News Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
I'm kind of with @EricsBiscuit. A good superhero movie, or any fantasy story, gives you a set of new rules for its fictional reality and the fun is exploring and imagining how they work and what that does. The Antman movies are especially bad about giving a fictional set of rules for its world and characters and then breaking or ignoring those rules whenever it feels like it.
Sometimes when tiny Ant-Man falls to the bathroom floor, he breaks a tile when he hits it. Then, when he falls onto a wooden surface, nothing happens. The writing and worldbuilding isn't diligent enough to be engaging.

If the movie never took time to explain what the rules are supposed to be, or didn't have stretches where the dramatic tension is based around the viewer anticipating what would happen, it wouldn't be such a big deal. The Dr. Strange movie, for instance, knows better than to actually pin down how the magic actually works.
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The rules are that whatever is the funniest or most entertaining result at a given moment is valid.

If you need more than that, just chalk it up to the unpredictable nature of Pym Particles. Or perhaps the super scientist can alter density as well as size.

You can find faults like this in any fantasy. In IW, Thanos is strong enough to pummel the Hulk but Captain America, who is slightly stronger then a human in peak physical condition, is able to hold back Thanos’s arm when the villain is straining to move it.
 
Bairstow

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
The rules are that whatever is the funniest or most entertaining result at a given moment is valid.

If you need more than that, just chalk it up to the unpredictable nature of Pym Particles. Or perhaps the super scientist can alter density as well as size.

You can find faults like this in any fantasy. In IW, Thanos is strong enough to pummel the Hulk but Captain America, who is slightly stronger then a human in peak physical condition, is able to hold back Thanos’s arm when the villain is straining to move it.
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Of course, but the Antman movies are significantly worse at this than the others.

As for Captain America, the full nature of his strength and whether it may be much greater than we understand is something that has been hinted at and teased throughout the series.


 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Bairstow said:
Of course, but the Antman movies are significantly worse at this than the others.

As for Captain America, the full nature of his strength and whether it may be much greater than we understand is something that has been hinted at and teased throughout the series.


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That scene isn’t hinting at his strength, it’s illustrating his virtue. Strength has nothing to do with lifting the hammer - you have to be worthy.

I disagree that Ant Man is worse than most. Characters’ relative strength and durability, for instance, varies wildly throughout the MCU films as plots require. What must remain consistent - what makes the MCU work - are the characters’ personalities and relationships. That’s always been the key to Marvel’s success. The intricacies of powers and so on requires the willing suspension of disbelief.
 
Johnny Three-hats

Johnny Three-hats

Active Member
Casper Gutman said:
That scene isn’t hinting at his strength, it’s illustrating his virtue. Strength has nothing to do with lifting the hammer - you have to be worthy.

I disagree that Ant Man is worse than most. Characters’ relative strength and durability, for instance, varies wildly throughout the MCU films as plots require. What must remain consistent - what makes the MCU work - are the characters’ personalities and relationships. That’s always been the key to Marvel’s success. The intricacies of powers and so on requires the willing suspension of disbelief.
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Yes, yes, yes! Exactly what I wanted to add to this conversation. Steve nearly lifting Mjolnir, Steve holding back Thanos, I don't think either has anything to do with physical strength. I always saw it as a testament to his strength of character, conviction, and a good heart.

It's interesting to me that different things that can take people out of these movies. I would never have questioned the physics of Antman & Wasp. I was enjoying the sweet and fun character moments too much to even think about that. Whereas, I was completely taken out of Thor: Ragnarok largely because of how utterly wrong Thor's characterization was and the way he was treating his supposed friends. I suppose I understand how breaking physical rules like that could be jarring, but, personally, that's not what I go to a Marvel film for.
 
larryz

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
MisterPenguin said:
Regarding Ant-Man physics: Yeah, Marvel hasn't given us a detailed explanation. And the part-explanation doesn't explain everything we see.

DC's "The Atom" did it better by saying he can control size *and* density.

Just pretend Ant-Man can do the same.
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We don't have to pretend. That's how Pym gets his tank keychain into his pocket and rolls his lab building around like an airline roll-aboard.
 
Pi on my Cake

Pi on my Cake

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
What bothers me more than anything is shrinking between the molecules to go through titanium, but still being big enough to cut copper wires. That's idiotic unless I'm missing something. And it's a plot point more than once in the first movie!

The Ant-Man movies talk more about science than any other yet their science makes the least sense and is the least consistent.

I still love them for the characters, action, story, and comedy. But they lean so much into science without any consistency or logic to back it up. Just say "it works and is weird because pym particles" and audiences will go with it. Stop trying to make it seem real.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Pionmycake said:
What bothers me more than anything is shrinking between the molecules to go through titanium, but still being big enough to cut copper wires. That's idiotic unless I'm missing something. And it's a plot point more than once in the first movie!

The Ant-Man movies talk more about science than any other yet their science makes the least sense and is the least consistent.

I still love them for the characters, action, story, and comedy. But they lean so much into science without any consistency or logic to back it up. Just say "it works and is weird because pym particles" and audiences will go with it. Stop trying to make it seem real.
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Stop trying to make sense of a fictional superhero. By its very definition a “superhero” isn’t grounded in reality.
 
Lunair

Lunair

Active Member
Mike S said:
Stop trying to make sense of a fictional superhero. By its very definition a “superhero” isn’t grounded in reality.
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It's true that no superhero movie will ever be fully grounded in scientific reality, but in my opinion that's not the problem here. The problem is that the movie contradicts Ant-Man's powers in the most important plot points.

Its shown that when you go "sub-molecular" to "slip through the molecules", you continue shrinking into nothingness. However, Ant-Man goes sub-molecular to slip through the molecules, then suddenly grows much MUCH larger to be able to break electronic components, and then starts shrinking again. That completely contradicts his powers.

Superhero movies are fun because they have very specific powers and they have to work around the weaknesses of those powers to win. If you contradict your power's weakness in the most important plot point, it falls flat and becomes an unsatisfying victory.

Or maybe that's just me.
 
The_Jobu

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
Regarding Ant-Man physics: Yeah, Marvel hasn't given us a detailed explanation. And the part-explanation doesn't explain everything we see.

DC's "The Atom" did it better by saying he can control size *and* density.

Just pretend Ant-Man can do the same.
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Atom is such a unique and fun character to use in Injustice 2. I love watching talented people play as him. Just thought I'd share that.

Back to the thread.
 
Pi on my Cake

Pi on my Cake

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Mike S said:
Stop trying to make sense of a fictional superhero. By its very definition a “superhero” isn’t grounded in reality.
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I agree. Except that the movie tries to make sense of it. I don't have a problem with bleeding edge armor not making sense because all they do is say "it's nanobots whatever shut up its cool"

Ant-Man tries to explain it and talk about things in a scientific logical way trying to explain densities and how that relates to size change and quantum entanglement and none of their explanations are consistent or make sense.

Either explain it in a logical, consistent way or don't explain it at all. This middle ground is bad writing.
 
trainplane3

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
danlb_2000 said:
A permit was filed for this project today with the description "Installation" from Adena Corporation. They recently installed both rides in Toy Story Land so I assume they will be installing the ride system for this one.

1350 Avenue of the Stars (Guardians of the Galaxy) - Installation
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Good to know that we can start looking for track being put up.

I forget, do we have pretty accurate gravity building specs? I could make a skeleton out of supports in NoLimits and start putting together a rough layout from pictures we see over the next couple months. Could be a fun little project thing.

Edit:
rough scale.jpg

That piece of track is 100ft. I based the scale off of measuring that location in Google Earth. Not 100%, but probably 99% so good enough for a rough draft.
 
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