Grading Walt Disney World Throughout the Decades

Mark Dunne

Active Member
Let's face it, when Walt created these parks of course the goal was to be successful and make money but he never lost site it had to be as perfect as possible, it had to impress and give great value with a wow. Unfortunately what sguashes innovation and great things is CORPORATE GREED! CEO,s who don't respect or love the product they are a temporary custodian of will put profits ahead of the product. It's the amazing shrinking package. There is a just make it ok attitude. The employees seem to be the ones that love it more than the CEO's and keep the feeling alive. I see many things today that would not have been acceptable before. People do notice! My prediction is that Disney will be passed by universal soon and the only hope will be to totally separate the parks from their other business components. It has to operate on its own, the profits have to be poured back into the parks. The crowds keep coming so it gives the company the view that everything is ok. They think ok is good enough. Wrong it will catch up and when it happens it happens fast. I've seen popular clubs and restaurant riding high then puff its over.
Wow,this is probably the best post I've read,and very close to my heart,I feel the exact pain,I'm not sure bob iger has a clue when it comes to values,I'm not even sure avatar will save it,I mean that film gets panned now,just read the threads going round,like I've said before,I love Star Wars,but am concerned about direction of the franchise now in disneys hand,and I don't much like marvel(dr strange being my favourite),your right about universal studios,there Spider-Man and transformers rides are first rate,and when any things gets old they remove it.there is so much in WDW that needs major overhaul ,but they want more cruise ships I hear,Walt Disney did NOT stand still in inovations,there is just no way he would not update MK.im all for respect,but it's to far now.its hard to sum it up but really I feel people like Walt Disney,Steve jobs,bill gates,etc the great people that put everything into success,will not be replaced for a very long time,thanks
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
.its hard to sum it up but really I feel people like Walt Disney,Steve jobs,bill gates,etc the great people that put everything into success,will not be replaced for a very long time,thanks
I personally feel that people of that caliber will be slowly phased out of society but that brings up a whole other can of worms that this is not the proper place to address.
 

Mark Dunne

Active Member
I personally feel that people of that caliber will be slowly phased out of society but that brings up a whole other can of worms that this is not the proper place to address.
I'm just saying these innovators come round once in a blue moon,Walt being probably the greatest visionary of the entertainment world,and it's just a shame that standards slip,and they DO slip no doubt about it,but we all still love Disney world,maybe as adults we become to fussy and nit pick,fact is when we enter the World,we all become kids again.and that's the whole reason we keep coming back.thx for reply
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Having stayed onsite at WDW twice in the last 2 months, the following is updated to include a grade for 2017:

WDW Historical Grade.jpg


Pandora definitely is a plus for Disney's Animal Kingdom. My DW thinks Flight of Passage is WDW's best attraction. I liked it, although nowhere near as much. We both think Na'vi River Journey is just OK.

We both think Pandora is nicely themed. We also both enjoyed our two meals at Satu'li Canteen, appreciating Disney's boldness with its food offerings.

Prices continue their steady increase. At $9.99 just a few years ago, I once called Blizzard Beach's and Typhoon Lagoon's Sand Pail the best bargain in all of WDW. At this year's price of $13.99, it is (unfortunately) indicative of what's happening to WDW prices.

Sand Pail.jpg


I still don't see the level of maintenance and cleanliness there once was. I found myself picking up trash several times, even as Cast Members walked by. And with an average Standard View price of over $500 per night, would it be asking too much to replace burnt out light bulbs at the Yacht Club?

Yacht Club.jpg


(I saw similar minor problems at other Disney Deluxe Resorts. Head over to the nearby Four Seasons if you want a sense of what you should expect at these prices.)

Overall, I increased WDW's grade by '1' for 2017 (from '86' to '87'), reflecting the addition of Pandora and Rivers of Light.
 
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UpAllNight

Well-Known Member
I agree with the progress made over the past year....it did feel better in 2017 than 2015.

Something not mentioned so much, but I'd argue has been a major positive, is the refresh in entertainment across the resort. I really enjoyed Happy Ever After...and I was glad they finally replaced the Castle show. I also loved what they did with the Muppets. Streetmosphere like I Robot (is that the name?) seemed to me to be much improved on 2015.

Across the other parks, as you mentioned Rivers of Light and the Tree awakenings, and the Music of Pixar Live have all been good additions. Since your last bump as well, they replaced the pre-fireworks show in MK, and introduced the Star Wars projection show at DHS. 3 of these just mentioned were additions and not replacements although I appreciate we have lost the nighttime parade at MK. I would personally bump a further mark for these reasons....as there seems to be a greater pride and urgency in making much overdue changes.

Apparently the festival of arts was a big plus for Epcot too.
 
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JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
I have a well-earned reputation for charts and decided it was time to create one with my own made-up metric; what I call the "Walt Disney World Historical Grade" chart. :)

Using a scale of 0 to 100, with 100 meaning "absolutely fabulous" and 0 meaning "it's a dump and should be closed", I graded Walt Disney World (WDW) for each year since its opening in 1971. Ultimately I decided to grade WDW against itself, using its peak years as the Gold Standard.

It's an arbitrary chart based on my opinion of the quality and value of WDW over the decades. It's not based on real data. You might very well have a different opinion.

Without further ado, my latest chart:

View attachment 200615


WDW was by no means perfect when it opened in 1971. The Magic Kingdom was a work in progress but still managed to blow the competition out of the water (only Disneyland was better) with an unflinching commitment to making its Guests happy.

Things only got better from there, with classic attractions such as Pirates of the Caribbean (POTC) and Space Mountain opening in the mid-1970s, River Country in 1976, followed by Big Thunder Mountain (BTM) in 1980.

WDW peaked with the opening of Epcot in 1982. Quality remained outstanding while total ticket price decreased. Previously, admission and attraction tickets were sold separately. Concerned about using that pricing scheme at Epcot, Disney leadership created a combined ticket, discontinuing attraction booklets. I recall many being upset about it but as someone who simply wanted to ride attractions all day long, the new tickets were perfect!

That perfection continued for a few years until Michael Eisner became CEO. One of his earliest actions was to increase ticket prices by double-digits. Those upset with the 1982 ticket change were furious with Eisner's massive increases, which continued from 1984 to 1988.

Attitudes greatly improved with the opening of Disney-MGM Studios and Typhoon Lagoon (TL) in 1989. Disney-MGM Studios got off to a rough start; there simply wasn't much to do. However, by the end of the year with the opening of the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular and Star Tours, Disney-MGM Studios finally felt like a theme park worthy of the Disney name. Typhoon Lagoon was amazing, unlike any other water park in the World. It made the quaint River Country seem amateurish. By 1990, the anger resulting from the price increases had been largely forgotten. With 3 theme parks, 2 water parks, a shopping district, and a nightclub district, WDW finally felt worthy of a week's vacation.

By the early 1990s, the wood was starting to rot beneath the glittering façade. Disney’s Strategic Planning unit began to micromanage theme park decisions. Gone was the uncompromising commitment to excellence, superseded by a cost-benefit-analysis of every aspect of the resort. Year-by-year, quality slipped, replaced by a "good enough" attitude. Many devoted frontline Cast Members remained but senior management was forced out, supplanted by those "sharp-pencil guys" Walt Disney had warned about decades before. Externally, all was well. Internally, Disney’s Old Guard was fading, never to return.

Still, the 1990s experienced many exciting additions. Splash Mountain (SM) opened in 1992. Arguably WDW's best attraction, Tower of Terror (TOT), opened in 1994, followed by Blizzard Beach (BB) in 1995. To the casual Guest, it was a glorious decade.

Perhaps WDW's last gasp of true greatness occurred with the opening of Disney's Animal Kingdom (DAK) in 1998. It should have been WDW's high-water mark. Instead, DAK opened with too few attractions and struggled with an image problem. (Remember the 2001 "Nahtazu" campaign?) Hardcore Disney fans were disappointed.

The slow decay continued as Eisner was under increasing pressure by Wall Street to improve margin, yet WDW still was an excellent resort, still the best in the World.

The vacation industry took a nosedive after those horrific events of September 11. WDW was not immune. Projects were cancelled, hotels were shuttered, Cast Members were laid off. Operating expenses were slashed and, for many, declining quality became visible for the first time.

After the initial shock, Disney took steps to correct its downturn in business, primarily through deep discounts such as the "Buy Four, Get Three Free" campaign. WDW's affordability improved even as the economy struggled.

WDW experienced another uptick with the introduction of the Magic Your Way (MYW) ticket in 2005 and the opening of Expedition Everest (EE) in 2006. Using an a la cart pricing scheme, the MYW ticket improved WDW's affordability for those seeking an entry-level theme park experience, while EE represented WDW's last great attraction to date.

The late 2000s arguably represent WDW's low point. Even though Strategic Planning had closed shop in 2005, budget cuts continued as corporate Disney increasingly nickel-and-dimed its Guests. Worse, for the first time in its history, capital expenditures were not keeping up with depreciation. The parks were aging yet Disney was deferring basic maintenance. It showed, with each year getting a bit worse than the year before.

Opened in 2012, the New Fantasyland (NFL) represented a change in direction, expanding WDW's most popular land in the World's most popular theme park. Yet ultimately it added only 2 attractions, replacing 2 that had closed. It was a small improvement but with much unrealized potential. NFL could have been so much more. NFL should have been more.

It's difficult to grade WDW since 2012. There have been several modest improvements yet there also have been more cost cutting and price increases, largely cancelling each other out. The net effect is a WDW no longer at its nadir, but not yet on the mend.

That brings us to today. Pandora promises to be WDW’s first major addition since the opening of DAK, with more planned for later this decade. Let's wait for its opening before grading 2017.

And let the debate begin! :)
Thank you and again I don't understand how I missed this post. It is outstanding and mirrors my relationship with WDW. I will be linking it in the future.
 

John

Well-Known Member
I was so glad that in your last post you addressed the level of maintenance. I thought your and other members grades only graded the parks and their attractions. On that alone WDW is tops. At least till the very recent past with UNi really upping their game. WHat I grade WDW on is the level of service, things like maintenance, food quality, Cast members in general, small things. The things that gave WDW the "Disney difference. The things that made me fall in love with WDW and made it the most visited vacation destination on the planet. I took a few years off and recently returned to the world. Yes, there has been some additions. First I think Disney knocked it out of the park (pun intended) with Disney Springs. I was one of those ol'timers that loved the Disney Village ( pre-Downtown Disney...how many of you remember that?) There is something for literally everyone. Has atmosphere and ambiance oozing from every nook and cranny. Yes it is a "lifestyle" center. But very few like it, And hey its Disney! Now for the bad news. Things like cleanliness at the resorts is severely lacking. The varity of food offerings is something Universal has not mastered like Disney but the food quality has even dipped further. Homogenization of menus has continued. I remember when every resort had a head chef on staff. When things like burgers were cooked to order. Deserts were a area of pride for the entire WDW resort. Now pre-made cupcakes are trucked in daily....BLECH! Long time extremely experienced skilled Cast members have been replaced by younger ( most try very hard and are very nice) folks. Cast members who do not truly understand and can not preform up to the standards of the "Disney Difference". The que lines just seem to grow longer and longer. Lines that once never existed seem to magically appear. There are lines for everything. Nothing is a walk on.....cept' COP...LOL love that attraction! I remember when they would put stockings on the resort room doors for the children in the rooms at Christmas. These little things are gone. Yet we continually pay more and more. Squeezed at every turn for every penny. As time goes on everything is an "up charge". Unlike a time when everything was included. It was all "magical" Now sadly there is plenty of magic available but it is all at a price. In the end I still love the place....always will. Strangely I think your grade of 87 is pretty close. But believe you graded it on a curve....LOL On the "Disney Difference" scale I have to give them a 77.
 

Starlight67

Well-Known Member
Lines that once never existed seem to magically appear. There are lines for everything.

Exactly. Suddenly lines everywhere. It must be related to the FP+ system. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't have access to FP and pays the admission to the parks and expects to get on rides without burning half the day standing on line. It seems like these these guests really get screwed. Even when you have a fast pass there can be a line. It seems that with the old fast pass system this was not the case. Old system=walk up, get on ride. New system=walk up and wait on line, (not a long wait, longest wait was 20 mins with a fast pass at Pirates in January of this year.) 20 mins is a doable wait of course; I'm just really commenting on the difference between the old system and the new system.

I can't really account for the longer lines at counter service restaurants though. They SEEMED longer this year than on my trip to DW three years ago (though I might be wrong.)

As time goes on everything is an "up charge". Unlike a time when everything was included. I
Agree! Predictions of upcharges we may see in the future: housekeeping services (I know they are paying us $10.00 a night not to have the service right now, but this may just be in preparation of what's to come!) Not out of the realm of possibility that character meet and greets become an upcharge too. An upcharge for magical express service could be waiting in the wings too. It just seems that nothing that is now included is immune to the possibility of becoming an additional charge. Not saying this is unique to Disney. Kind of happening everywhere in life!
 

DarthVader

Sith Lord
There are lines for everything
I'll see first hand how things have changed over the past few years as I return to WDW this April. I've done the best I can to mentally prepare myself and my family for the fact that this place is going to be very crowded and there is no way we can "rush" through anything. At best we'll be wading through a sea of humanity in FLA temps and humidity. So much so, its best for us to just take a laid back approach. I hope this theory works in practice :)


Squeezed at every turn for every penny. As time goes on everything is an "up charge".
This is what bothers me the most, the incessent price increases, the fees where fees never existed. I read somehwere that Disney has increased prices and implemented a premium pricing tier on their tickets not for profits per say, but rather thin the herd from showing up. Make it pricier so the crowds are as crushing. There's a certain logic to that line of thinking, but I'm not entire sold its for crowd managment but rather for profits.
 

wendysue

Well-Known Member
I have a well-earned reputation for charts and decided it was time to create one with my own made-up metric; what I call the "Walt Disney World Historical Grade" chart. :)

Using a scale of 0 to 100, with 100 meaning "absolutely fabulous" and 0 meaning "it's a dump and should be closed", I graded Walt Disney World (WDW) for each year since its opening in 1971. Ultimately I decided to grade WDW against itself, using its peak years as the Gold Standard.

It's an arbitrary chart based on my opinion of the quality and value of WDW over the decades. It's not based on real data. You might very well have a different opinion.

Without further ado, my latest chart:

View attachment 200615


WDW was by no means perfect when it opened in 1971. The Magic Kingdom was a work in progress but still managed to blow the competition out of the water (only Disneyland was better) with an unflinching commitment to making its Guests happy.

Things only got better from there, with classic attractions such as Pirates of the Caribbean (POTC) and Space Mountain opening in the mid-1970s, River Country in 1976, followed by Big Thunder Mountain (BTM) in 1980.

WDW peaked with the opening of Epcot in 1982. Quality remained outstanding while total ticket price decreased. Previously, admission and attraction tickets were sold separately. Concerned about using that pricing scheme at Epcot, Disney leadership created a combined ticket, discontinuing attraction booklets. I recall many being upset about it but as someone who simply wanted to ride attractions all day long, the new tickets were perfect!

That perfection continued for a few years until Michael Eisner became CEO. One of his earliest actions was to increase ticket prices by double-digits. Those upset with the 1982 ticket change were furious with Eisner's massive increases, which continued from 1984 to 1988.

Attitudes greatly improved with the opening of Disney-MGM Studios and Typhoon Lagoon (TL) in 1989. Disney-MGM Studios got off to a rough start; there simply wasn't much to do. However, by the end of the year with the opening of the Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular and Star Tours, Disney-MGM Studios finally felt like a theme park worthy of the Disney name. Typhoon Lagoon was amazing, unlike any other water park in the World. It made the quaint River Country seem amateurish. By 1990, the anger resulting from the price increases had been largely forgotten. With 3 theme parks, 2 water parks, a shopping district, and a nightclub district, WDW finally felt worthy of a week's vacation.

By the early 1990s, the wood was starting to rot beneath the glittering façade. Disney’s Strategic Planning unit began to micromanage theme park decisions. Gone was the uncompromising commitment to excellence, superseded by a cost-benefit-analysis of every aspect of the resort. Year-by-year, quality slipped, replaced by a "good enough" attitude. Many devoted frontline Cast Members remained but senior management was forced out, supplanted by those "sharp-pencil guys" Walt Disney had warned about decades before. Externally, all was well. Internally, Disney’s Old Guard was fading, never to return.

Still, the 1990s experienced many exciting additions. Splash Mountain (SM) opened in 1992. Arguably WDW's best attraction, Tower of Terror (TOT), opened in 1994, followed by Blizzard Beach (BB) in 1995. To the casual Guest, it was a glorious decade.

Perhaps WDW's last gasp of true greatness occurred with the opening of Disney's Animal Kingdom (DAK) in 1998. It should have been WDW's high-water mark. Instead, DAK opened with too few attractions and struggled with an image problem. (Remember the 2001 "Nahtazu" campaign?) Hardcore Disney fans were disappointed.

The slow decay continued as Eisner was under increasing pressure by Wall Street to improve margin, yet WDW still was an excellent resort, still the best in the World.

The vacation industry took a nosedive after those horrific events of September 11. WDW was not immune. Projects were cancelled, hotels were shuttered, Cast Members were laid off. Operating expenses were slashed and, for many, declining quality became visible for the first time.

After the initial shock, Disney took steps to correct its downturn in business, primarily through deep discounts such as the "Buy Four, Get Three Free" campaign. WDW's affordability improved even as the economy struggled.

WDW experienced another uptick with the introduction of the Magic Your Way (MYW) ticket in 2005 and the opening of Expedition Everest (EE) in 2006. Using an a la cart pricing scheme, the MYW ticket improved WDW's affordability for those seeking an entry-level theme park experience, while EE represented WDW's last great attraction to date.

The late 2000s arguably represent WDW's low point. Even though Strategic Planning had closed shop in 2005, budget cuts continued as corporate Disney increasingly nickel-and-dimed its Guests. Worse, for the first time in its history, capital expenditures were not keeping up with depreciation. The parks were aging yet Disney was deferring basic maintenance. It showed, with each year getting a bit worse than the year before.

Opened in 2012, the New Fantasyland (NFL) represented a change in direction, expanding WDW's most popular land in the World's most popular theme park. Yet ultimately it added only 2 attractions, replacing 2 that had closed. It was a small improvement but with much unrealized potential. NFL could have been so much more. NFL should have been more.

It's difficult to grade WDW since 2012. There have been several modest improvements yet there also have been more cost cutting and price increases, largely cancelling each other out. The net effect is a WDW no longer at its nadir, but not yet on the mend.

That brings us to today. Pandora promises to be WDW’s first major addition since the opening of DAK, with more planned for later this decade. Let's wait for its opening before grading 2017.

And let the debate begin! :)

You should send this to Disney, or better yet, the stockholders. I know they didn't much care when they refunded our AP's after I told them some of this, but maybe seeing it in chart form...
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
We're getting talks of expenditures at the same time we're getting talks of cuts to Toy Story and hiring freezes. At this point I don't see any reason to actually trust anything they hype until it hits.

Right now Disney P&R is the only division firing on all cylinders, So of course we take money AWAY from the business that works and pour it into failing (but politically more popular divisions). Seen this failure strategy way too many times in my career.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
1970s - A+
1980s - B
1990s - A-
2000s - F-
2010s - C


I'd have to disagree here on the 2000's Up till about 2012 parks were still pleasant to visit no visible trash but there were necessary cuts after the 2008-9 fiscal crisis. But 2010 even after the economy recovered the cuts just kept coming and they continue to this day.

1999-2005 C+
2006-2010 D
2010- F
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I'd have to disagree here on the 2000's Up till about 2012 parks were still pleasant to visit no visible trash but there were necessary cuts after the 2008-9 fiscal crisis. But 2010 even after the economy recovered the cuts just kept coming and they continue to this day.

1999-2005 C+
2006-2010 D
2010- F

I’m not talking cuts...i’m Talking investment and relative experience. So while yes they were more user friendly...the poop storm now was formed from 2002-2015

And your grades are trolling even for me...which I assume is your whole point.

No one with a brain can criticize the original buildout in Orlando...it was amazing from an engineering standpoint and will never be repeated.
 

Starlight67

Well-Known Member
Make it pricier so the crowds are as crushing. There's a certain logic to that line of thinking, but I'm not entire sold its for crowd managment but rather for profits.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm buying this either. Because Disney always has had and does have the ability to cap the number of guests in any park when it gets to a certain number. (Plus there's got to be some fire marshal rule involved!). Of course if they keep increasing prices it will be affordable for only people who are wealthier (or at least well-off) to visit. And wealthy guests with lots of disposable income are a big win for Disney. People with money are able to buy a lot more stuff in the park than your average middle class visitor; and be more likely to pay for upcharge events.
 

John

Well-Known Member
EVERY business model has a breaking point. IMO this too will end one day. You can not continue to go to the well and it not affect attendance. Thanks to PO4 he has recorded the continual increases year after year. We all know it has long passed the point of the increases growing faster then incomes. Yet Disney continues to drive per guest spending like a team of mules. One of the biggest selling points in DIsney's marketing from day one thru the 90's was WDW's all-inclusive vacation. Now we the only consistent thing we can count on is price increases and cuts. I know, they just opened Pandora, has Toy Story ready to open and Star Wars under construction. But is that WDW? Is that what made the place? Is that what brought you there to begin with? I remember when the word was "you could eat of main street" because of how clean the place was kept. Where everyone who came through the turnstiles were treated like royalty. Now it depends on your customer profile who will get the royal treatment. I dont mind paying exorbitant prices. Just give me the quality and service that is comensurate to what I pay. I am not OK with waiting what amounts to many hours during my visit waitng in line. I know it is WDW and waiting in line is a part of the experience. But if I dont have a fast pass for FOP I have to decide if I want to wait FOUR hours to ride it. Unacceptable, I am not going to pay a kings ransom and have to wait in a four hour line. Over the course of a vacation how many hours do we wait in lines? A days worth? Two days worth? So we spend thousands of dollars to wait in lines. Fast pass is for Disney, not for the guest. I think in the end I grade WDW against itself. The standard Disney set. If you do that they fail misrably. I never mentioned the puddle of soda I seen in a resort evelvator that laid there, dried up, collected dirt for my entire stay! I just cant get past it. Grade for value versus what you pay....F. Cumulative grade, giving credit where credit is due.......they have made additions. C. They pass. They are still living off their legacy. That will only last so long until recent history becomes their legacy. Good luck with that Disney! Just in time for the Iger to sail off in to the sunset. You rat. It has been a while since I vented....I dont want to hijack PO4's post. Thanks for listening.
 

Mark Dunne

Active Member
1970s - A+
1980s - B
1990s - A-
2000s - F-
2010s - C
Yey that score of F- must be the Eisner years, I went last year still had a ball , best time the wife and I have had without the kids I must say( don’t tell my son that 18 now ) but the word imagination is a bit of a lost word now, yeah avatar is amazing no dought, but franchises will take over, shame , good post
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
You should send this to Disney, or better yet, the stockholders. I know they didn't much care when they refunded our AP's after I told them some of this, but maybe seeing it in chart form...
No they should stop going. Seriously. If I rated a vacation spot with Fs and Ds why would I continue to go there. Lol when DISNEY gets an "f" from me, They get no more of my money.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
Disney certainly has problems. Fortunately Universal is making them step up there game.

Staying at Yacht Club this December and might just hop over to Uni for a day. Ultimate park hopper there.
 

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