You didn't look very far then I'm afraid.
New replacing old is great. The new just has to be better than the old. Which is often not the case.
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Guardians of the Galaxy coming to Energy Pavilion at Epcot
- Thread starter davis_unoxx
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New replacing old is great. The new just has to be better than the old. Which is often not the case.
deere839
Well-Known Member
The good news is that Disney can't use any marvel stuff on Disney property page 17 of the contract says
Restrictions as to the geographic location of The Marvel Action Universe in areas where MCA has exclusive rights hereunder.
i. The Marvel Action Universe will not be within 60 miles of any Universal Theme Park with a THE MARVEL UNIVERSE
ii. Mini-theme parks, recreation centers, game centers and the like designated with the Marvel name or the name of any Marvel characters or any major entertainment component of a Marvel Action Universe such as a motion based film ride shall not be within 60 miles of any Universal Theme Park with a THE MARVEL UNIVERSE.
iii. Within the ADI market of the city containing a Universal Theme Park (even to the extent such ADI exceeds a 60 mile radius) there shall not be a Marvel themed simulator ride.
Restrictions as to the geographic location of The Marvel Action Universe in areas where MCA has exclusive rights hereunder.
i. The Marvel Action Universe will not be within 60 miles of any Universal Theme Park with a THE MARVEL UNIVERSE
ii. Mini-theme parks, recreation centers, game centers and the like designated with the Marvel name or the name of any Marvel characters or any major entertainment component of a Marvel Action Universe such as a motion based film ride shall not be within 60 miles of any Universal Theme Park with a THE MARVEL UNIVERSE.
iii. Within the ADI market of the city containing a Universal Theme Park (even to the extent such ADI exceeds a 60 mile radius) there shall not be a Marvel themed simulator ride.
Andrew_Ryan
Well-Known Member
No, marni. New isn't enough. It has to be completely different. Like when my car got too old, it was clear that cars just wern't in anymore so I bought a brand new unicycle to start riding to work.
New isn't the operative word. Better is.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
I for one am never apologetic about prefering the intellectually and culturally superior experience.
Trust me in turn, there is a large class of people who do / would go to EPCOT to, to use your example, ride an a attraction about GMO's. Environmental and sustainability issues are a major current topic in cultured circles, who very much do crave an introduction to this subject entertaining enough to be suitable to kids and inspirational enough to engross the adult. To provide this is (was) unique, a stroke of genius. But alas, it is either not understood by TWDC, who have killed the goose with the golden eggs, or understood but simply discarded in the knowledge that the hordes who raise their kids on superheroes, celebs and 2k calorie burgers have poorer taste in spending as well and so will burn their kids college funds in a theme park holiday.
montyz81
Well-Known Member
The thing here is that I firmly believe that Disney could do both. (breaking into my Walt Disney voice) Imagine people learning from characters they love. Using the latest technology from American industry and integrating it with some of the beloved characters from Disney movies coming together to subtly teach about technology and the future while providing a bit of enjoyment is the pinnacle of what the Walt Disney Company is all about.
Biff215
Well-Known Member
I love it, but "flocking" might be an overstatement. It's often a walk-on, and Soarin' overflow certainly helps it. I think every pavilion could use an educational component like it, just not necessarily as the headliner.
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
Part of what makes the EPCOT issue so perplexing, as well, is that we have here a park with only about three attractions (currently) that draw anything resembling a significant wait time, yet it still ranks as the third most visited theme park in America and top five or six on planet Earth. Beyond that, there's clearly a dedicated fan base for the original EPCOT Center theming and attractions, yet not many who are going out of their way to shout their love for the current park; clearly, somebody at corporate knows this, evidenced by the continuing sale of retro EPCOT apparel even years on past the 30th anniversary.
It seems to me this implies that there is an audience out there if the original EPCOT concept could be designed and promoted well, and that it wouldn't take much for EPCOT's numbers to be impressive given that, again, it's highly ranked among all theme parks despite only ever having a significant waiting time at Test Track, Soarin', and now Frozen. Going whole hog and gutting the entire pavilion concept comes off like tossing out the baby with the bathwater, but I suppose the shareholders want to hear there's movement with Marvel properties and they want to hear it yesterday.
I do still believe that it's foolhardy to try to replicate the Potter experience with most properties; might be an interesting topic of conversation, to figure out what makes a property like HP work so well for theme design and why others might not have the same level of staying power or expansive opportunities. I think Disney's best bet if they want to get close to HP is Star Wars, but I'm not so sure about a lot of other possible ones.
It seems to me this implies that there is an audience out there if the original EPCOT concept could be designed and promoted well, and that it wouldn't take much for EPCOT's numbers to be impressive given that, again, it's highly ranked among all theme parks despite only ever having a significant waiting time at Test Track, Soarin', and now Frozen. Going whole hog and gutting the entire pavilion concept comes off like tossing out the baby with the bathwater, but I suppose the shareholders want to hear there's movement with Marvel properties and they want to hear it yesterday.
I do still believe that it's foolhardy to try to replicate the Potter experience with most properties; might be an interesting topic of conversation, to figure out what makes a property like HP work so well for theme design and why others might not have the same level of staying power or expansive opportunities. I think Disney's best bet if they want to get close to HP is Star Wars, but I'm not so sure about a lot of other possible ones.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
EXACTLY! If you are going to use characters, then at least use them to forward the narrative of the park... If Mr Ray was explaining how the seas were formed, and what could be found in them, it might have been a more complete experience rather than Nemo getting lost again... It's like the TDO organization just doesn't connect with the whole picture... it's "design by committee" and aiming for the lowest common denominator...and in the end fails to impress.
majortom1981
Active Member
That says action universe not cinematic universe.
This post alone proves why more educational aspects are needed. Especialy for entitled, participation trophy winning, facebook glorified, inscure children who feel threatened by others disagreeing with their desire for instant gratification.
HauntedMansionFLA
Well-Known Member
I believe its a given that EPCOT will change over to having various characters throughout Future World and World Show Case. With frozen being a hit, it gives the people in charge the excuse to validate these properties being brought in. It will be an interesting D23.
dm11
Active Member
I really like that idea - an educational component in each pavilion but not necessarily as the headliner. Living with the Land and Soarin' are definitely prime example of how this could work well. The Land definitely benefits from Soarin' overflow but it is a very good attraction in its own right. Combined with Soarin' it attracts bigger audience and contributes to the lineup.
asianway
Well-Known Member
I never felt so betrayed by Disney then when I saw the results of the 10 year "enhancements" they spoke about in the 92-93 Outreach handout when I saw what they wrought.
deere839
Well-Known Member
Witch is the same thing as long as hulk and spiderman is there they can't use any marvel property
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Disney did not get where it is today by putting profit above all else, it made an exceptional product that people really wanted to pay for. In the long run a profit first attitude could destroy what Disney has worked so hard in the part to build.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
The "Marvel Action Universe" was a retail concept that Marvel was planning, so it likely that this does not apply to the Disney parks, not to mention the fact that Disney had a regular M&G with Baymax (a Marvel character) for some time now, so clearly Disney is allowed to use some Marvel characters in their parks.
RobidaFlats
Well-Known Member
I definitely get what you're saying, but I have noticed that often there seems to be this false dichotomy between profit-driven evil villains and benevolent dream makers. I would argue that the real problem stems not from the desire to make money, but from the inability to look past immediate profit.
It is extremely hard to quantify things like "good-will", customer loyalty and other long-term aspects of business-customer relations. Yes, the most important relationship that any consumer and business will have is economic. But it is important to remember that even the economic relationship is more than just the immediate ring of the cash register.
I would submit two things:
1. Placing profit above all else could and should lead to making "an exceptional product that people really want" to pay for.
2. A "long run profit first attitude" could be beneficial to a company. The problem is that "long-run" rarely applies to the thinking of many companies these days.
Again, I definitely get what you're saying and I am in no way making the case that Disney is going in the right direction, I just found your post perfect for making those two points.
I've been trying to stay away from this thread and site because I quite literally find this news depressing and prefer not to think about it.
What kills me is that it wouldn't be that hard to have an interesting and popular pavilion about energy and about health and biology. I've got 100 ideas. That is pretty close to literal. Some of them are almost certainly good. Some of them even involve a franchise tie in. Apparently, creativity has gone the way of the dodo at Disney.
Correct. I really think this is the way their meetings go -
What kills me is that it wouldn't be that hard to have an interesting and popular pavilion about energy and about health and biology. I've got 100 ideas. That is pretty close to literal. Some of them are almost certainly good. Some of them even involve a franchise tie in. Apparently, creativity has gone the way of the dodo at Disney.
Correct. I really think this is the way their meetings go -
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Phil12
Well-Known Member
Sounds like something Walt would have said, "We were, of course, extremely enthused when our market research discovered central Florida. Now, I know some critics have implied that we are interested in the Florida Project solely for commercial reasons, for profit, but I believe we have an important obligation to help less fortunate areas upgrade their technology, profit is simply a bi-product we've learned to live with."
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