News Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

[Lensman]

That's easy to do. Mt Fuji. Fitting thrill in without breaking Epcot is not that hard to do, to be honest.

Sad to say, I think they've already decided to change/break Epcot Future World, we just don't know what they are doing. For that matter, they may not know what they're doing, other than having decided to change/break Future World.

I have reconciled myself to this sad conclusion after someone in another thread mentioned that edutainment was dead.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

New Bioreconstruct image

 

[BrianLo]

All I could think of was that with the lights on, it's just a standard launch coaster... that probably could've taken the GotG overlay. :/

I think it’s reasonable to assume that this project started its blue sky lifecycle as a RnRc overlay. Shortly after the ‘there is nothing wrong with the DHS tower of terror, what else can we overlay’ conversation.

 

[shortstop]

I think it’s reasonable to assume that this project started its blue sky lifecycle as a RnRc overlay. Shortly after the ‘there is nothing wrong with the DHS tower of terror, what else can we overlay’ conversation.

With all of the overlays they are doing, it’s so frustrating that this is the one time they decided for a new build when hardcore fans would’ve preferred an overlay. It’s like they’re toying with us.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

With all of the overlays they are doing, it’s so frustrating that this is the one time they decided for a new build when hardcore fans would’ve preferred an overlay. It’s like they’re toying with us.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

 

[LittleBuford]

Sad to say, I think they've already decided to change/break Epcot Future World, we just don't know what they are doing. For that matter, they may not know what they're doing, other than having decided to change/break Future World.

I have reconciled myself to this sad conclusion after someone in another thread mentioned that edutainment was dead.

Did Disney decide that edutainment was dead, or did park-goers vote with their feet? I rode Ellen's Energy Adventure during spring break 2017, not long before its demise. Although it was a busy time, the theatre had only a handful of people in it, and the CM (clearly on the basis of previous guest reactions) warned us all that this was our last chance to leave if we couldn't sit through the 40-minute show.

Videos of Horizons and Body Wars also show the rides without guests in their final days.

I understand the nostalgia and share some of it, but Disney can't be blamed for responding to what their customers want (or don't).

 

[trainplane3]

Did Disney decide that edutainment was dead, or did park-goers vote with their feet? I rode Ellen's Energy Adventure during spring break 2017, not long before its demise. Although it was a busy time, the theatre had only a handful of people in it, and the CM (clearly on the basis of previous guest reactions) warned us all that this was our last chance to leave if we couldn't sit through the 40-minute show.

Videos of Horizons and Body Wars also show the rides without guests in their final days.

I understand the nostalgia and share some of it, but Disney can't be blamed for responding to what their customers want (or don't).

I rode UoE on its final weekend and it was very full but I think it had to do with the fact Disney actually announced its closure. And they've been doing the 40/45 minute warning for a long time now.

Horizons and Body Wars were just rumored to be closing soon. Body Wars went "seasonal" out of "no where" while Horizons just closed (mentioned by CMs that it was closing to receive a "refurb" when TT finally opened). I'm sure if Disney would've announced those rides were closing, they would've pulled decent-ish crowds. But since nothing was officially said, people probably assumed the rides would be there so no rush was made. I believe many expected Horizons to close and it would receive heavy refurb, not a full demo to replace it with a spin and puke.

I wouldn't say park goers got tired of edutainment, Disney just stopped trying. Okay, TT is a nice spin on edutainment.

Both of those attractions could've kept pulling in crowds nowadays if Disney would actually update them to keep them semi-relevant. Having something from 1983 untouched well into the late 90's is inexcusable (Imagination could've been a exception from this rule). Trying to pitch the 1980's idea of the future for that long was their own fault. UoE got updated in the 90s and stayed decently busy into the early 2000's. If UoE got a hefty refurb in lets say 2010, it would probably be going pretty strongly now. And now if we look at Epcot, a decent chunk of FW is either closed, (hilariously) out of date, and in need of refurb. The last real, new addition was Soarin, right?

And I say all of that as a Epcot fan.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Did Disney decide that edutainment was dead, or did park-goers vote with their feet? I rode Ellen's Energy Adventure during spring break 2017, not long before its demise. Although it was a busy time, the theatre had only a handful of people in it, and the CM (clearly on the basis of previous guest reactions) warned us all that this was our last chance to leave if we couldn't sit through the 40-minute show.

Videos of Horizons and Body Wars also show the rides without guests in their final days.

I understand the nostalgia and share some of it, but Disney can't be blamed for responding to what their customers want (or don't).

EPCOT Center was more popular than Epcot.

 

[LittleBuford]

I rode UoE on its final weekend and it was very full but I think it had to do with the fact Disney actually announced its closure. And they've been doing the 40/45 minute warning for a long time now.

Horizons and Body Wars were just rumored to be closing soon. Body Wars went "seasonal" out of "no where" while Horizons just closed (mentioned by CMs that it was closing to receive a "refurb" when TT finally opened). I'm sure if Disney would've announced those rides were closing, they would've pulled decent-ish crowds. But since nothing was officially said, people probably assumed the rides would be there so no rush was made. I believe many expected Horizons to close and it would receive heavy refurb, not a full demo to replace it with a spin and puke.

I wouldn't say park goers got tired of edutainment, Disney just stopped trying. Okay, TT is a nice spin on edutainment.

Both of those attractions could've kept pulling in crowds nowadays if Disney would actually update them to keep them semi-relevant. Having something from 1983 untouched well into the late 90's is inexcusable (Imagination could've been a exception from this rule). Trying to pitch the 1980's idea of the future for that long was their own fault. UoE got updated in the 90s and stayed decently busy into the early 2000's. If UoE got a hefty refurb in lets say 2010, it would probably be going pretty strongly now. And now if we look at Epcot, a decent chunk of FW is either closed, (hilariously) out of date, and in need of refurb. The last real, new addition was Soarin, right?

And I say all of that as a Epcot fan.

But it's not like Horizon's futuristic vision was fulfilled and therefore rendered irrelevant -- we're still a long way off from colonising space! There are plenty of rides in WDW that (even if they have been updated) still have the feel of another era and remain popular: quite apart from the obvious candidates in MK, I would say that Spaceship Earth has an inescapably old-fashioned quality that is simply the imprint of EPCOT Center, no matter how much they try to refresh the ride. I personally like this throwback quality, and it continues to draw crowds in certain contexts (Spaceship Earth being one of them), but other rides of this type (e.g., Horizons and The Great Movie Ride) didn't fare as well, and Disney responded accordingly.

Preferring the older breed of attractions is one thing, and I get it. But the idea that all of these attractions were of real didactic value is, I think, wishful thinking. Kitchen Kabaret, Journey Into Imagination, and the dinosaurs in Universe of Energy were certainly fun to experience, but they were much more about entertainment than they were about education.

To be clear, I'm not a roller-coaster fan. I personally much prefer visually rich experiences of the type that EPCOT Center had in spades. But I can't see how Disney is to blame for responding to public opinion. As I said in another thread recently, if (probably when) the Country Bears Jamboree is sacrificed, I will be devastated, but I'm not fooling myself that the attraction is the crowd-pleaser it once was, and that really isn't Disney's fault.

 

[LittleBuford]

EPCOT Center was more popular than Epcot.

This may or may not be true. The earliest individual attendance figures I could find for Epcot/EPCOT Center were for 1993, when 10 million visited the park; last year, the number was 12.2.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

But it's not like Horizon's futuristic vision was fulfilled and therefore rendered irrelevant -- we're still a long way off from colonising space! There are plenty of rides in WDW that (even if they have been updated) still have the feel of another era and remain popular: quite apart from the obvious candidates in MK, I would say that Spaceship Earth has an inescapably old-fashioned quality that is simply the imprint of EPCOT Center, no matter how much they try to refresh the ride. I personally like this throwback quality, and it continues to draw crowds in certain contexts (Spaceship Earth being one of them), but other rides of this type (e.g., Horizons and The Great Movie Ride) didn't fare as well, and Disney responded accordingly.

Preferring the older breed of attractions is one thing, and I get it. But the idea that all of these attractions were of real didactic value is, I think, wishful thinking. Kitchen Kabaret, Journey Into Imagination, and the dinosaurs in Universe of Energy were certainly fun to experience, but they were much more about entertainment than they were about education.

To be clear, I'm not a roller-coaster fan. I personally much prefer visually rich experiences of the type that EPCOT Center had in spades. But I can't see how Disney is to blame for responding to public opinion. As I said in another thread recently, if (probably when) the Country Bears Jamboree is sacrificed, I will be devastated, but I'm not fooling myself that the attraction is the crowd-pleaser it once was, and that really isn't Disney's fault.

Horizons and Great Movie Ride are interesting points of reference, because they were known for their high capacities. (Energy, too, actually.) It was difficult to keep a line at Horizons not because of a lack of popularity, but because the thing's loading efficiency kept it a premier people-eater. World of Motion fits this mold, too, and so did/does Imagination. Omnimovers don't look popular to people walking past the buildings that house them precisely because of this function.

If you've got some solid visitor survey analysis to present that says everything came down specifically as Disney responding to public opinion, that'd be wonderfully useful. As it is, not everything out there points your way. Citing yourself as an Epcot fan is not data, nor do you take the place of any data set out there.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

This may or may not be true. The earliest individual attendance figures I could find for Epcot/EPCOT Center were for 1993, when 10 million visited the park; last year, the number was 12.2.

This undermines your point considerably.

 

[LittleBuford]

Horizons and Great Movie Ride are interesting points of reference, because they were known for their high capacities. (Energy, too, actually.) It was difficult to keep a line at Horizons not because of a lack of popularity, but because the thing's loading efficiency kept it a premier people-eater. World of Motion fits this mold, too, and so did/does Imagination. Omnimovers don't look popular to people walking past the buildings that house them precisely because of this function.

If you've got some solid visitor survey analysis to present that says everything came down specifically as Disney responding to public opinion, that'd be wonderfully useful. As it is, not everything out there points your way. Citing yourself as an Epcot fan is not data, nor do you take the place of any data set out there.

Many rides that often have long lines are omnimovers (Spaceship Earth again comes to mind). Yes, such rides have high capacity, but if enough people want to ride them, they will nonetheless be busy. As you may already know, a pair of Horizons fans and their friends worked out a way of exiting their vehicles to explore and document the sets at some point in the mid-1990s, before the ride closed permanently. They would spend literally minutes unobserved, being passed by empty vehicle after empty vehicle. Could this ever happen on Spaceship Earth or the Haunted Mansion?

No, of course I don't have any analysis to present. But neither do you. And I didn't say everything pointed my way; I was simply presenting my own opinion (which is what this forum is for, I thought).

 

[LittleBuford]

This undermines your point considerably.

How does it undermine my point? I made no claims one way or the other; on the contrary, I began my response saying that lazyboy97o may or may not be correct. I can't be blamed for the fact that such figures aren't available before 1993.

 

[trainplane3]

But it's not like Horizon's futuristic vision was fulfilled and therefore rendered irrelevant -- we're still a long way off from colonising space! There are plenty of rides in WDW that (even if they have been updated) still have the feel of another era and remain popular: quite apart from the obvious candidates in MK, I would say that Spaceship Earth has an inescapably old-fashioned quality that is simply the imprint of EPCOT Center, no matter how much they try to refresh the ride. I personally like this throwback quality, and it continues to draw crowds in certain contexts (Spaceship Earth being one of them), but other rides of this type (e.g., Horizons and The Great Movie Ride) didn't fare as well, and Disney responded accordingly.

Preferring the older breed of attractions is one thing, and I get it. But the idea that all of these attractions were of real didactic value is, I think, wishful thinking. Kitchen Kabaret, Journey Into Imagination, and the dinosaurs in Universe of Energy were certainly fun to experience, but they were much more about entertainment than they were about education.

To be clear, I'm not a roller-coaster fan. I personally much prefer visually rich experiences of the type that EPCOT Center had in spades. But I can't see how Disney is to blame for responding to public opinion. As I said in another thread recently, if (probably when) the Country Bears Jamboree is sacrificed, I will be devastated, but I'm not fooling myself that the attraction is the crowd-pleaser it once was, and that really isn't Disney's fault.

True, but nothing was changed. They never updated any part of that ride. They could've refreshed the space scene by changing the style of station used, reworked the science lab on the station to have multiple "projects" happening instead of a single spinning crystal, updated the AAs, do something. SSE, while it feels old, it's still received a fair bit of love over the years for better (the computer room) or for worse (the ending/losing the space station). "Small" scene changes can bring a ride the attention it deserves. Epcot's been abused and it shows. MK gets love somewhat regularly at least.

Refreshing or slightly changing a ride can draw people back to it. If they rode a 45 minute ride once, why should they do it again if they didn't care about it the first time? But if they brought in a new script with new actors, new effects, and a modified story, they'd probably be willing to try it again.

And not everything had to be educational. Those couple you name were great examples of having fun with the subject of the pavilion they were in.

Disney is to blame because they just didn't respond to public opinion at all. The parks have been largely stagnant for the past decade (thanks MyMagic+!) and it shows. SM is in bad shape, BTM still lacks the 3rd lift effects rendering it the same to its riders, Stitch is dead space that literally lowers the parks score when it's open, Imagination hasn't been touched in 17 years and it even has some of the lowest scores on property, the Seas pavilion is still 1980's aesthetically, WoL is dead (currently), the Innoventions buildings are some giant empty building with bathrooms, and ToT hasn't had random drop profiles for a while. Okay, the Yeti also. These are just a few issues in the parks.

I used to tell people "I go every year because something new is there". A couple of friends would ask me what's changed and the past couple years I've been stuck, simply because not much has changed (well, with TSL, SWGE, Rat, and whatever else, I finally can...soon). NFL was something... and not in a good way but Avatar is truly something worth mentioning, finally!

This may or may not be true. The earliest individual attendance figures I could find for Epcot/EPCOT Center were for 1993, when 10 million visited the park; last year, the number was 12.2.

Paging @marni1971. Wasn't 1987 the peak?

 

[flynnibus]

Here today at epcot... and man this building looks huge. Stands out all over. Its going to be super high profile. Look at its size all the way from the opposite side of WS. This one cant be just painted 'go away' colors...

Thats right... taller than WoM... secon to just SSE in that view

 

[Casper Gutman]

What was important about EPCOT Center was not literal education, in the sense of standardized-test ready factoids, ie. “The capitol of France is Francyville”; it was far more about promoting a general sense of the promise and potential of human progress, united across national borders, defined by technological change, and led by American corporations. It sought to convey and celebrate a very particular, sweeping ideaological vision of the world - that was the “education” it presented.

It is entirely fair to say that that ideology is outdated or questionable, but it lay at the core of Disney’s post-war art and, particularly, of DL. That’s why the sweeping changes that began to tear EPCOT apart in the mid-90s strike a lot of Disney fans as such a betrayal. But that’s done. What matters now is that EPCOT focus on conveying SOME message.

 

[flynnibus]

Did Disney decide that edutainment was dead, or did park-goers vote with their feet? I rode Ellen's Energy Adventure during spring break 2017, not long before its demise. Although it was a busy time, the theatre had only a handful of people in it, and the CM (clearly on the basis of previous guest reactions) warned us all that this was our last chance to leave if we couldn't sit through the 40-minute show.

Videos of Horizons and Body Wars also show the rides without guests in their final days.

I understand the nostalgia and share some of it, but Disney can't be blamed for responding to what their customers want (or don't).

What you describe is what happens attractions are ran long past their need for an update.

Future world's problem has always been lack of timely refreshes to keep them relevant and not looking like dinosaurs with dated tech and content

 

[LittleBuford]

True, but nothing was changed. They never updated any part of that ride. They could've refreshed the space scene by changing the style of station used, reworked the science lab on the station to have multiple "projects" happening instead of a single spinning crystal, updated the AAs, do something. SSE, while it feels old, it's still received a fair bit of love over the years for better (the computer room) or for worse (the ending/losing the space station). "Small" scene changes can bring a ride the attention it deserves. Epcot's been abused and it shows. MK gets love somewhat regularly at least.

Refreshing or slightly changing a ride can draw people back to it. If they rode a 45 minute ride once, why should they do it again if they didn't care about it the first time? But if they brought in a new script with new actors, new effects, and a modified story, they'd probably be willing to try it again.

And not everything had to be educational. Those couple you name were great examples of having fun with the subject of the pavilion they were in.

Disney is to blame because they just didn't respond to public opinion at all. The parks have been largely stagnant for the past decade (thanks MyMagic+!) and it shows. SM is in bad shape, BTM still lacks the 3rd lift effects rendering it the same to its riders, Stitch is dead space that literally lowers the parks score when it's open, Imagination hasn't been touched in 17 years and it even has some of the lowest scores on property, the Seas pavilion is still 1980's aesthetically, WoL is dead (currently), the Innoventions buildings are some giant empty building with bathrooms, and ToT hasn't had random drop profiles for a while. Okay, the Yeti also. These are just a few issues in the parks.

I used to tell people "I go every year because something new is there". A couple of friends would ask me what's changed and the past couple years I've been stuck, simply because not much has changed (well, with TSL, SWGE, Rat, and whatever else, I finally can...soon). NFL was something... and not in a good way but Avatar is truly something worth mentioning, finally!

Paging @marni1971. Wasn't 1987 the peak?

With all the projects that are currently underway, I think the era of stagnation is over, and I'm excited to see where the parks are heading overall (even if some of the individual changes don't please or excite me).

We'll never know whether the kinds of updates you describe would have been enough to render Horizons popular again. My own feeling is that they wouldn't, but you could well be right. Still, I don't think it says much for a ride's longevity if its numbers decline so notably after ten years, even if it may be in need of refurbishment. Space Mountain continues to draw high numbers despite its current rickety state.

I agree that not everything had to be educational. I suppose what I'm getting is that, while Epcot has certainly moved away from its original profile, what's been lost has far less to do with education than I think some claim.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

Many rides that often have long lines are omnimovers (Spaceship Earth again comes to mind). Yes, such rides have high capacity, but if enough people want to ride them, they will nonetheless be busy. As you may already know, a pair of Horizons fans and their friends worked out a way of exiting their vehicles to explore and document the sets at some point in the mid-1990s, before the ride closed permanently. They would spend literally minutes unobserved, being passed by empty vehicle after empty vehicle. Could this ever happen on Spaceship Earth or the Haunted Mansion?

No, of course I don't have any analysis to present. But neither do you. And I didn't say everything pointed my way; I was simply presenting my own opinion (which is what this forum is for, I thought).

Why, thank you. I always appreciate it when people want to shore up what I already know. Makes me feel all speshul'n'stuff. I do love individualized service.

You made a claim that Disney was bowing to popular opinion. You have not backed it up. As you may already know, people on these boards do have the attendance data you seem to lack, and they can back up that EPCOT Center was more popular than Epcot. Because you made the claims regarding popularity, backing them up is in your court. Not mine.

As you may already know.