Guardians Tower announcement Saturday in SD ...

Filby61

Well-Known Member
But it also shows the lower view of themed entertainment. These same people get excited for the next Disney owned film but only want the theme parks to replay what they already know and can access any time.

Exactly. And today's Disney has no greater vision than to pander to them.

The nation's amusement park operators told Walt he would go broke if he didn't give Disneyland's customers the rides and entertainment forms that they already knew -- the stuff that was proven to make money. Instead, Walt envisioned something that audiences didn't know they wanted, but that his guts told him they would love. And in so doing he created a new and exciting brand.

Today, the creatively gutless Disney Parks & Resorts division does just the opposite. They won't spend a dime unless it's on an already-proven-moneymaker brand.

The irony is that these executives are riding the coattails of the creativity and innovation that once was synonymous with the name "Disney," while being utterly out of touch with it: Media marketers and purveyors of sequels who are locked in an ecosystem of endless imitation with millions of branded-lifestyle consumers, who know little of how low Disney's vision has fallen and who demand even less.
 
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Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
Ever seen people at Islands of Adventure looking for Rickshaw falls?

rickshaw_zpsbzw1hgi3.jpg
Lol, I've never heard of that one before, but it makes sense given people's stupidity. Off the top of my head, the worst I think I've heard of is people calling Spaceship Earth Space Mountain.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Lol, I've never heard of that one before, but it makes sense given people's stupidity. Off the top of my head, the worst I think I've heard of is people calling Spaceship Earth Space Mountain.
Eh, it's all relative. Outside of our fan communities, it is more often considered a sign of stupidity to do know every name of every cartoon ride in every theme park. ;)
 
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Ismael Flores

Well-Known Member
It is difficult to add stuff to Disneyland. TP2000's statement :


is entirely incorrect, as space that was used as valuable back of the house and about 1/3 of an existing attraction cannot be considered - under any definition of the word - "unused." Of course, Star Wars space is in fact replacing something old - as it is replacing parts of Rivers of America - for something new.

But back to the current point. Disneyland can logistically only grow west, into land that is currently asphalt parking lots. Again, if they were hell-bent on glomming Star Wars land to Disneyland (Mistake #1), this parking lot was their smartest choice. That way, if future generations wanted to expand another land into Disneyland, they could ring entrances to each land around the Rivers of America (kind of like how Hong Kong Disneyland designed multiple lands around their big river).

Instead, TDA/Burbank/Idiot Planner decided to cut off all expansion by having Star Wars land and their show buildings take up the entire distance between Critter Country and Big Thunder Ranch, thereby cutting off the ability for any future lands to be accessed off a central route (Mistake #2). They then announced the west lot would be taken up by a gargantuan hotel, thus taking the land that could have been Disneyland's (Mistake #3). And then they announced the building of an undersized parking structure on the Sybron/Pumbaa lot, instead of considering turning car access for the entire resort around and having all day parking concentrated in Sybron/Pumbaa. Since that plot abuts the 5 Freeway, all cars could then come directly on and off the freeway without having to navigate side streets like they currently do (Mistake #4). In addition, having that lot maximally built out now will save money in the future, because it will be ready-made for when they open a 3rd gate (Pumbaa is the only lot that has easy access to the Strawberry Field site) and clears the way for a Mickey and Friends demolition, which would have given Disneyland further expansion room if they had gone with a "Lands' Branched Around Rivers Of America" site plan.

But no: in a single, ill-conceived stroke, Iger managed to take out a pretty historical part of the current Disneyland and simultaneously block any ability for his successors to add on without exorbitant cost (essentially, leveling Star Wars land sometime in the future), despite the fact that a good masterplan could have avoided both. He's not a very bright one, that guy.
Just curious, if they wanted to expand west what would you do with Disneyland Drive? They need that road for car flow and access for the hotels on the west side. I think it would be a huge hurdle to try and convince the city to give up right to the road in exchange for theme park use. Not that they can't but your idea sounded interesting except for several hurdles that they would have to go thru and convince the city to be involved.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see how they end up calling the new land if it does get a change name. Due to contracts of the 1990's the word Marvel can be not used in any advertisement for attractions. Also Universal has rights on most of the Marvel characters for theme park use within 300 miles of their Orlando resort and because of that Dianey can not use characters names or reference in any kind of publication for advertising purpose within those 300 miles. So when they do add these future attractions in Anaheim they will not able able to advertise on national television. They most likely have to do it on local stations and publications so that non of it reaches within 300 miles of USO.
The one area that the contract doesn't specify is online media and things like Facebook or Twitter.

I was surprised to learn this in the last few days after reading an article.

Looks like for this announcement Joe Rodhe was very careful not to use the word Marvel and instead called it a whole new Universe.
I've read multiple times that national advertising for DCA's Marvel stuff that's also shown in that 300 mile radius wouldn't be a problem as long as it's made clear that the attractions only exist west of the Mississippi and that "Marvel" isn't used.

The confusion comes from if they can advertise GotG in WDW to that 300 mile radius.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
I belive we are seeing a trend emerge with all the super hero / toonification of the parks. Fans enable it by excusing it with their desire for anything new....until it affects an attraction or area of the park that they personaly care about, then they decide its gone too far. All the while, the pigeon holing chugs along.

The current leadership continues to dismantle a fluid world of magic in favor of brand recognition and flashy lights. We will continue to hear common phrases such as "lets wait and see", and when they finally unveil each new refurb, rebuilt or reskinned attraction, we will see a half decent product, but most likely nothing timeless or on the scale of creativity that the company produced when it was being ran by people who knew how to operate a theme park.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I've sorta said all I feel is needed on this topic and I am on holiday and really this is no longer news as I told y'all it was coming quite a while ago (just ask the good folks who monitor me for TWDC), but a couple of things really bother me.

This idea that the relative merits of WDW's ToT somehow in any way, shape or form make this OK in Anaheim. They do not. Again, Disney has spent $2 billion on revamping DCA since 2008 to make it more cohesive and quality and one area where it was just fine thematically was having that attraction in that corner.

If you think that what happens at one resort is OK, because there are multiples and you are lucky enough to be able to go to them, then -- as I've said repeatedly for months -- it's time to rip out the MK's lousy version of Pirates because there are four better versions around the globe and you could do so much in that building with that ride system.

Really look forward to the excuses and explanations for the GotG attraction coming to The Corpse of EPCOT. How many pages of mostly drivel did the excusing of Frozenstrom bring here? This will easily be double or triple ...fanbois are more into talking raccoons with guns than singing snowmen and an ice princess who might or might not be a lesbian, but why do we care anyway?

There seems to be this disconnect with fans of today, mostly either Millennials or people who only started visiting WDW post 2000, that just tossing random IPs/franchises anywhere is fine because Bob Iger and Chappie say so. That again is not the case. What you are really saying is you don't care about what Disney parks were all about, you care about today's hot IP and when in FL you'd really like it if every park was the MK etc.

Indeed, people in the fan community tend to view me as crazy when I state that DAK is by far my favourite park at WDW today because it is the ONLY one that has remained true to its mission statement and even adding Pandora doesn't really harm or change that because of the messages in Avatar.

If you don't get why the Star Wars Experience doesn't belong taking up a huge piece of DL real estate or why adding a Guardians overlay to the ToT just are not right, then you don't get the basics of setting a time and place and truly transporting you. This is the same crap as liking Princess rooms at Dixie Landings or Pirate (and the removed Nemo) rooms at CBR or having carpeting (again, thankfully removed) at the Beach Club with Ariel's friends all over it.

Disney used to be about visiting different idealised times and places, some that existed, some of fantasy. It wasn't about stepping into a BRAND. And, fundamentally, you either get that point or you do not.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I've read multiple times that national advertising for DCA's Marvel stuff that's also shown in that 300 mile radius wouldn't be a problem as long as it's made clear that the attractions only exist west of the Mississippi and that "Marvel" isn't used.

The confusion comes from if they can advertise GotG in WDW to that 300 mile radius.
There is no confusion. Disney would be prohibited from advertising a Gurdians of the Galaxy attraction at Walt Disney World within 300 miles of Orlando.

"IV. B. 1. a. 1. iv. (b) If the particular character is not used by MCA, such character will not be advertised or promoted by means of (x) spot television buys, billboards, personal appearances, or print advertisements which are (y) viewed, located or primarily directed to persons within 300 miles of Orlando. In other words, regional (i.e. covering a multi-state geographic region) or national television or print media buys, or brochures would not be prohibited within such 300 mile radius."
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
There is no confusion. Disney would be prohibited from advertising a Gurdians of the Galaxy attraction at Walt Disney World within 300 miles of Orlando.

"IV. B. 1. a. 1. iv. (b) If the particular character is not used by MCA, such character will not be advertised or promoted by means of (x) spot television buys, billboards, personal appearances, or print advertisements which are (y) viewed, located or primarily directed to persons within 300 miles of Orlando. In other words, regional (i.e. covering a multi-state geographic region) or national television or print media buys, or brochures would not be prohibited within such 300 mile radius."
So all those billboards on the way from the airport-nope
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
A point I neglected to mention was the crazy idea that the Twilight Zone IP had become too old, too obscure. That it needed to be updated for today's Jobian society.

BS!

First, if that were the case, then Disney would have swapped Splash Mountain (oh, let's also not point out again that Dumbo and Peter Pan are as racist as Song of the South!) in three parks and Mr. Toad in one park (or two if we include DLP's fast food locale) and the Swiss Family Robinson at two etc etc.

Quality attractions succeed or fail based upon the experience, not the source material. Sure, quality and well-known material can only help, but Disney could open an amazing attraction based on Atlantis or Treasure Planet and ... fans would flock to them.

Also, there seems to be some idea that CBS holding the rights was an issue. Totally incorrect. CBS will still hold the rights for attractions in O-Town and Paris. And Disney is not going to be saving much, if anything, by removing the IP from DCA based on what I know about these type of contracts.

Finally, I know some people are surprised the attraction will remain open until after the Christmas holidays. What you may not know is that outside work on the building will begin long before the attraction shuts down.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
There seems to be this disconnect with fans of today, mostly either Millennials or people who only started visiting WDW post 2000
These are the same type of customers (not guests, IMO, just customers) whose appreciation and/or loyalty is centered around their own personal satisfaction and desires. They will jump ship the moment they feel the grass is greener somewhere else. Yet Disney caters to them endlessly.

My wife works for Chanel. She was telling me how the Nieman Marcus in Atlanta started focussing on the younger crowds that were coming in droves to buy high end items.. but only one or two things at a time such as Prada sneakers or Gucci polo shirts. NM felt it was wise to cater to them and offer promotions on the items they were buying (sneakers, hats, shirts) and now they have a store flooded with wannabe rappers, millenials who have saved up for two months to buy a pair of high end shoes (on sale) and people who are mostly just hanging out to be seen in Nieman Marcus. The Atlanta and Buckhead socialites who once frequented the store and would drop $5-10K in one visit no longer care to shop in such an atmosphere. These were the clients that made NM what it is and they were taken for granted and now they have taken their business elsewhere. While my wife doesnt work for NM, she handles clients accounts who once shopped there and has heard their stories first hand. I could only think of TWDC as she told me all of this.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I only track WDW rumors on my site and surprisingly WDW1974 hasn't broken any attraction news there in the last few years. However, he's contributed plenty of information to existing rumors and broke the entire Shanghai opening day lineup well before anyone else had it. Anyone that thinks he doesn't have good info is delusional.

I thought he broke the news about the Royal Sommerhus?
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
A point I neglected to mention was the crazy idea that the Twilight Zone IP had become too old, too obscure. That it needed to be updated for today's Jobian society.

BS!

First, if that were the case, then Disney would have swapped Splash Mountain (oh, let's also not point out again that Dumbo and Peter Pan are as racist as Song of the South!) in three parks and Mr. Toad in one park (or two if we include DLP's fast food locale) and the Swiss Family Robinson at two etc etc.

Quality attractions succeed or fail based upon the experience, not the source material. Sure, quality and well-known material can only help, but Disney could open an amazing attraction based on Atlantis or Treasure Planet and ... fans would flock to them.

Also, there seems to be some idea that CBS holding the rights was an issue. Totally incorrect. CBS will still hold the rights for attractions in O-Town and Paris. And Disney is not going to be saving much, if anything, by removing the IP from DCA based on what I know about these type of contracts.

Finally, I know some people are surprised the attraction will remain open until after the Christmas holidays. What you may not know is that outside work on the building will begin long before the attraction shuts down.
One thought's been bugging me: if it is true what we say and IP doesn't matter, then why does it matter what IP ToT has?

'Quality attractions succeed or fail based upon the experience, not the source material'. So if a quality attraction such as ToT succeeds based regardless of source material, then it will still succeed despite GotG.
 

seabreezept813

Well-Known Member
100% agree. This is unprecedented and all the comments that this is ok because it's the inferior version is ridiculous. Like any of us here in So Cal care about that. I guess I can feel better about it because a better version exists in Florida that I may ride 1-2 times in my life.

I agree that this is a terrible defense. I haven't been to California so the Orlando pirates or dinosaur rides are classic to me even if there are better versions of the ride or ride system in California. Even if California's version is cut back, I would guess that average parkgoers don't know what they're missing as compared to Orlando. The mentality of well just go see it in Orlando is silly. A trip to California would cost my family a lot more for fewer days than a trip to Disney World. And I imagine that California i much more feasible for you. It's just sad that Disney seems to be losing it's spark and originality.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
A point I neglected to mention was the crazy idea that the Twilight Zone IP had become too old, too obscure. That it needed to be updated for today's Jobian society.

BS!

First, if that were the case, then Disney would have swapped Splash Mountain (oh, let's also not point out again that Dumbo and Peter Pan are as racist as Song of the South!) in three parks and Mr. Toad in one park (or two if we include DLP's fast food locale) and the Swiss Family Robinson at two etc etc.

Quality attractions succeed or fail based upon the experience, not the source material. Sure, quality and well-known material can only help, but Disney could open an amazing attraction based on Atlantis or Treasure Planet and ... fans would flock to them.

Also, there seems to be some idea that CBS holding the rights was an issue. Totally incorrect. CBS will still hold the rights for attractions in O-Town and Paris. And Disney is not going to be saving much, if anything, by removing the IP from DCA based on what I know about these type of contracts.

Finally, I know some people are surprised the attraction will remain open until after the Christmas holidays. What you may not know is that outside work on the building will begin long before the attraction shuts down.
Who remembers this?
image-jpeg.137576


Some people in the fan community...

@Kate F posted that screen grab originally.
 

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