GAC to Become DAS

[luv]

Oh, they understand what it all means. They have an internet, they know how to join a forum, it is 2013. They come barging in with guns blazing.

I didn't read what happend, I tried so just now to satisfy my bloodthirsty craving for internet drama, but I noticed her account has disappeared. Me thinks it was a DL then.

What's a DL?

 

[luv]

I loved Spenser For Hire. I have read every single book in the series. RIP Robert B. Parker.
I even named my eldest son Spenser. That's "Spenser, with an 'S', like the poet".

Whoops! Sorry. Spenser. Don't send Hawk after me! I won't lie again!!

Spenser was cool, but Hawk was The Man.

 

[mr spalding]

It may be a total coincidence that right before Disney had to clear the excess people from their FP lines to make way for FPP, there was a big brouhaha over "rich people" taking advantage of GACs so they could get on IASW immediately while everyone else waited two and half hours. I knew that story was BS immediately. I also knew they were using "rich people" to get most of America to say, "Yeah! Bad!" and be totally on the side of stopping the abuse.

I question that story as well especially since all it took to get a GAC was to request one. I don't see a rich person paying for something when they could have gotten it for free.

 

[pais]

It may be a total coincidence that right before Disney had to clear the excess people from their FP lines to make way for FPP, there was a big brouhaha over "rich people" taking advantage of GACs so they could get on IASW immediately while everyone else waited two and half hours. I knew that story was BS immediately. I also knew they were using "rich people" to get most of America to say, "Yeah! Bad!" and be totally on the side of stopping the abuse. I couldn't figure out why, though.

And since when are 'the rich' immune to autism or disabilities in general? The media will feed people what they want to hear to incite them.

 

[pais]

Meanwhile, back in Orlando, Autism Hippie has announced on her Facebook page that she will be taking her son to Universal Studios Florida tomorrow (Monday) for the first time. Let's see how this goes for her...

I can't wait to hear if she'll be joining a class action suit against Universal. Doesn't Universal have the exact same disabled policy as DAS?

 

[BroganMc]

That isn't good. I didn't realize this would impact guests in wheelchairs too. I thought the GAC and wheelchair guests were 2 different systems. So under the new system will a guest in a wheelchair need to get a DAS and come back at a reserved time or will they still be able to just use the alternate or ADA accessible entrance? This is all so confusing.

It's far worse than that. Wheelchair guests are specifically told they are not allowed to get a DAS card. Their disability is taken care of with wheels alone. So unless they have another issue that makes waiting in a Standby queue difficult, they are told to go to Standby or get a FP like everyone else. Then once they proceed through one of those lines they then are allowed to go to the special ride vehicle line where they wait extra.

That was the major flaw I saw with DAS before it was implemented. All the Ride CMs I talked to in WDW told me the only change I'd see is getting a Return Time to get in my wheelchair line (I'm one of those wheelchair-bound people who doesn't transfer and obviously looks physically disabled). I knew the way the rules were written I'd have difficulties getting a DAS card. And the first day I went to ask I was proved correct. I was initially denied on the basis DAS was for the autistic only, but I challenged that assertion (on the grounds it was just such an outrageous discriminatory thing to say). Then I had a devil of a time explaining why I wanted to stay out of that Standby queue for my own safety. The Guest Relation CM just assumed my having a wheelchair was sufficient accommodation. A great many wheelchair-bound guests are having the same problems. Issues such as poor stamina, fragile bodies, visual impairment are being ignored under DAS.

Having to incur the longer wait for the wheelchair vehicles is why I have been so critical of DAS as being a "fair and equal" system under ADA rules. DAS' main principle is that it creates a system where all guests wait for an attraction the same amount of time. But as soon as you factor in the lack of availability of accessible vehicles (fire code regulations keep them down to 1-2 per attraction for emergency evacuation concens) and extra time for that one vehicle to cycle around in the line of all inaccessible vehicles, you are forcing these disabled guests to ALWAYS have an unequal wait time to every other guest. That defies the spirit of DAS.

I did time trials for TSM under GAC and DAS. It showed that under either system I waited between 10-20 minutes longer than guests not in the wheelchair line. The minimum wait for me at TSM (assuming no one is currently in the wheelchair queue ahead of me) is 6-10 minutes from the front of the line. This is the time it takes to cycle the one wheelchair car around (6 mins), time to breakdown the vehicle and prepare it for my wheelchair (2mins), and time to put my wheelchair vehicle back in the ride cycle (2-3 mins). Every guest in front of me increases my wait time by that same amount. This explains why it will take an hour to clear a line of 10 parties while the regular queue takes about 10 minutes to clear the same amount of guests.

That's a significant burden of time applied only to disabled guests that may be actionable under the law. Just need a clever lawyer to gather enough evidence showing these sorts of guests must spend longer to achieve the same things as non-disabled guests and thus can do fewer things in the allotted time of park hours. Disney has shown with their FastPass system that "wait time" is part of the theme park experience. It should therefore be something equally applied to all guests regardless of age or ability.

I'm not the type who sues so it's not something I'd do. Ideally I'd just like Disney to recognize these kinds of guests should be given consideration and allowed to at least get a DAS without hassle. Why must they have to also have an issue that makes being in a Standby queue hard?

What I found ironic is that so many people (in this thread and at WDW) assumed with DAS they'd see more people who looked like they were disabled (i.e. in wheelchairs or mobility-challenged) than GAC. Few believed me when I pointed out that actually you'd see more people looking perfectly healthy while those they thought looked "truly" disabled would be forced into lines with them.

The focus on this thread has been the Autustic who probably did use GAC as a "front of the line" pass. What bugs me is that the wheelchair folks have been thrown under the bus so much. And now I'm reading about the visually-impaired who are not being accommodated at all. Disney has a lot of tweaking to do. DAS only answers one problem and that's why it is so inherently flawed. Disability is not a one size fits all.

I'm optimistic though. The issue of Wait Times may just be something that gets a hard look under ADA the way room reservations and recreational pool access was. (For those of you unaware, before a year ago if you needed an accessible room or wanted to go to a pool/jacuzzi you'd have to arrange your access with a special department or staff. They changed ADA rules so now all disabled guests can book their accessible rooms online like everyone else and every recreational pool must have two forms of access: bump steps, zero entry and/or pool lift. That means I can book my room online and go to the hot tub any time I wish like every other Disney guest. Before this change I had to allot an additional 30-60 minutes just to arrange the special access.)

** Most hilarious experience I ever had with getting this special access was in London when I tried to visit the Banqueting Hall. They had an elevator for wheelchair users but I was told "only the Queen uses it". In that case I was turned away because I wasn't "royal enough".

 

[JerseyDad]

Meanwhile, back in Orlando, Autism Hippie has announced on her Facebook page that she will be taking her son to Universal Studios Florida tomorrow (Monday) for the first time. Let's see how this goes for her...

....well ....I see that going two possible ways:

1. She whoops it up as a more rewarding experience that Disney ...is made an official spokesperson for Universal and is given lifetime free access with unlimited FOTL passes and her own private park escorts that roll out a red carpet before her and sprinkle rose petals for her to trample upon.
2. Or ....she and her boy are led away in handcuffs.

....it could happen ...really ...it could.

 

[pais]

It's far worse than that. Wheelchair guests are specifically told they are not allowed to get a DAS card. Their disability is taken care of with wheels alone. So unless they have another issue that makes waiting in a Standby queue difficult, they are told to go to Standby or get a FP like everyone else. Then once they proceed through one of those lines they then are allowed to go to the special ride vehicle line where they wait extra.

That was the major flaw I saw with DAS before it was implemented. All the Ride CMs I talked to in WDW told me the only change I'd see is getting a Return Time to get in my wheelchair line (I'm one of those wheelchair-bound people who doesn't transfer and obviously looks physically disabled). I knew the way the rules were written I'd have difficulties getting a DAS card. And the first day I went to ask I was proved correct. I was initially denied on the basis DAS was for the autistic only, but I challenged that assertion (on the grounds it was just such an outrageous discriminatory thing to say). Then I had a devil of a time explaining why I wanted to stay out of that Standby queue for my own safety. The Guest Relation CM just assumed my having a wheelchair was sufficient accommodation. A great many wheelchair-bound guests are having the same problems. Issues such as poor stamina, fragile bodies, visual impairment are being ignored under DAS.

Having to incur the longer wait for the wheelchair vehicles is why I have been so critical of DAS as being a "fair and equal" system under ADA rules. DAS' main principle is that it creates a system where all guests wait for an attraction the same amount of time. But as soon as you factor in the lack of availability of accessible vehicles (fire code regulations keep them down to 1-2 per attraction for emergency evacuation concens) and extra time for that one vehicle to cycle around in the line of all inaccessible vehicles, you are forcing these disabled guests to ALWAYS have an unequal wait time to every other guest. That defies the spirit of DAS.

I did time trials for TSM under GAC and DAS. It showed that under either system I waited between 10-20 minutes longer than guests not in the wheelchair line. The minimum wait for me at TSM (assuming no one is currently in the wheelchair queue ahead of me) is 6-10 minutes from the front of the line. This is the time it takes to cycle the one wheelchair car around (6 mins), time to breakdown the vehicle and prepare it for my wheelchair (2mins), and time to put my wheelchair vehicle back in the ride cycle (2-3 mins). Every guest in front of me increases my wait time by that same amount. This explains why it will take an hour to clear a line of 10 parties while the regular queue takes about 10 minutes to clear the same amount of guests.

That's a significant burden of time applied only to disabled guests that may be actionable under the law. Just need a clever lawyer to gather enough evidence showing these sorts of guests must spend longer to achieve the same things as non-disabled guests and thus can do fewer things in the allotted time of park hours. Disney has shown with their FastPass system that "wait time" is part of the theme park experience. It should therefore be something equally applied to all guests regardless of age or ability.

I'm not the type who sues so it's not something I'd do. Ideally I'd just like Disney to recognize these kinds of guests should be given consideration and allowed to at least get a DAS without hassle. Why must they have to also have an issue that makes being in a Standby queue hard?

What I found ironic is that so many people (in this thread and at WDW) assumed with DAS they'd see more people who looked like they were disabled (i.e. in wheelchairs or mobility-challenged) than GAC. Few believed me when I pointed out that actually you'd see more people looking perfectly healthy while those they thought looked "truly" disabled would be forced into lines with them.

The focus on this thread has been the Autustic who probably did use GAC as a "front of the line" pass. What bugs me is that the wheelchair folks have been thrown under the bus so much. And now I'm reading about the visually-impaired who are not being accommodated at all. Disney has a lot of tweaking to do. DAS only answers one problem and that's why it is so inherently flawed. Disability is not a one size fits all.

I'm optimistic though. The issue of Wait Times may just be something that gets a hard look under ADA the way room reservations and recreational pool access was. (For those of you unaware, before a year ago if you needed an accessible room or wanted to go to a pool/jacuzzi you'd have to arrange your access with a special department or staff. They changed ADA rules so now all disabled guests can book their accessible rooms online like everyone else and every recreational pool must have two forms of access: bump steps, zero entry and/or pool lift. That means I can book my room online and go to the hot tub any time I wish like every other Disney guest. Before this change I had to allot an additional 30-60 minutes just to arrange the special access.)

** Most hilarious experience I ever had with getting this special access was in London when I tried to visit the Banqueting Hall. They had an elevator for wheelchair users but I was told "only the Queen uses it". In that case I was turned away because I wasn't "royal enough".

Honestly, I'm for all of the changes but I really don't want people like you (you said "I'm one of those wheelchair-bound people who doesn't transfer and obviously looks physically disabled') to have to wait in standby. I saw another site where a woman with a little girl who was on a walker was waiting in line (and she wasn't complaining either). It's a shame that the true nature of the GAC has been destroyed by various groups of people, from the fakers to the abusers.

 

[Pixie VaVoom]

Not quite how it works. There are (and this is over generalizing for the sake of making it clear) two types of folks with autism. Sensory seekers and sensory sensitive. Sensory sensitive people react negatively to most loud/extreme stimuli and would never last in a theme park. Sensory seekers find joy in the movement, music, and lights a theme park provides. The hyper-stimulation actually focuses them more than in normal life and you will sometimes see extreme advances in behavior as they try learn to communicate. My mostly (at the time)non-verbal son spoke one of his first full sentences at age 3 because we were walking by IASW and he wanted to go on it. From that moment on, we began taking him yearly, and every year he does something in WDW that he would never do at home. He speaks more coherently, interacts more typically, and is generally less stressed than he is at home (anxiety and intense stress are one of the unfortunate side-effects of autism). When we come back, his teachers note an uptick in his school performance for 3-4 weeks afterward.

So, quite the contrary to your point, it isn't something all people with autism would want to avoid, many see large benefits outside of the typical fun of a theme park and use it as educational therapy. I wouldn't give up my son's yearly trips for the world. WDW is one of the most effective ways we have found to improve his life skills in 7 years of dealing with his autism (and we have tried ALOT of different therapies).

I agree with 'mergatroid" you sound like a very sentitive and terrific, proactive, involved parent and definitely one of the second batch that I described. I have spent years working the special needs classes at my mega-church and have seen soooo many of the other kind. I realize that Autism has a FULL spectrum, and would not for the world deny YOUR child the growth experience, but some others maybe need to take a second think!!!

 

[GoofGoof]

It's far worse than that. Wheelchair guests are specifically told they are not allowed to get a DAS card. Their disability is taken care of with wheels alone. So unless they have another issue that makes waiting in a Standby queue difficult, they are told to go to Standby or get a FP like everyone else. Then once they proceed through one of those lines they then are allowed to go to the special ride vehicle line where they wait extra.

That was the major flaw I saw with DAS before it was implemented. All the Ride CMs I talked to in WDW told me the only change I'd see is getting a Return Time to get in my wheelchair line (I'm one of those wheelchair-bound people who doesn't transfer and obviously looks physically disabled). I knew the way the rules were written I'd have difficulties getting a DAS card. And the first day I went to ask I was proved correct. I was initially denied on the basis DAS was for the autistic only, but I challenged that assertion (on the grounds it was just such an outrageous discriminatory thing to say). Then I had a devil of a time explaining why I wanted to stay out of that Standby queue for my own safety. The Guest Relation CM just assumed my having a wheelchair was sufficient accommodation. A great many wheelchair-bound guests are having the same problems. Issues such as poor stamina, fragile bodies, visual impairment are being ignored under DAS.

Having to incur the longer wait for the wheelchair vehicles is why I have been so critical of DAS as being a "fair and equal" system under ADA rules. DAS' main principle is that it creates a system where all guests wait for an attraction the same amount of time. But as soon as you factor in the lack of availability of accessible vehicles (fire code regulations keep them down to 1-2 per attraction for emergency evacuation concens) and extra time for that one vehicle to cycle around in the line of all inaccessible vehicles, you are forcing these disabled guests to ALWAYS have an unequal wait time to every other guest. That defies the spirit of DAS.

I did time trials for TSM under GAC and DAS. It showed that under either system I waited between 10-20 minutes longer than guests not in the wheelchair line. The minimum wait for me at TSM (assuming no one is currently in the wheelchair queue ahead of me) is 6-10 minutes from the front of the line. This is the time it takes to cycle the one wheelchair car around (6 mins), time to breakdown the vehicle and prepare it for my wheelchair (2mins), and time to put my wheelchair vehicle back in the ride cycle (2-3 mins). Every guest in front of me increases my wait time by that same amount. This explains why it will take an hour to clear a line of 10 parties while the regular queue takes about 10 minutes to clear the same amount of guests.

That's a significant burden of time applied only to disabled guests that may be actionable under the law. Just need a clever lawyer to gather enough evidence showing these sorts of guests must spend longer to achieve the same things as non-disabled guests and thus can do fewer things in the allotted time of park hours. Disney has shown with their FastPass system that "wait time" is part of the theme park experience. It should therefore be something equally applied to all guests regardless of age or ability.

I'm not the type who sues so it's not something I'd do. Ideally I'd just like Disney to recognize these kinds of guests should be given consideration and allowed to at least get a DAS without hassle. Why must they have to also have an issue that makes being in a Standby queue hard?

What I found ironic is that so many people (in this thread and at WDW) assumed with DAS they'd see more people who looked like they were disabled (i.e. in wheelchairs or mobility-challenged) than GAC. Few believed me when I pointed out that actually you'd see more people looking perfectly healthy while those they thought looked "truly" disabled would be forced into lines with them.

The focus on this thread has been the Autustic who probably did use GAC as a "front of the line" pass. What bugs me is that the wheelchair folks have been thrown under the bus so much. And now I'm reading about the visually-impaired who are not being accommodated at all. Disney has a lot of tweaking to do. DAS only answers one problem and that's why it is so inherently flawed. Disability is not a one size fits all.

I'm optimistic though. The issue of Wait Times may just be something that gets a hard look under ADA the way room reservations and recreational pool access was. (For those of you unaware, before a year ago if you needed an accessible room or wanted to go to a pool/jacuzzi you'd have to arrange your access with a special department or staff. They changed ADA rules so now all disabled guests can book their accessible rooms online like everyone else and every recreational pool must have two forms of access: bump steps, zero entry and/or pool lift. That means I can book my room online and go to the hot tub any time I wish like every other Disney guest. Before this change I had to allot an additional 30-60 minutes just to arrange the special access.)

** Most hilarious experience I ever had with getting this special access was in London when I tried to visit the Banqueting Hall. They had an elevator for wheelchair users but I was told "only the Queen uses it". In that case I was turned away because I wasn't "royal enough".

Maybe this is over simplifying things, but why not have 2 independent systems? 1 for wheelchair guests using the wheelchair accessible cars and DAS for other disabilities for guests who can use the regular ride vehicles but can't wait in line. The whole point in the change is to try to cut back on abuse. If the wait at the wheelchair eligible loading area is longer anyway that's not where the abuse is occurring.

 

[GoofGoof]

Meanwhile, back in Orlando, Autism Hippie has announced on her Facebook page that she will be taking her son to Universal Studios Florida tomorrow (Monday) for the first time. Let's see how this goes for her...

Wait until she sees able bodied guests staying at the deluxe resorts walk right to the front of the line while she is waiting for her return time. Could get ugly.

 

[Gomer]

I have spent years working the special needs classes at my mega-church and have seen soooo many of the other kind. I realize that Autism has a FULL spectrum, and would not for the world deny YOUR child the growth experience, but some others maybe need to take a second think!!!

It can be hard to tell the difference through quick or superficial interaction. Sensory issues in Autism have been likened to an exposed nerve. To them everything is more intense and harsher. I've heard it described as the feeling of walking out of a dark theater into a bright day, where the sun seems like its painful to look at. Bright lights can be too intense, a simple conversation sounds like you have 70 people in a crowded room talking all at once. This is what WDW is like to them. Very intense and very difficult to focus. Sensory seekers will find ways to enjoy that intensity. But that doesn't mean is easy. The first 24 hours or so in WDW are always rough with my son as he acclimates. If you were to see him on that day, you might accuse me of being one of those people who shouldn't have my son in WDW. Once he gets in his groove, he couldn't be happier. This is why we will never take short trips. He needs time to adjust to the higher level of sensory input

Anyway, my point is, a snapshot of the child's behavior won't tell the whole story. The parents know their kids and know what they can handle. If you are a decent parent, you will know if WDW is too much for your child. But if you see someone there and their kid looks stressed or unhappy, trust that the parent knows what they are doing. No decent human being will torture their kid and pay thousands of dollars for the trouble. Why would we? If we're there, we are because we know that they can handle it and that the pay off will be worth it to the child.

 

[flynnibus]

I note, she ignores me, and doesn't post...so what was the point?

Let it go....

 

[flynnibus]

I question that story as well especially since all it took to get a GAC was to request one. I don't see a rich person paying for something when they could have gotten it for free.

Having money to blow doesn't mean you know everything. It just means you can afford to spend the money. People pay for the tour guides for other things as well.. and many just didn't know how to game the GAC system. People would sell that knowledge.. just like people sell CDs of things you can just download off the web yourself, etc.

 

[minninedaisy74]

Wait until she sees able bodied guests staying at the deluxe resorts walk right to the front of the line while she is waiting for her return time. Could get ugly.

Apparently they have rolled out the red carpet for her and she is now in looovvvveee Universal and as she puts it the best GAC ever made!!!!! Go check it out!!!

 

[JerseyDad]

Apparently they have rolled out the red carpet for her and she is now in looovvvveee Universal and as she puts it the best GAC ever made!!!!! Go check it out!!!

....let them roll out a red carpet ...and red chair ...red bed ...in a red room with red curtains .....all fitting amenities for a media whre.

 

[Bolt]

Having to use GAC for a child who broke their leg right before our trip last year there are 2 problems with this statement. First of all on Toy Story there is a total different line for GAC with designated cars for that line. One lucky night we were able to ride 2x in a row. We felt bad since there was a long line for the normal line. The cast members said not to worry about it, they couldn't move them over any way, it would just go through empty if we didn't ride it again. Few days later we waited an hour, not complaining just saying, because there was a large group of GAC in front of us and only a few cars that could be used at a time. Plus with non-transfers it takes awhile to assemble and reassemble the special wheelchair cars.
2nd problem is that you can't always tell who is disabled by looking at them. Yes, probably were abusing but don't always assume.
If we go again I may need special assistance as I have a couple herniated discs in my back that are getting worse. I may not 'look' like I need it but standing in line is not going to be an option any more for me.

There isn't a GAC designated car. There is a vehicle designed for wheelchairs/transferring from wheelchairs. GAC used FastPass at DHS unless you needed special assistance.

 

[wm49rs]

....let them roll out a red carpet ...and red chair ...red bed ...in a red room with red curtains .....all fitting amenities for a media whre.

As much as I'm not a huge fan of the term, the fact she's started a blog and Twitter account all within the past 90 days does tell me she's working hard to raise her social media profile. Facts I'm sure were not lost on Universal either....

 

[JerseyDad]

As much as I'm not a huge fan of the term, the fact she's started a blog and Twitter account all within the past 90 days does tell me she's working hard to raise her social media profile. A fact I'm sure wasn't lost on Universal either....

....I had to think thrice before assigning the 'term' to the person's actions (in all seriousness) ...but I too noticed how all these "advocates" have recently formed blogs, FB pages, websites ...etc. They're in desperate search for their "15 minutes" ....under the guise of being the "voices of helpful reason".

 

[wm49rs]

....I had to think thrice before assigning the 'term' to the person's actions (in all seriousness) ...but I too noticed how all these "advocates" have recently formed blogs, FB pages, websites ...etc. They're in desperate search for their "15 minutes" ....under the guise of being the "voices of helpful reason".

Fifteen minutes and whatever slice of the class-action pie they can get. An unfortunate (but probably not unexpected) reaction to change....