Disabilities Act actually points out the discriminatory nature of any regulation that requires proof of disability.

And for what it's worth, you couldn't possibly walk a mile in my shoes without being in excruciating pain after a few steps. The orthotic inserts would cripple you.

Get off you arrogant high horse and recognize that you are not qualified to make any judgments of other individuals' conditions and perhaps you could do some volunteer work within the disabled community in whatever city/town you live and pray that maybe you could understand a portion of the day-to-day hell it can be dealing with ill-informed fools who think they know what it's like.

And have yourself a magical day. :wave:

 

[Champion]

Here's the problems with both of those theories. If you ask that they bring proof next time, is Disney going to keep a database? If someone was dishonest enough to lie about it the 1st time then why wouldn't they just lie the second time?

No, but you'd be surprised how much Disney actually runs on the honor system. Just the thought that the system is in place will deter some people, which is all that you want. You don't want ANYONE who needs the wheelchair to not be able to have it.

The problem with banning motorized scooters is there will be situations, like I, personally, will have in December. My husband and I are taking his parents to WDW. We have never been on a trip with them and both are in their 70's and will need a wheelchair. I also have 2 young children. I normally bring 2 strollers, but this time I'll only be bringing one. So 2 healthy capable adults and 3 chairs to push. It doesn't work. So we will rent a motorized scooter for my FIL, so that we only have 1 wheelchair and a stroller to push.

The only thing I can say about that is that people got along just fine before the scooters were so prevalent. I realize the population is getting older. And thats fine. Seniors should be able to go and enjoy the parks as well. They should be able to have a wheelchair or a scooter to do so. But those aren't the people that ANYONE has issues with. Just add a 'over 60 can also have a wheelchair/scooter' in addition to the doctor's note.

So, If I happen to have a problem with my foot, which can happen at any time, in your scenario Disney wouldn't let me in?

I don't have portions of both feet and both hands. I could not use crutches and it would be impossible for me to propel myself in a wheelchair. So your brilliant solution is that I shouldn't enjoy WDW?

There is no requirement to provide proof of disability because for starters it degrades the disabled person to have to and the person renting out wheelchairs or scooters is in no way qualified to accept and/or assess a physician's note. The Americans with Disabilities Act actually points out the discriminatory nature of any regulation that requires proof of disability.

And for what it's worth, you couldn't possibly walk a mile in my shoes without being in excruciating pain after a few steps. The orthotic inserts would cripple you.

Get off you arrogant high horse and recognize that you are not qualified to make any judgments of other individuals' conditions and perhaps you could do some volunteer work within the disabled community in whatever city/town you live and pray that maybe you could understand a portion of the day-to-day hell it can be dealing with ill-informed fools who think they know what it's like.

And have yourself a magical day.

And again, someone that has a legitimate use for the scooter or wheelchair gets offended. Why would you go to bat for the people that are making you have to defend yourself? Its isn't the disabled that anyone has an issue with. Its the MORONS who get the scooters that don't need them. And don't tell me those people don't exist, you know that they do, and in large and growing numbers. If those people were not trying to take advantage of the system, then this thread wouldn't exist, and it wouldn't be an issue. This wasn't an issue 10 years ago, even 5 years ago it wasn't bad. But it just gets to be more and more of an issue every year. Are there really that many more people that need wheelchairs and scooters?

Do you have a suggestion for limiting the use of wheelchairs and scooters to those who need them? I'd love to hear from your perspective, since it is obviously so different from mine. You're completely right that I can't speak for you, so I would like to see what you thought would be the best course. You can't deny that there are a lot of people who don't need them who use them, and the amount of them are detrimental to crowd flow, among other things. It can't continue to go like this, something will have to change.

There was a time when guests at WDW would make sure to get out of the way of wheelchairs and make sure those occupants got appropriate treatment. But now, that doesn't happen unless the disability is outwardly obvious, because people just can't tell who is faking and who isn't. Just look at rushes after parades or fireworks or at closing. People will cut in front of the wheelchairs and scooters without a second thought. Would this have happened 10 years ago? Not that often.

 

[slappy magoo]

Sounds to me like Champion wants a modern-day equivalent of the Salem witch trials. He gets to throw you out of your scooter and wheelchair and walk away with it. If you get up to try to chase him, well then OBVIOUSLY you don't need it.

And if, in the process fo knocking you over, he injures you even more, cripples you even worse, well, then, isn't that a small price to pay for having your good name cleared?

Seriously, this is ridiculous. People can fudge doctors' notes if they wanted a wheelchair or scooter bad enough. If you actually see someone genuinely taking advantage of a wheelchair or scooter (and I mean, see them do wind sprints before and after getting back in the chair and getting on a line) by all means, let a CM know, if that puts a crease in your jeans. Even if you see some 500-pound man or woman in a scooter knocking people over, failing to yield to oncoming traffic, s__________g the magic out of the moment for you...dude, it's a 500 pound man or woman. Just be happy you have your shinola physically and/or emotionally more together than that. You apparently don't have an issue with schadenfreude normally, so let it go.

 

[Badger Brent]

Thanks DisneyChik17!! My daughter was an avid softball and volleyball player. The only physical part of school activities she can do now is cheer leading. She doesn't do much but stands for catching girls on letdowns. She's accepted it and enjoys as much of the participation as she can. She should be a weather person, she can tell when rain is coming into our area when her knee aches...lol:animwink:

 

[eeyoremum]

My girlfriend and I play a fun game while at WDW and I would recommend trying this when you go...

It is called "Lazy or Disabled" We also have noticed the growing problem (pun intended) with ECV's. So whenever we come across someone scooting around the world we look at each other and give our opinion. The icing on the cake was one evening we were enjoying wishes when we watched a 55 year old woman climb on top of her ECV and stand-up to get a better view of the fireworks. We were absolutely rolling on the ground laughing. Needless to say “LAZY”!!!!

Nice "game" so according to you my husband would be lazy because he is young and in a ECV? How about maybe here is a man that wants his children to enjoy their childhood and have fun. If this is the only way
it will happen then so be it. Do you think anybody really wants to ride an ECV? Live my life for just one day then judge me and my family.

The only thing I can say about that is that people got along just fine before the scooters were so prevalent.

Well I don't want to push my husband around for an entire week. It is my vacation too after all. Having an ECV has allowed many people who may not have had the opportunity in the past to enjoy places. If you notice in general we tend to see more disabled people enjoying life. I see this as an advantage. We no longer "lock them away" where they are not seen. I am only in my 30s but I don't recall seeing many people with disabilities out and about enjoying life. If ECV have helped then I am all for them.

 

[TwoTigersMom]

No, but you'd be surprised how much Disney actually runs on the honor system. Just the thought that the system is in place will deter some people, which is all that you want. You don't want ANYONE who needs the wheelchair to not be able to have it.

The "thought" will not deter someone who got a scooter or wheel chair for the fun of it. If they were low life enough to do it the 1st time they will do it again. However this is not the point I began arguing. My point is that it is not anyones place to judge whether another has a legitimate need for a wheel chair or scooter.

The only thing I can say about that is that people got along just fine before the scooters were so prevalent. I realize the population is getting older. And thats fine. Seniors should be able to go and enjoy the parks as well. They should be able to have a wheelchair or a scooter to do so. But those aren't the people that ANYONE has issues with. Just add a 'over 60 can also have a wheelchair/scooter' in addition to the doctor's note.

There are more people visiting WDW now because it is more accessable. People who never would have been able to before. This whole subject truely has nothing to do with scooters, wheelchairs or people driving them. It has to do with people in general. I am sure there are people who are not very curteous, who need asstive devices to get through the parks, just as there are people who are healthy and capable, who are not very curteous. It's people's mindset in general that causes the problems. One more time, YOU (a generalized term I'm using for all WDW guests) are responsible for making yourself happy. You are not responsible for determining if another guess has a valid excuse for any assistive devices they are using. If watching folks in wheel chairs and scooters for signs of deceit is what makes you happy, then I feel sorry for you, because then you are truely missing out on a lot in this world.

And again, someone that has a legitimate use for the scooter or wheelchair gets offended. Why would you go to bat for the people that are making you have to defend yourself? Its isn't the disabled that anyone has an issue with. Its the MORONS who get the scooters that don't need them. And don't tell me those people don't exist, you know that they do, and in large and growing numbers. If those people were not trying to take advantage of the system, then this thread wouldn't exist, and it wouldn't be an issue. This wasn't an issue 10 years ago, even 5 years ago it wasn't bad. But it just gets to be more and more of an issue every year. Are there really that many more people that need wheelchairs and scooters?

Because he is the perfect example of someone who might get those dirty looks and snide remarks. I have had the pleasure of meeting Monty and had I not known about his circumstances prior to meeting him, I probably would not have even noticed any handcap what so ever. He has a very normal gait. He does not "appear" to be handicapped at all. However, he does have limitations and he knows when he has hit those limits. If he chose to utilize a scooter all the ignorant folks would be looking at him and making snide remarks about him not needing one. Heck he's under 60, doesn't appear to be in need, oh well, sorry Monty no scooter for you. Rediculous huh?

There was a time when guests at WDW would make sure to get out of the way of wheelchairs and make sure those occupants got appropriate treatment. But now, that doesn't happen unless the disability is outwardly obvious, because people just can't tell who is faking and who isn't. Just look at rushes after parades or fireworks or at closing. People will cut in front of the wheelchairs and scooters without a second thought. Would this have happened 10 years ago? Not that often.

There was also a time when people had personal accountability, manners and better common sense. Obviously that time is long gone for a lot of folks. Why worry about if someone is faking or not? Just assume, that they do not chose to be stuck in a chair or on a scooter. Assume that they would much rather be walking and enjoying WDW from an adults eye view (instead of having to look at everyones rears). Again, I don't see how it is happening more often or becoming more prevelent. I have never had an incident with a malicious wheel chair or scooter driver.

 

[DisneyChik17]

Thanks DisneyChik17!! My daughter was an avid softball and volleyball player. The only physical part of school activities she can do now is cheer leading. She doesn't do much but stands for catching girls on letdowns. She's accepted it and enjoys as much of the participation as she can. She should be a weather person, she can tell when rain is coming into our area when her knee aches...lol:animwink:

Haha! I think that the weather thing may be the only cool aspect of it. LOL! But it is so good that she has found something that she can participate in. I just have to bust my butt at the gym. Best of luck to her in her cheering!