General Star Wars News

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
99.9% of SW fans are not harassing someone on socials because they played a character that was written poorly.
You know what else had some poorly written characters in them? The Hobbit trilogy and the Fantastic Beasts trilogy. Neither of them were highly received by fans of their respective franchises. However, fans OF those franchises never abandoned or declared their hatred for them just because there were films that were less well received than the best movies in the franchises. Only Star Wars "fans" react the way they react. And not all at that. Some are actually willing to say "eh-those last few movies were not the best but that's fine because there's enough to enjoy" rather than saying "I refuse to watch anything that Disney puts out now just because".
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
The Hobbit trilogy and the Fantastic Beasts trilogy. Neither of them were highly received by fans of their respective franchises. However, fans OF those franchises never abandoned or declared their hatred for them just because there were films that were less well received than the best movies in the franchises. Only Star Wars "fans" react the way they react.
I'm not sure this is accurate. The hobbit and fantastic beasts took a beating by fans. Star trek fans went off the absolute deep end after into darkness. Every major pop culture franchise has vocal fans who take things too far. Star wars might seem worse because it was by far the largest base. So you hear about the idiots more.
Some are actually willing to say "eh-those last few movies were not the best but that's fine because there's enough to enjoy" rather than saying "I refuse to watch anything that Disney puts out now just because".
I'd say most do this. Don't base your theory on YouTube channels or bloggers who's titles use owned, destroyed, obliterated, humiliated.... That doesn't represent the majority of fans.
 

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
I have yet to hear KK take any accountability for the sub par SW content. But never shys away from calling out fans

And they ( aka KK) are already blaming the "toxic fandom" for the failure of The Acolyte before it even comes out. Maybe not many want to buy the bread advertised as "fish flavored" when it arrives no matter how many paid preview rave reviews are published ? Producers of goods and services are not guaranteed that they will be purchased.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure this is accurate. The hobbit and fantastic beasts took a beating by fans. Star trek fans went off the absolute deep end after into darkness. Every major pop culture franchise has vocal fans who take things too far. Star wars might seem worse because it was by far the largest base. So you hear about the idiots more.

I'd say most do this. Don't base your theory on YouTube channels or bloggers who's titles use owned, destroyed, obliterated, humiliated.... That doesn't represent the majority of fans.
Read the post below yours. What do you call that sort of sentiment? And why does it seem to find its way into any (every?) online discussion about Star Wars?
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
And they ( aka KK) are already blaming the "toxic fandom" for the failure of The Acolyte before it even comes out. Maybe not many want to buy the bread advertised as "fish flavored" when it arrives no matter how many paid preview rave reviews are published ? Producers of goods and services are not guaranteed that they will be purchased.
Maybe she got the release date wrong?
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Read the post below yours. What do you call that sort of sentiment?
Wait, so the post below mine is representative of the entire fanbsse?
And why does it seem to find its way into any (every?) online discussion about Star Wars?
Notice you said online discussion, that's an important distinction. A very small portion of people can infiltrate every internet outlet they want to. In the words of Jyn Erso, make 10 men feel like a hundred. All the complaints of this "toxic fandom" all stem from online interactions. I can't remember any of the actors talking how terrible the fans are at any live event. They all say how wonderful the fans are to interact with. Again, I'm not saying that there aren't toxic fans. I just don't believe star wars fans are the worst, and all the other fandoms are angels like is implied on this site over and over.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
Wait, so the post below mine is representative of the entire fanbsse?
No, I’m saying that it’s common. In my experience, it happens more frequently than in other fandoms.
Notice you said online discussion, that's an important distinction. A very small portion of people can infiltrate every internet outlet they want to. In the words of Jyn Erso, make 10 men feel like a hundred. All the complaints of this "toxic fandom" all stem from online interactions.
Right. Online. And I think those online bad actors have an outsized influence.
I can't remember any of the actors talking how terrible the fans are at any live event. They all say how wonderful the fans are to interact with.
I was thinking of Kelly Marie Tran, Daisy Ridley, Ahmed Best, Kathleen Kennedy, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen, Simon Pegg, and Moses Ingram.
Again, I'm not saying that there aren't toxic fans. I just don't believe star wars fans are the worst, and all the other fandoms are angels like is implied on this site over and over.
No, I don’t think all other fandoms are angels. I know there are extremists and bad apples in every bunch.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure this is accurate. The hobbit and fantastic beasts took a beating by fans. Star trek fans went off the absolute deep end after into darkness. Every major pop culture franchise has vocal fans who take things too far. Star wars might seem worse because it was by far the largest base. So you hear about the idiots more.

I'd say most do this. Don't base your theory on YouTube channels or bloggers who's titles use owned, destroyed, obliterated, humiliated.... That doesn't represent the majority of fans.
They took beatings BUT not to the same extent. People didn't cry out loud about how the franchises were destroyed and how they'd never watch anything from them again. It is more accurate to say that not ever SW fan is living in depression because of how the ST turned out and some just want to wait until the next thing turns out.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Yes, I've seen all that. Again, online doesn't represent the fanbase as a whole. All those actors have been more than accepted by the greater fanbase in every live whatever I have ever seen. It's even come out from Llyods mom that star wars bullies had nothing to do with him leaving acting or his mental condition. She even said he wasn't really exposed to the criticism.
No, I don’t think all other fandoms are angels. I know there are extremists and bad apples in every bunch.
That's all I'm saying. And they seem to manifest in online form. For clicks, for shock value, because Disney is an easy target.
They took beatings BUT not to the same extent. People didn't cry out loud about how the franchises were destroyed and how they'd never watch anything from them again.
I guess you didn't follow star trek all that closely. I was shocked at how the fans reacted to into darkness. DC fans are right there too. Star wars is the grand daddy of nerd stuff. So like I said, it seems more prominent because star wars is so high profile. It's talked about and reported more. In my opinion the media has done the same thing as the click bait haters. They know star wars will draw eyes so what better way to get views than to paint a picture of how the fan base is destroying actors lives. How star wars fans are the most toxic in history... It's just easy on both sides to create controversy.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
You know what other difference there is between The Hobbit Trilogy and Fantastic Beasts vs. Star Wars? The creatives behind those films didn’t attack the fandom and accuse them of being terrible people just because they criticized a movie. Disney/Lucasfilm lumped everyone who had something to say with the smaller minority of fans that actually were bad actors and the situation they face now is the result.
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Some fun life size Star Wars stuff at Monsterpalooza this last weekend.

IMG_8578.jpg
IMG_8579.jpg
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
You know what other difference there is between The Hobbit Trilogy and Fantastic Beasts vs. Star Wars? The creatives behind those films didn’t attack the fandom and accuse them of being terrible people just because they criticized a movie. Disney/Lucasfilm lumped everyone who had something to say with the smaller minority of fans that actually were bad actors and the situation they face now is the result.
The Hobbit movies also didn't try to retcon the plot of the Lord of the Rings, or completely change popular characters to make the plot happen. Their main failing was just trying to stretch out not enough story over three films... "like not enough butter spread over too much bread."

Star Wars has made itself such an unwieldy mess of retcons and plot contrivances that I no longer care what's going on.
 

Dranth

Well-Known Member
I mean, I'm unsure what it is that many of the "haters" actually love about Star Wars. Because so many of them talk about how they loathe Kathleen Kennedy, turned on George Lucas, rejected the PT/ST, many don't even like the remastered OT films...
Apologies up front for the length of this...

I am not a hater in the sense you are talking about so I can't speak for that group specifically. I don't have any personal issues with KK and I very much appreciate the way she defends the people she works with but, having said that, there is no denying the results under her have been a mixed bag.

Setting KK aside, the recent posts got me thinking about the overall dissatisfaction amongst Star Wars fans in general and I believe where the frustration comes for people like myself is that Star Wars movies, starting with the PT, just got bad and they didn't need to be.

I don't go so far is to reject those movies, but the PT has some of the worst writing and acting ever committed to a mainstream film. Sure, it had some interesting nuggets here and there but then there was the complete nonsense like the force conceived virgin birth mess. Midichlorians and ridiculous prophecies that make no sense whatsoever. Making Anakin an unlikable whiny brat who has some seriously creepy and rancid vibes toward Padme.

Honestly, her falling for Anakin who was running around in stalker mode early in the movie to the point she had to tell him to back off multiple times followed up by him professing his love of fascism before running off to murder a whole village has got to be one of the least earned or convincing romances I have ever seen.

Speaking of Padme, my personal favorite is when she dies just because she feels like it. Really? She is just going to lay down and expire? She is such a quitter that she is going to orphan her newborn children in a world that is collapsing around everyone while their child murdering maniac father is running loose? Does that sound like the character they tried to develop for the previous two full movies and 7/8 of the last one?

Admittedly, the Clone Wars cartoons cleaned up a bunch of the plot holes and made that whole era more interesting but that doesn't change that the films were just not good.

As for the ST, they were just as bad but in different ways. They at least had good acting and mostly reasonable dialog, but the first one felt like lazy fan service. The second one seemed to be more concerned about being unpredictable than making a good movie. It did have some interesting ideas, but it never bothered to explore any of them. Lastly, RotS was an unmitigated dumpster fire of a movie that was designed to try and patchwork together the disjointed and directionless mess of the first two. It is also in a dead heat with AotC for the worst Star Wars movie ever made.

Finally, the OT remasters were bad because they actively changed things that didn't need to be changed and made the movies worse. Touching up effects is one thing and I think would have been received well but cutting out whole characters and replacing them with cartoonish CGI messes or dropping back in cut scenes and trying to use computers to make it work was jarring and completely unnecessary. Trying to change characters’ personalities through editing was also not a great move and don't get me started on changing the score.

Anyway, I know all that is a bit ranty but there is a reason many fans are unhappy. It isn’t that everyone is in the "I hate everything camp". There has been some very good Star Wars content under Disney but also a lot of bad and after the mess they left in their wake with the movies there just isn't a lot of trust that the current group can turn things around. They have the ability and have shown it in some cases but then turn around and do something that just leaves people scratching their head.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Apologies up front for the length of this...

I am not a hater in the sense you are talking about so I can't speak for that group specifically. I don't have any personal issues with KK and I very much appreciate the way she defends the people she works with but, having said that, there is no denying the results under her have been a mixed bag.

Setting KK aside, the recent posts got me thinking about the overall dissatisfaction amongst Star Wars fans in general and I believe where the frustration comes for people like myself is that Star Wars movies, starting with the PT, just got bad and they didn't need to be.

I don't go so far is to reject those movies, but the PT has some of the worst writing and acting ever committed to a mainstream film. Sure, it had some interesting nuggets here and there but then there was the complete nonsense like the force conceived virgin birth mess. Midichlorians and ridiculous prophecies that make no sense whatsoever. Making Anakin an unlikable whiny brat who has some seriously creepy and rancid vibes toward Padme.

Honestly, her falling for Anakin who was running around in stalker mode early in the movie to the point she had to tell him to back off multiple times followed up by him professing his love of fascism before running off to murder a whole village has got to be one of the least earned or convincing romances I have ever seen.

Speaking of Padme, my personal favorite is when she dies just because she feels like it. Really? She is just going to lay down and expire? She is such a quitter that she is going to orphan her newborn children in a world that is collapsing around everyone while their child murdering maniac father is running loose? Does that sound like the character they tried to develop for the previous two full movies and 7/8 of the last one?

Admittedly, the Clone Wars cartoons cleaned up a bunch of the plot holes and made that whole era more interesting but that doesn't change that the films were just not good.

As for the ST, they were just as bad but in different ways. They at least had good acting and mostly reasonable dialog, but the first one felt like lazy fan service. The second one seemed to be more concerned about being unpredictable than making a good movie. It did have some interesting ideas, but it never bothered to explore any of them. Lastly, RotS was an unmitigated dumpster fire of a movie that was designed to try and patchwork together the disjointed and directionless mess of the first two. It is also in a dead heat with AotC for the worst Star Wars movie ever made.

Finally, the OT remasters were bad because they actively changed things that didn't need to be changed and made the movies worse. Touching up effects is one thing and I think would have been received well but cutting out whole characters and replacing them with cartoonish CGI messes or dropping back in cut scenes and trying to use computers to make it work was jarring and completely unnecessary. Trying to change characters’ personalities through editing was also not a great move and don't get me started on changing the score.

Anyway, I know all that is a bit ranty but there is a reason many fans are unhappy. It isn’t that everyone is in the "I hate everything camp". There has been some very good Star Wars content under Disney but also a lot of bad and after the mess they left in their wake with the movies there just isn't a lot of trust that the current group can turn things around. They have the ability and have shown it in some cases but then turn around and do something that just leaves people scratching their head.

I think the handling of Star was since Jedi is the posterchild of how Hollywood ego and money motive can make simple things far too difficult
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
Good thoughts here. And just to be clear: because the prequel trilogy was helmed by George Lucas, I think it is indicative of what we would have got in the original trilogy if he'd had 1999 technology back in 1977.

In other words (and I'm a huge fan!), I think Star Wars was sort of a fluke? To me, this explains why there was literally no clear way to successfully "handle" further expansion of the franchise: nobody (not even the fans) can agree on what made it work in the first place.

And now, the fandom comprises fans of each PT, OT, ST, EU, animated series, D+ series, the different video games, etc. and it isn't one fandom, but a collection of multiple (some of them rivals).
 

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