Great watch: The Senseless Death of EPCOT

[Mickeynerd17]

I miss feeling inspired

We all do.

That's why so many of us are passionate about EPCOT. We know what it was and what it can still be with enough imagination, creativity, and risk. Over it's 40 year history, the attractions it offered, from Horizons to Imagination, and from Spaceship Earth to American Adventure have deeply resonated and inspired us all who care so deeply about a simple amusement park.

Because it's not a simple amusement park. It's an idea and a dream.

I still vividly remember riding Test Track 1.0 as a 5 year old and being absolutely awe struck by everything inside that building. It was hands-down my favorite ride in the entire WDW resort. I'll lump the Energy dinos and even the current figment in that category too. That feeling is why I am pursuing a career in the amusement park industry and specifically WDI so I can recreate those experiences for others, and maybe play a small role in rediscovering EPCOT for what it truly is.

Sadly, it seems corporate executives can't wrap their minds around that, and I understand because $$$ is the bottom line. It's their job. It'd just all unfortunate its turning out this way.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

We all like to talk about EPCOT as the technology park or the edutainment park. I’ve always viewed it more simply.

At WDW, the Magic Kingdom was the “magical” park.
EPCOT was the “inspiration” park.

Disneyland was also a “magical” park
Tokyo Disneyland was also also a “magical” park

In the days when there were three castle parks and one non-castle park worldwide (before 1989), three pushed magic as their theme and only EPCOT did anything different. I never walked out of the Magic Kingdom feeling anything really. It would have been a fun day, but that was it. But I’d leave EPCOT feeling super inspired. Inspired by imagination, and the future, and the world. It inspired me to want to learn more about the things I’d seen. It inspired me to want to see the world. And it inspired me to want to make a better future. THAT was EPCOT to me, and that’s what it’s lost. I no longer feel inspired when visiting that park.

As has been said here many times, we’ve added more parks but despite the variety of gates we’ve lost varsity in the attractions and in the overall feeling of each park. And the more things are homogenized the more bland it feels. DisneySea is the only park these days that fees different to me. I get the feeling of exploration in that park. The rest all kinda run together with Disney trying to force the feeling of “magic” everywhere.

Why is Disney scared to have any variety in its theme park offerings? Have they really lost their sense of creativity?

I miss feeling inspired.

This. It was inspiration from our real world. It can still be fantastic and even whimsical or creatively licenced. But the focus remained optimism and inspiration.

It's the loss of that connective foundation and theme that's so sad.

 

[Admiral01]

I’m lucky enough to have visited all but two of the the resorts (not yet done Hong Kong and Shanghai). None of the current parks fills me with wonder and inspiration the way EPCOT did. Even the incredible quality of Tokyo DisneySea, subtle relaxation of California Adventure, and surprising charm of Disneyland Paris can’t compare with EPCOT Center.

This isn’t news to many of you. I just wish Disney understood that variety was a good thing, and that their current approach to homogenizing the parks is at its own detriment. WDW really has the opportunity (still) to have unique offerings. Not just a unique ride or two that isn’t available elsewhere, but unique experiences on the theme park level that the other resorts can barely dream within the constraints of their one or two parks.

I want them to do better. They can’t possible all be this dense.

This world seems to keep getting darker and some actual inspiration would go light years. Instead we have a roller coaster staring a raccoon, windows in the country’s second largest indoor aquarium covered up so we can rehash a search for Nemo, a Frozen rehash, Finding Donald Duck, singing along with a cartoon teapot, and half the year O Canada becomes an apple juice bar. It not only lacks inspiration, it lacks creativity. Disney gets lazier and lazier each day. And their solution is simply more synergy. Lazy.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Just a dash of reality here... Inspiration directed at a few people will not pay the bills. The cost of building and maintaining inspirational attractions is high and if the demand for it declines, at the same rate that our society has, then it becomes something that must change or die completely. A sad direction to go, but a real one. What you folks are forgetting is that just because some of us feel inspired far more of the public found it boring. Such is life, but a large percentage of the original still remains and is mixed with things that will bring in more people and thus hopefully support the park enough that what remains will remain.

 

[marni1971]

It’s a mess. An absolute dumbed down mess.

It’s no longer unique. No longer special. Just a wannabe castle (or studios) park. We now go to see what’s left and a few friends.

 

[Robbiem]

It’s no longer unique. No longer special. Just a wannabe castle (or studios) park.

this completely. For me the rot set in when Disney started to copy others rather than do its own thing. They went from leading to making their own version of the competition. Then Disney looked at itself and decided to copy magic Kingdom as the most successful park so everything became homogeneous because the spreadsheet said it made the best return on investment

 

[Goofyernmost]

this completely. For me the rot set in when Disney started to copy others rather than do its own thing. They went from leading to making their own version of the competition. Then Disney looked at itself and decided to copy magic Kingdom as the most successful park so everything became homogeneous because the spreadsheet said it made the best return on investment

Epcot is many things but one thing that it is not is MK. It's not even close. They have added things that they think might bring in more people that aren't just there to get drunk, but how anyone can say that it is MK are just kidding themselves. At some point I really hope that people could learn to enjoy what is there instead of mourning what isn't. It is certainly is different in many ways then it was 40 years ago but lets face it, those of us that were there 40 years ago have changed a lot too. I also greatly miss the original, but one thing I can do, if it bothers me that much, is just go to one of the three other parks or up the road to Universal.

 

[Br0ckford]

 

[Jrb1979]

Epcot is many things but one thing that it is not is MK. It's not even close. They have added things that they think might bring in more people that aren't just there to get drunk, but how anyone can say that it is MK are just kidding themselves. At some point I really hope that people could learn to enjoy what is there instead of mourning what isn't. It is certainly is different in many ways then it was 40 years ago but lets face it, those of us that were there 40 years ago have changed a lot too. I also greatly miss the original, but one thing I can do, if it bothers me that much, is just go to one of the three other parks or up the road to Universal.

No it's not MK but is heading that direction with all the IP they keep adding to the park. For me the best part was that it wasn't based on IP and the attractions were original. Now just about everything they add has to sell merch and have an IP attached.

 

[SaucyBoy]

For me, the last bit of joy and inspiration Epcot had for me died on September 30, 2019. Ever since then, the park has no longer been the same. Someone earlier said it best, there is not inspiration left in the park. Even back in 2008, when my super fan love for WDW was born, I still remember being in awe with the offerings of the park. I was a 15 year old from rural NC, so it didn't take much to impress me (lol). And until IllumiNations was killed, for the crap they have now, you could still count on feeling inspired for just 12 minutes. Now your day ends with Disney encouraging guests to feel sorry for themselves and hope that "someday" the world will be better.

 

[HauntedPirate]

We all like to talk about EPCOT as the technology park or the edutainment park. I’ve always viewed it more simply.

At WDW, the Magic Kingdom was the “magical” park.
EPCOT was the “inspiration” park.

Disneyland was also a “magical” park
Tokyo Disneyland was also also a “magical” park

In the days when there were three castle parks and one non-castle park worldwide (before 1989), three pushed magic as their theme and only EPCOT did anything different. I never walked out of the Magic Kingdom feeling anything really. It would have been a fun day, but that was it. But I’d leave EPCOT feeling super inspired. Inspired by imagination, and the future, and the world. It inspired me to want to learn more about the things I’d seen. It inspired me to want to see the world. And it inspired me to want to make a better future. THAT was EPCOT to me, and that’s what it’s lost. I no longer feel inspired when visiting that park.

As has been said here many times, we’ve added more parks but despite the variety of gates we’ve lost varsity in the attractions and in the overall feeling of each park. And the more things are homogenized the more bland it feels. DisneySea is the only park these days that fees different to me. I get the feeling of exploration in that park. The rest all kinda run together with Disney trying to force the feeling of “magic” everywhere.

Why is Disney scared to have any variety in its theme park offerings? Have they really lost their sense of creativity?

I miss feeling inspired.

Parks are run with a profit/ROI-first mentality these days. It’s the result of decades of institutional rot that started after the death of Frank Wells and Eisner’s heart attack and accelerated under the Bob’s. What’s left is a shadow of what used to be. Sadly.

There is no more inspiration and aspiration, just movie IP shoehorned wherever the mental gymnastics take it, along with food/beverage/alcohol sales plus as much overpriced crap as they can sell.

 

[Robbiem]

No it's not MK but is heading that direction with all the IP they keep adding to the park. For me the best part was that it wasn't based on IP and the attractions were original. Now just about everything they add has to sell merch and have an IP attached.

Exactly. I didn’t mean epcot is Magic Kingdom now but that it is getting attractions that you would put in a castle park. The other parks and resorts are the same. Rather than being their own thing each park now copies its successful competitors including magic Kindgdom and its identity is worn away.

I don’t want things frozen in aspic but I do think that the current IP showhorn approach is lazy. You could use IP in an epcot appropriate way but the will to be different has to be there

 

[Goofyernmost]

No it's not MK but is heading that direction with all the IP they keep adding to the park. For me the best part was that it wasn't based on IP and the attractions were original. Now just about everything they add has to sell merch and have an IP attached.

I know many will disagree but I don't think they had a lot of choice if they were to save the park. The biggest mistake they made was "retiring" all the real imagineers that hadn't already gone to that big theme park in the sky and replaced them with imagineer wannabe's that didn't have the refined imagination, engineering or leadership to create what had been created in the past.

 

[flynnibus]

Parks are run with a profit/ROI-first mentality these days. It’s the result of decades of institutional rot that started after the death of Frank Wells and Eisner’s heart attack and accelerated under the Bob’s. What’s left is a shadow of what used to be. Sadly.

There is no more inspiration and aspiration, just movie IP shoehorned wherever the mental gymnastics take it, along with food/beverage/alcohol sales plus as much overpriced crap as they can sell.

Walt Disney wanted to create new businesses with the belief success would follow greatness
TWDC today just likes to run businesses in the most optimal way

 

[Jrb1979]

I know many will disagree but I don't think they had a lot of choice if they were to save the park. The biggest mistake they made was "retiring" all the real imagineers that hadn't already gone to that big theme park in the sky and replaced them with imagineer wannabe's that didn't have the refined imagination, engineering or leadership to create what had been created in the past.

That may be true but at the same time not every new attraction needs to be IP based. IMO it's what made Epcot different.

 

[Goofyernmost]

That may be true but at the same time not every new attraction needs to be IP based. IMO it's what made Epcot different.

That is because at the time Epcot had a completely different mission statement that only worked for a brief time and before any IP's showed up they tried making some changes that due to the fact that Epcot required sponsors in order to operate without losses. The internet and other outside social and economic changes could only offer things that the later visitors where not looking for so IP's were added, relatively recently, to attempt to lure more younger generations into the park. It was either that or Epcot might have stopped even being a theme park. Into what... not a clue, but if you think it is weird now, that would have been very disturbing. For example, The Living Seas was upgraded originally by doing away with the Hydolators and the ride through the tank. The Hydolators are still gone but at least we got the Omni-mover ride through the aquarium again. They added Nemo, but that was as much Disney as any of the attractions in WDW.

Look, I agree that Epcot isn't what it once was and I am one of the originals that loved it, but I watched it die on the vine over the years and even if I agreed that IP's are a bad thing, I can accept the the old Epcot is dead but if people give what is new and some slightly modified older attractions half a chance they are still fun and worth experiencing. We just have to get past what once was and try and get some enjoyment out of what is. It ain't coming back.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

That is because at the time Epcot had a completely different mission statement that only worked for a brief time and before any IP's showed up they tried making some changes that due to the fact that Epcot required sponsors in order to operate without losses. The internet and other outside social and economic changes could only offer things that the later visitors where not looking for so IP's were added, relatively recently, to attempt to lure more younger generations into the park. It was either that or Epcot might have stopped even being a theme park. Into what... not a clue, but if you think it is weird now, that would have been very disturbing. For example, The Living Seas was upgraded originally by doing away with the Hydolators and the ride through the tank. The Hydolators are still gone but at least we got the Omni-mover ride through the aquarium again. They added Nemo, but that was as much Disney as any of the attractions in WDW.

Look, I agree that Epcot isn't what it once was and I am one of the originals that loved it, but I watched it die on the vine over the years and even if I agreed that IP's are a bad thing, I can accept the the old Epcot is dead but if people give what is new and some slightly modified older attractions are still fun and worth experiencing. We just have to get past what once was and try and get some enjoyment out of what is. It ain't coming back.

I guess that's the issue. Your last statement is very defeatist. Why do we have to get some enjoyment out of it. We don't. If you do, that's fine. But there's is zero obligation to do so. There are many, many versions of new Epcot that could have been celebrated. Things that combined IP with the original concepts of inspiration. I miss original EPCOT Center, no doubt. But I refuse to support the company because their new offerings are lazy and didn't have to deny the theme of the park.

I refuse to say corporate synergy for a quick hit of familiar characters is something to just be accepted.

 

[networkpro]

I guess that's the issue. Your last statement is very defeatist. Why do we have to get some enjoyment out of it. We don't. If you do, that's fine. But there's is zero obligation to do so. There are many, many versions of new Epcot that could have been celebrated. Things that combined IP with the original concepts of inspiration. I miss original EPCOT Center, no doubt. But I refuse to support the company because their new offerings are lazy and didn't have to deny the theme of the park.

I refuse to say corporate synergy for a quick hit of familiar characters is something to just be accepted.

Then you have a few options:
Build your own park(s).
Buy enough DIS stock be an actual force to be considered when designs are suggested or voted on.
Become an Imagineer and create those designs you want to see implemented.
Become a dictator and force all the changes you require to be implemented.

As you have pointed out, you have options, one of which is not to attend any that offend your sensibilities.

 

[wbostic12]

There seems to be an apparent difference between the current management and previous ones. Even with the shift from a creative focus to a more financial one with the past two CEOs, they still allowed for creativity within the parks that wasn’t necessarily the financially responsible thing to do, especially in the earlier years of their tenures. (Expansion in Disneyland for Eisner/Wells, DCA Transformation for Iger). I don’t see any evidence of that so far for the current management, and I don’t feel like I can see it happening anytime soon either.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I guess that's the issue. Your last statement is very defeatist. Why do we have to get some enjoyment out of it. We don't. If you do, that's fine. But there's is zero obligation to do so. There are many, many versions of new Epcot that could have been celebrated. Things that combined IP with the original concepts of inspiration. I miss original EPCOT Center, no doubt. But I refuse to support the company because their new offerings are lazy and didn't have to deny the theme of the park.

I refuse to say corporate synergy for a quick hit of familiar characters is something to just be accepted.

I understand your anger or disappointment but you are missing my point. They have changed the theme of the park. That is why they have placed the new stuff to try and revitalize it. Quality wise? I have made the point that they are no longer capable of or willing to invest that much in unknown entities and all we have to do to know that is think about how much the creation of EPCOT was when it was built and 10 years or so later they had to scratch to find stuff to keep the general public coming to the park. In it's time EPCOT Ctr. was indeed in the right time, but time and innovations changed that need or desire. I think that they are searching for the new great thing but want it to have a longer life then the original did. They did a terrific job on the creation of Star Wars Land in DHS but they needed a huge IP to work with. The original ability to imagine and build something brand new is no longer in the ability of imagineers or the ability to convince the money people that it might work, when they only want what is a no brainer for success.

And like I said, you don't have to accept it that is why I mentioned some alternatives. A lot of the really good Imagineers are now employed at Universal. However, the shear power of your individual boycott will really mean nothing until many more join in. I still love the park just for it's beauty and now that the entrance graveyard has been buried at least the entrance has very much the same feel.