1 out of 6 is still only 17% not near the 30-50% you have indicated in other posts. So the number is more likely 10-20% at WDW based on your own numbers.
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GAC to Become DAS
- Thread starter Animaniac93-98
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RichKermitFan
Active Member
So continuing from where we left off, what exactly is the legitimate argument against the proposed new system?
Spikerdink
Well-Known Member
I know there have been a few posters on the thread who have lamented the changes, so I would like to nicely pose this question:
In light of the known abuses of the GAC program, how would you revise the program to minimize abuses of the cards while providing for the families that you are concerned about.
I would be very interested in hearing what thier ideas are...
In light of the known abuses of the GAC program, how would you revise the program to minimize abuses of the cards while providing for the families that you are concerned about.
I would be very interested in hearing what thier ideas are...
sshindel
The Epcot Manifesto
Sharpen your knives everyone, I've got an opinion.
I don't care if there is abuse in this system. I don't care if it makes me wait longer. I will happily stand in line longer, even while undeserving people weasel ahead of me, if it means that people whose daily life is a struggle can have a "magical" time at the parks. Their life is a struggle every single day, their family's life is harder than mine will ever be, if they get special treatment at the Disney parks, GOOD.
Would I like the system to be tightened up to limit the abuse while providing access to those in need, yes, and I think that this change is likely in the right direction.
I don't care if there is abuse in this system. I don't care if it makes me wait longer. I will happily stand in line longer, even while undeserving people weasel ahead of me, if it means that people whose daily life is a struggle can have a "magical" time at the parks. Their life is a struggle every single day, their family's life is harder than mine will ever be, if they get special treatment at the Disney parks, GOOD.
Would I like the system to be tightened up to limit the abuse while providing access to those in need, yes, and I think that this change is likely in the right direction.
Some people have physical or mental disabilities that limit their time in the parks, so having the flexibility to get in as much as possible in the limited time they do has made doing Disney a possibility. The changes may mean those families will do less because while they don't have to wait in a line they are still waiting, and their time frame does not change. So for some there will be a point of diminishing returns on investment. Is it really worth it anymore when you might get in 2 rides and then have to leave.
At this point there is no point arguing against it, as it is happening (at least if this report is correct). I think the point some people are making is that for some there will be a negative effect on their ability to enjoy Disney as they do today,and that some may simply no longer be able to manage under the new system.
The GAC system worked well for those with disabilities because it was so wide open, however that left it open to abuse.
We can sit here and argue all we want about who should get what, but its a moot point now, as Disney has decided that whatever good the GAC did it has now been overshadowed by the abuse of its benefits by people who had no business having one.
I really would not want to be a CM at DLR/DCA the first weekend this is rolled out, because from all indications AP holders were the worst offenders and they generally have 30-60% AP holders as park guests at any time.
Because Disney does not have ability to ask for verification, there is no real way to keep the current system and crack down on abusers.
Although the picture and license requirement even if added to the current system would at least ensure that the person pictured has to ride the ride. But even the new system will do nothing to stop someone from claiming an illness they don't have and getting a card and a few extra FP's.
Lucky
Well-Known Member
But they don't want to.
They're also well within their rights to implement the DAS. Obviously that's what they want to do.
And everyone has to accept that, not just people who think the changes go too far but also the people who think they don't go far enough (and those are actually the people who are doing most of the complaining on this thread).
Tom Morrow
Well-Known Member
I said, or at least I think I said, 30 to as high as 50% of people entering the Fastpass queue are using GAC. 50% is pretty high, but it does happen. In the end, an average of 1 out of every 6 to 10 people riding a given attraction using a GAC to go through the Fastpass is still staggeringly high.
arko said:
The problem is no one is entitled to do a "set" number of attractions per day. And while it is disappointing that a disability may prevent someone from experiencing the parks to their maximum enjoyment, it is unfortunately just a fact of life. Even people without disabilities have different limits that may restrict how much of the parks they experience in a day. Disney, just simply, cannot accomodate everyone's limitations. The DAS is about physical access to the attractions and how it can be accomplished reasonably for the guest in question. While Disney (and other businesses) must try to accomodate a guest with disabilities, it is not their responsibility to cater to them, and disabled people should know their limitations and adjust accordingly.
They can, but choose not to. The ADA doesn't explicitly restrict businesses from requiring proof. Employers and schools require proof all the time. By extension a business can technically require proof. Most businesses do not because most of the requested accomodations are relatively inexpensive and easy to provide. Plus for most businesses it's not worth the hassle to question people. There is also nothing in the law that prevents a business from inquiring as to the nature of a disability (a business needs to know how to make an accomodation), so Disney can technically tell guests with back problems that the DAS cannot be used on rides such as Space Mountain or BTMRR.
Disney's legal obligation is to accomodate physical access to boarding a ride (attraction). If a child or adult cannot physically stand in line because he may harm himself or others due to a mental disability, Disney's obligation is NOT to grant immediate boarding access, but merely accommodate the disability by allowing him/her to board without a wait in the confined queue. If a child or adult cannot physically stand in line for physical reasons, Disney is obligated to provide a method for them to be able to board the ride, either by wheelchair through the queue (or through an accessible entrance), but they aren't obligated to grant anyone immediate access.
It's clear to me that people most upset with the new policy are upset because they are losing an advantage they had. To me, the posts are coming across as entitled. That being disabled entitles them to a better experience than those without a disability, and to argue with them is met with a response of "live in my shoes".
No doubt. There's no way to completely eliminate abuse. And much of the abuse that it will eliminate is solely dependent on enforcement by CMs.
tmstephe
Active Member
Here's an idea... how about you wait and see how the new system works before you feel punished. Hopefully it will work out fabulously for you and your daughter. I hope your family is able to have a magical vacation, but not at the expense of my family. MY children get hot, tired, crabby, and hungry too. We don't get to see/do everything, because that's the reality of being at WDW with young children. I can either accept the current conditions, or choose not to go to WDW. You have the same right and privilege.
tmstephe
Active Member
I think people have been, for lack of a better workd, spoiled by the current system a bit.
As parents of disabled children, we need to take on some responsbility to meet Disney half way on some of these things.
I use GAC for my son, but I also use it to teach him time awareness and patience. When we first began taking him to WDW, he loved it but he was combative when faced with waits and we had some of those embarrasing/frightening moments of judgmental onlookers. But, no one can take that in stride better than a parent of a child with disabilities.
So, after our first trip I speant the next two years exposing my son to videos and music of rides and attractions that rarely have a wait. I play the tomorrowland BGM in his room at night to sleep to so he develops an attachment to TTA. I show him videos of LWTL and Country Bears and get him to develop a love for those rides. On our next trip we were able to use GAC for his obsessions (Pooh, Pirates, IASW) and mix them up with minimal waits on the aforementioned TTA, LWTL, etc...
With each trip we try to expand his horizons to new rides with slightly longer waits. This last trip (his 5th) he stood in a 25 minute line for Pooh (thank goodness for interative qeueues and those disgusting touch screens) and sat 30 minutes to get a front row seat for MSEP. He loves MSEP and we told him if he sat quietly and waited he'd get to see it without being blocked by other people. And I'll be damned if he didn't sit there patiently the whole time and got a huge smile on his face when those floats rolled by right in front of him. It was one of my proudest moments and something my wife and I would have never imagined possible 6 years ago.
I thank Disney for their GAC program. It has helped me teach my son concepts I never thought possible. But I have also always understood that it is there to help him overcome his hardship, not to make it easy for him. I know all cases are different, and my method took/takes a lot of work. But the payoff is well worth it. My son still has his moments and it is by no means easy. But he loves WDW more than anything, the GAC/DAS has made that love possible. The last thing I would want is to see that destroyed by abusers. So, I accept the changes as a necesarry evil to keep the system functioning. No way around it.
You sound like an amazing parent and I'm sure you are rightfully proud of your son. Thank you for this clear, level-headed post.
minninedaisy74
Active Member
You are exactly right and 20 years ago these types of excessive accommodations would have been un heard of. I am sure this new policy will not affect Disney's bottom line in the slightest and in the end that is really what a company their size is worried about.
tmstephe
Active Member
This.
IWantMyMagicBand
Well-Known Member
Amazed nobody has quoted George Orwell yet.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Ok, what happens when those people whose daily life is a struggle is less magical at the parks because of the weasels?
Is there any limit to how many weasels you are comfortable ignoring?
It's simple really.. if everyone is in the 'special' line.. that line isn't so special anymore and suffers similar waits and setbacks.
It's not just the non-users that are impacted, but the needy are impacted as well.
well according to the latest census 1 in 5 Americans has some sort of long term disability. Now this does not mean that all those would or should use a GAC, but 1 in 6 in a FP line using a GAC is not as high as it sounds. Also that 1 in 6 is not all abusers. Lets take a theoretical 50% of all GAC users are abusing the system, which is pretty high, that means 1 in 12 people in the FP line should not be there.
The problem is once the abuse became publicized it was too late to do anything but limit it because an easy internet search tells anyone how to do it.
Which simply that while 1 out of 12 being abusers now isn't so bad now it will only get worse.
From all indications the DCA/DLR situation is much worse because it seem its basically a standard for AP holders to go get one every visit, and with 900000 AP holders making up as much as 60% of daily guest traffic, that can't be good.
Spikerdink
Well-Known Member
With many people saying Disney should require 'proof' someone has an illness/disability/etc, there can be issues there also. In the newspapers here in NY over the past few years are stories of doctors who write prescriptions for oxycodone and other pain killers without ever seeing the patient. For a fee, these doctors would write the prescription and the abuser would get another 90 day supply of pills. How long before a person finds a doctor to write out a phony 'Johnny needs a pass' for a few bucks, or just a favor because mom asked nicely?
Granted, this could be a small incidence, but what I am looking for [especially from those who are emphatically stating that the new policy is going to be an extreme negative impact on enjoyment of the parks] are ideas for what Disney could do to ensure the ultimate in fairness while clamping down on the abuses.
Granted, this could be a small incidence, but what I am looking for [especially from those who are emphatically stating that the new policy is going to be an extreme negative impact on enjoyment of the parks] are ideas for what Disney could do to ensure the ultimate in fairness while clamping down on the abuses.
Monty
Brilliant...and Canadian
- In the Parks
- No
I wish people could get beyond the "rights" thing, it's not about what Disney is legally required to do. They have always gone leaps and bounds beyond what's required. They presumably did so because it was either good for business or just the right thing to do for their guests (I suspect the former).
Now it's been pointed out that there has been rampant abuse and they're trying to fix it to stop the abuse. I'm pretty sure it's still good for business to go above and beyond what's legally required, the question remains the "how".
I'm convinced what's been proposed is not a good choice to deal with the abuse while continuing to go above and beyond, but that's just my opinion. I've already posted a suggested solution that would leverage the new MagicBands to maintain the current good aspects of the GACs for legitimately disabled users while removing much of the incentive to cheat. Hopefully Disney will evolve their plans going forward.
Now it's been pointed out that there has been rampant abuse and they're trying to fix it to stop the abuse. I'm pretty sure it's still good for business to go above and beyond what's legally required, the question remains the "how".
I'm convinced what's been proposed is not a good choice to deal with the abuse while continuing to go above and beyond, but that's just my opinion. I've already posted a suggested solution that would leverage the new MagicBands to maintain the current good aspects of the GACs for legitimately disabled users while removing much of the incentive to cheat. Hopefully Disney will evolve their plans going forward.
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