GMR & Fantasyland Rehabs??

[TP2000]

Any ADA compliance law does not just apply to Disney. Manta and the new coaster at Uni and nearly all new coasters are not ADA compliant obviously. The simple answer is theme park rides are excempt from the law.

Exactly. There are far more rides that can NOT accept a wheelchair than there are that can. Pirates, Splash, Space, Thunder, Dumbo, Teacups, Tower, SSE, Test Track, Maelstrom, etc., etc. Most of those you have to park the wheelchair and maneuver yourself into and out of a vehicle that requires a step down into the seat. Many of those types of rides if you take too long with boarding, the other vehicles back up and the ride shuts down. It's not just a TTA thing, although I understand the added complexity of the moving belt.

Back OT, as for Peter Pan at WDW, couldn't they at least give that thing a rehab and get it out of the Brady Bunch era?!? Last time I went on Pan at WDW, not only was the overall look and vibe of the attraction very tired and dingy looking, but it was obvious they haven't invested in new technology for that attraction in many years. Compared to Disneyland, which has been updated with new lighting and imaging tech several times over since it was rebuilt in 1983, the WDW version looks like a monument to the 1970's.

Just a good month long rehab for thorough cleaning, painting and freshening of the sets would do wonders. Disneyland's Peter Pan just happens to be closed for rehab this month for that exact thing (plus a new fleet of boats), even though it already looked far better than WDW's version when it closed for the month of May. Would it kill WDW to do the same thing on occasion?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Would it kill WDW to do the same thing on occasion?

Apparently it would.

Your more likely to get an entry to the "Name the Crocodile" contest than a good thorough rehab of most MK attractions.

 

[AEfx]

Any ADA compliance law does not just apply to Disney. Manta and the new coaster at Uni and nearly all new coasters are not ADA compliant obviously.

Exactly. There are far more rides that can NOT accept a wheelchair than there are that can. Pirates, Splash, Space, Thunder, Dumbo, Teacups, Tower, SSE, Test Track, Maelstrom, etc., etc. Most of those you have to park the wheelchair and maneuver yourself into and out of a vehicle that requires a step down into the seat. Many of those types of rides if you take too long with boarding, the other vehicles back up and the ride shuts down. It's not just a TTA thing, although I understand the added complexity of the moving belt.

Who knew someone would try to start an argument out of this, LOL. :shrug:

I don't think you guys understand what ADA-compliance is about in terms of accessibility to theme-park rides. It does not mean "you can ride the attraction on a wheelchair". It means is the queue and loading procedure are accessible to wheelchairs, and the ability to transfer to and from the chair to the ride vehicle.

jt04, I checked into Mantra, as you have used as an example. If you review Sea World Orlando's accessibility guide (page 30-31) you will see that indeed, Mantra is wheelchair-accessible. That does not mean you can take your wheelchair on the attraction, it means that you can take your wheelchair through the queue and can position it next to the ride vehicle and transfer. That is ADA-compliance.

TP2000 - All of those rides are wheelchair-accessible. I know, because my niece is in a wheelchair and I have taken her on every single attraction you mentioned. Again, you also seem under the mis-impression that wheelchair accessability means "bring your wheelchair on board". While it's so awesome that Disney allows people to bring their wheelchair on so many newer attractions, it is not part of ADA-compliance, it's just something that they very nicely do for the disabled guests.

TTA and Peter Pan are the only moving rides in the WDW parks, as I stated originally, that do not feature wheelchair accessability. TTA strictly does not allow it, you must be able to stand to board that attraction (or be carried, though that only works for disabled children, the CM will not allow you to carry an adult up the escalator).

Peter Pan has gotten a bit better (there is a wheelchair door to the loading area now) but as part of Standard Operations they cannot stop the ride/walkway as every single other ride of that style can (Haunted Mansion, SSE, etc.) because of the original attraction design not allowing for it. Cars/ride vehicles can get "backed up" at other attractions; if it happens at Pan, the ride must be shut down (and, it used to be, everyone inside the ride had to be evac'd by Reddy Creek, not sure if that is still SOP but it was as of just a few years ago).

The only other attraction at WDW that is not accessable is the Tree House, but that attraction does not have a moving vehicle. If there are any other attractions you are wondering about, feel free to ask - as I can tell you how to load each and every other one with a wheelchair-using guest as I've done it many times over.

 

[TP2000]

TTA and Peter Pan are the only moving rides in the WDW parks, as I stated originally, that do not feature wheelchair accessability. TTA strictly does not allow it, you must be able to stand to board that attraction (or be carried, though that only works for disabled children, the CM will not allow you to carry an adult up the escalator).

Ah, got it. I can understand how the rotating disc and line of TTA trains wouldn't be able to be stopped as they are independent out on the track yet connected in the station.

FWIW, the Disneyland version of Peter Pan doesn't use a load belt. It works just like the other Fantasyland dark rides like Mr. Toad, Snow White, Alice in Wonderland, etc. with the cars starting and stopping independently. Except at Pan the track hangs above you obviously, rather than riding on top of it.

 

[TP2000]

Your more likely to get an entry to the "Name the Crocodile" contest than a good thorough rehab of most MK attractions.

And that's something I don't think I'll ever understand. Peter Pan at Disneyland is closed for the month of May for rehab and installation of the new boat fleet. When Pan opens in early June, then Snow White closes for a month. Then when Snow White is done, Pinnochio's Daring Journey closes for July into August, then they do Mr. Toad for a month into September. Alice in Wonderland got a big rehab last year with new digital imaging tech added and special effects upgrades, so I don't think it closes this fall.

These are the classic Walt-esque Fantasyland dark rides. Why wouldn't you lavish them with TLC and regular rehabs?

 

[AEfx]

Ah, got it. I can understand how the rotating disc and line of TTA trains wouldn't be able to be stopped as they are independent out on the track yet connected in the station.

FWIW, the Disneyland version of Peter Pan doesn't use a load belt. It works just like the other Fantasyland dark rides like Mr. Toad, Snow White, Alice in Wonderland, etc. with the cars starting and stopping independently. Except at Pan the track hangs above you obviously, rather than riding on top of it.

That's my understanding of the issue at TTA as well. It's not that it would be that difficult to get people up there (an alternate to the moving flat belt up), and in fact, because we are adventurous we would probably try to take the chair up there anyway if they let you, LOL. It's the fact that it can't be stopped fully for someone to transfer.

Basically, the ADA thing comes in where you would normally physically be able to ride a public moving vehicle (and there has always been a great debate over if theme park rides were "public" vehicles in the past, but that's another topic entirely), but because you are in a wheelchair there is no way for you to board.

So, as long as you are physically able to experience an attraction they have to design it in which a way you can reasonably board it if you are disabled, yet physically able enough for the actual ride. That's why there are often restrictions (if you check out the Sea World brochure I posted above you'll see an example, Disney does this as well) such as you need at least one mobile arm to be able to grip the ride restraints, etc. They aren't obligated to make every ride ride-able to every person, but if they do design a ride that can be experience by just sitting there, for example, they do have to give you a way to get on it.

That's nice to hear about Disneyland's Pan, a couple of years ago they redid the queue and loading area and I have heard that it made the whole process a lot easier. As I understand at WDW the problem is that they just can't stop the things because of the ride mechanism, and if they made any kind of change to the structure itself it's my understanding that's when the ADA would kick in and they'd loose the "grandfather" clause status.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

These are the classic Walt-esque Fantasyland dark rides. Why wouldn't you lavish them with TLC and regular rehabs?

Spending money is scary because it means you can't keep it. Plus some people might complain, and one month's worth of complaints is much worse than years of superior guests/cast experiences.

 

[lebeau]

And that's something I don't think I'll ever understand. Peter Pan at Disneyland is closed for the month of May for rehab and installation of the new boat fleet. When Pan opens in early June, then Snow White closes for a month. Then when Snow White is done, Pinnochio's Daring Journey closes for July into August, then they do Mr. Toad for a month into September. Alice in Wonderland got a big rehab last year with new digital imaging tech added and special effects upgrades, so I don't think it closes this fall.

These are the classic Walt-esque Fantasyland dark rides. Why wouldn't you lavish them with TLC and regular rehabs?

Lots of reasons.

First, let's look at the difference between Disney World and Disneyland. Disneyland has a base of locals who are passionate about the park and Disney. They get excited about refurbs to classic attractions and will complain vocally if these attractions fall into disrepair.

Orlando is full of tourists. Most of these tourists are on a "once-in-a-lifetime" vacation. They don't especially care about things that are "classic" or "Walt-esque". And they probably won't know the difference anyway.

If you want to draw more tourists to Orlando, spending money on refurbs of dark rides isn't the way to go. Instead, you spend those dollars on flashy new attractions that you can advertise.

Yeah, in a perfect world I'd like to see these old rides get the TLC they deserve. But they are in the state they are in for practical reasons. It's all about the money.

 

[sponono88]

The Locals vs. Tourists excuse is not good enough nor is it true. Disneyland gets a lot of locals, but it's not like it's a local town fair.. it is visited by tourists from all over the world.

you're saying that guests at WDW are there for a once-in-a-lifetime trip.. isn't it worth it then to make a good first impression?

if building flashy new attractions is the only way to go then they should really start getting busy.

 

[SirGoofy]

Orlando is full of tourists. Most of these tourists are on a "once-in-a-lifetime" vacation. They don't especially care about things that are "classic" or "Walt-esque". And they probably won't know the difference anyway.

Guess what? I know friends who have been on their "once in a lifetime" trip, and rides were closed. Did they flip out an not have a good time? Absolutely not.

TDO needs to realize that a lot of their rides(mostly in MK) are in poor shape, and need yearly maintenance.

 

[WDW1974]

Lots of reasons.

First, let's look at the difference between Disney World and Disneyland. Disneyland has a base of locals who are passionate about the park and Disney. They get excited about refurbs to classic attractions and will complain vocally if these attractions fall into disrepair.

Orlando is full of tourists. Most of these tourists are on a "once-in-a-lifetime" vacation. They don't especially care about things that are "classic" or "Walt-esque". And they probably won't know the difference anyway.

Why is it that this bull&*$# excuse is tossed out as a reason for Disney to allow attractions to fall into disrepair and not offer fresh and seasonal offerings?

It's funny how back in the days when Disney believed in show that no one ever complained about attractions being down for refurbs.

I guess only in the last decade when Disney went WalMart did the once in a lifetime vistors start coming ... and complaining.

Good thing in the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s only locals, APers and repeat visitors came.

It's also a good thing that all those once in a lifers are stupid, non-disercening bumpkins who can't tell when an animatronic is not working or when something is falling apart etc ...

How do arguments like the tourist one make sense? No. Don't answer. Rhetorical.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Why is it that this bull&*$# excuse is tossed out as a reason for Disney to allow attractions to fall into disrepair and not offer fresh and seasonal offerings?

It's funny how back in the days when Disney believed in show that no one ever complained about attractions being down for refurbs.

I guess only in the last decade when Disney went WalMart did the once in a lifetime vistors start coming ... and complaining.

Good thing in the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s only locals, APers and repeat visitors came.

It's also a good thing that all those once in a lifers are stupid, non-disercening bumpkins who can't tell when an animatronic is not working or when something is falling apart etc ...

How do arguments like the tourist one make sense? No. Don't answer. Rhetorical.

The fact of the matter is, that with no major additions to the Magic Kingdom in the last 17 years, Disney only has itself to blame for this poor excuse. Yes, Disneyland can get away with 2 year refurbishments on Space Mountain when it has additional E-Tickets over it's Orlando counterpart. Now of course the argument against that is that Orlando has additional parks, but with the Magic Kingdom as the flagship, and the parks not all neighboring one another there is a degree of importance in having additional attractions in the same park.

At the time Space Mountain in Disneyland went down for refurbishment they had at least 1, arguably two more E-Tickets (Indy and the Matterhorn) to offset the downed attraction. It also offers several other lower grade attractions in Fantasyland, as well as a more elaborate Toon Town.

Yes, Disneyland is a park for locals, and as a result it has more refurbs and seasonal changes, but it is also set up to better handle these down times, and I believe that, more than the locals/tourists argument is why we don't see the maintenance and seasonal overlays in WDW.

 

[Skyway]

I'm not saying this whole "DL vs WDW audience" justification for refurbs is the right thing to do. But it does make financial sense.

DL has to focus on quality to get their typical visitor --- a local --- to return multiple times a year (hence seasonal attractions like HMH)

The typical WDW visitor automatically buys multiple admission tickets--one for each park. A WDW visitor is not going to book a $1200+ vacation because Peter Pan got some new fiber optics. But they might if they see MK,Epcot,DHS,AK, and DTD got some new attractions.

DL vs WDW is truly about quality vs quantity. And I don't think either approach is a bad one. (DL visitors are blessed with a small number of high quality attractions. WDW guests have an enormous variety of pretty-dang-good attractions)